Should I use zMax

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: Spyder7

I never could grasp why the small group of BITOGERs who are totally anti-additive (of any type) waste so much of their time trolling forums that are exclusively about additives to preach their own beliefs to the rest of us. I frankly could care less what someone with no experience with a product, and probably very limited knowledge of it as well
-Spyder


Are you kidding?

If there is any "preaching" going on about the almighty additives, its from those who pump 'em up as the latest/greatest miracle in a can.

Besides, even if, I mean even IF too many to suit you were posting against additives, what the heck is this (and other forums like it) there for? Discussion of the topics! Do you want a pro-additive only site?

There is a difference between those who are anti additive because they used them long enough to conclude that they don't work. And those who are because they've read what the former have posted and accept it as Gospel. Rather hard to belong to the former though, as you would have to use every exsisting additive long enough to show they don't work.

And the latter is nothing more than jumping on a bandwagon which saves one the trouble of finding out for themselves.

Spyder tried Zmax. It didn't impress him. That carries more credibility than if he just said it doesn't work, yet never used it.

In my case, I jumped on that bandwagon. But when a long time member started talking about it, I tried it. And I like it. It cleared for good what MMO could only do on a temporary basis.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: Spyder7

I never could grasp why the small group of BITOGERs who are totally anti-additive (of any type) waste so much of their time trolling forums that are exclusively about additives to preach their own beliefs to the rest of us. I frankly could care less what someone with no experience with a product, and probably very limited knowledge of it as well
-Spyder


Are you kidding?

No, that was not kidding. I really don't grasp how people who are adamantly opposed to putting oil additives, fuel additives, or both, in their vehicles, could think on any level that they have anything worth contributing to a discussion about those topics. To me it is simply trolling.

If I'm a PC user who thinks that Apple computers are overpriced, worthless hype boxes, would posting that on a forum about Apple computers going to be any way a productive post in such a forum. How long do you think I'd last on such a forum before the admins tired of the trolling and threw me off? And rightly so.

To me, the archetypal example is exactly what I described in my post: someone who doesn't believe any of them have any use at all and equates their usage to flushing money down a toilet. In a forum within BITOG devoted solely to oil additives, such as this one, members who feel this way have no reason to bother reading this forum - this they think they're [censored] - and posting to that effect, unless their only point is to troll the thread and turn it into a discussion about whether oil additives in general have any use or are just a waste of time and money.

Its not relevant. People post and read this forum because they're curious about a specific additive, or they have some sort of engine issue they're looking for advice on which additive - if any - might be best to try on it, and why.

The people who are posting these topics aren't benefiting at all from someone saying additives are all a waste of money. I could - if my hypothetical example I felt that way, post the same thing about Apple computers anytime a question relating to it was asked on an Apple forum.

Again - how long would that be tolerated? In way does this belief offer anything of substance to Apple users? Its trolling. Period.

Are people really so clueless to think that hasn't been posted a thousand times before? Or is it that they do, but they just need to air that useless point anyway?

Its a pet peeve because, IMO, it has no place on this particular forum of BITOG. It offers nothing original and nothing of substance. It derails discussions and hijacks threads. Its trolling and its been done to death already.

Quote:

If there is any "preaching" going on about the almighty additives, its from those who pump 'em up as the latest/greatest miracle in a can.


You are very poorly read on the topics in this opinion if that's your take on the threads here. There is no group think to preach, and no consensus agreed upon on any specific additive here. That's partly why I read and post mainly in the additive forums: with the exception of the type of post mentioned above, the discussions are often interesting, and people are able to recount from experience how well a particular additive worked for them (or didn't) and what they thought of it overall.

This is "informed debate," with the subject under discussion being informed by the personal experience with the additive in question, and often times with them able to relate it to other additives used to make comparisons, and thereby make the thread interesting and informational.

"I have no experience with additive x, as I use nothing but motor oil in my engines and that's all they ever see... blah blah blah" (this, in one flavor or another, is the pet peeve) tells me the person knows nothing about the subject, and in stating their bias it reveals they have no reason to learn anything about the subject as their mind is made up. Therefore they have zero to contribute and I could care less what they believe. To me they come off as trolls and I lose any respect for any member I see spouting this useless 'information' in the additive forums.

-Spyder

 

[Johnny]

Well, you should work 12 hour shifts more often. Well said.

 

[TurboJim]

Originally Posted By: Johnny
Well said.

Agreed.

 

[keesue]

Agreed

 

[keesue]

except the 12 hour shift part.

 

[Spyder7]

I usually do 12 hours shifts, that particular post was after coming off my 3rd of 3 in a row 12 hour night rotation, and being pretty tired when I'd written it, it wasn't one of my more clearly written posts - in terms of readability. On substance, it got the point across I was making so I left it at as was and caught some shut eye.

-Spyder

 

[keesue]

Off topic, but I worked 7/12's for years, two different jobs, 4 days with one and 3 with the other. On top of that, I was doing part time relief shifts during the days at times. This was during the salad days of raising a family, buying a home and all the expenses associated with all of that. Your post was lucid, to the point and mirrored my thoughts exactly.

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
You realize that grp I adds areused for solubilizing the add packs in other oils too, right? Does an OE formulated oil that has adds solubilized in group I count as a group I oil too?

Not sure I buy your logic.

Is there 12 oz. of Grp I carrier in a 5 quart sump? Somehow I doubt that. And even if there were, you are adding MORE contaminate to the nicely refined Grp II and up that you can buy off the shelf.

Again, this is material that has already been removed from your motor oil (where do you think zmax gets their product?) and they are just adding it back in.
I would think that if this long chain hydrocarbon had all of these magical benefits, the refiners would just leave it in!

So please explain the flaw in my logic.

The heat removal method was told to me directly by a company representative.

 

[Johnny]

You either need to try it or give it a rest.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: Johnny
You either need to try it or give it a rest.

Simply responding to a challenge.

Johnny, you are a knowledgeable person in this field, and I have learned much from you. If there is flaw in my logic, you should be able to put a much better argument than this.

I have no intention of paying $20 dollars for 12oz. of mineral oil. I can get 2 quarts of top of the line boutique motor oil for that.

 

[Johnny]

I'm tired of arguing and having respected members on this site stab me in the back on other sites.

I've said the last I'm going to about this product on this thread or the other one I started.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Johnny
I'm tired of arguing and having respected members on this site stab me in the back on other sites.

I've said the last I'm going to about this product on this thread or the other one I started.

Spyder's post nailed it.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Tempest


I would think that if this long chain hydrocarbon had all of these magical benefits, the refiners would just leave it in!


Ive yet to see that this is a "long chain hydrocarbon" compared to motor oil. If you have data showing otherwise, do tell. I have yet to shoot this in a GC-FID to verify. Without meaningful FID results, it is nearly impossible to say for sure. I dont think the MSDS gives average MWT to show that it is indeed "long chain".

If the substance does indeed impregnate metal, I suppose it could help heat transfer. However this would be the opposite of "long chain".

Definitely provide the source of indicating that it is long chain hydrocarbons.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Tempest

So by adding this to your motor oil, you are reconverting it back into a Grp I oil.



Haven't seen the proof of this either.....

 

[hate2work]

I found this 3 yo thread in which Molakule talks about the science behind trying to get something to soak into the crystalline structure of metal. The math is way above my head, but it's still a good read.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1112479&page=1

 

[demarpaint]

Here's a stupid question. If someone poured oil, thinned down with an additive onto a cast iron frying pan and rubbed the oil into the pan, working it in. After washing the pan would you fry an egg on it and eat it? I'd pass. Food for thought, no pun intended. LOL

The science is way above my head, but I do think depending on how porous the metal is there would be some residual oil bleeding out.

 

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Here's a stupid question. If someone poured oil, thinned down with an additive onto a cast iron frying pan and rubbed the oil into the pan, working it in. After washing the pan would you fry an egg on it and eat it? I'd pass. Food for thought, no pun intended. LOL

The science is way above my head, but I do think depending on how porous the metal is there would be some residual oil bleeding out.



Would you fry an egg if the oil didn't have the additive?

 

[demarpaint]

My point is this, if I was 100% certain the mix was just laying on the metal I wouldn't have a problem with frying and eating the egg after cleaning the pan. I do however feel that the oil and additive mix might just get into the pores of the metal and leach out. The thinning effect might just carry it in a bit more. Something to think about that's all.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: Johnny
You either need to try it or give it a rest.


Agree with Johnny completely on this. I also have some first hand evidence (discovered by way of experimentation by actually using this product) suggesting there may indeed be something to the "soaks into metal claim;" or if not, then it has had a positive effect consistent with that claim that I have no other explanation for.

I had cold start lifter noise present with a variety of motor oils prior to using zMAX. When I used zMAX, as with others who noted the same experience, it went away. I changed the oil early (less than 3k into the OCI). The zMAX had went into it at the beginning of that OCI. Anyway, I'm 1.2k into the new OCI, the zMAX treated oil has been gone ever since (only thing in the sump, other than motor oil, is half a can of LM mos2), and the cold start lifter tick still has not returned.

Tempest, your theories just don't cut it and you beat that horse to death in the other thread, with no proof of it, and no first hand experience of your own to base anything tangible on.

You don't want to try it - fine. Nobody is forcing you to. But what is the point of beating a dead horse to death with your alternate theory that can not be proven and when you're not someone who's going to try it anyway?

-Spyder