My personal website was just "trolled" by Fram

[Audioquest]

I cannot believe it. I host a little Honda CRX forum and I thought it was my duty to inform my members about the orange-can-of-death. Well, less than a few days later, my website gets a lengthy post from a Fram "technical manager" stating that my information is false and Fram is the best, blah, blah, blah... Here is the post:

"Hello,
I am the technical manager at Fram. I am wondering why you think Honda would risk their stellar reliability reputation by using an inferior filter? What you are posting is simply not true. The filter end caps are not paper or cardboard, they are made from an engineered fiber, just like the filter media itself. In fact, many companies are now using fiber, felt or no end caps at all. The Champ labs filters are all being made today with what is called the "E core" design, it uses a felt end cap and plastic center tube. They make filters for AC Delco, Wal-Mart and others. Bentley Motor cars uses fiber end caps in the oil filter on a 345,000$ Bentley Arnage. All Toyota OE filters now use no end cap at all, just glue to seal the ends of the filter media. What is important in oil filtration is how much dirt the filter removes from the oil on the first pass. The least expensive Fram filter is 94% efficient using ISO test standard 4548-12. This means it removes 94% of dirt particles in the 10-20 micron size the first time your oil passes through the filter. The Super Tech filter is around 80% efficient in comparison. Your question about why the Fram Extended Guard filter uses steel end caps? The XG filter is the most advanced, highest capacity filter in the market. It is the ONLY filter that has a wriiten guarantee for 10k oil chages when used with synthetic oil. It has two layers of full synthetic glass media wrapped around a stainless steel mesh screen. The end caps are used to contain the steel screen. If you really want to know about what is important in filtration, I would be happy to give you a tour of our engineering labs in ohio to show you how filters are tested. The fiber end caps have been in production for over 15 years with a zero failure rate. Honda uses them, Subuaru uses them, General Motors and Bentley use them."

Wow, I didn't realize Fram was paying it's employees to troll websites and forum to seek out and destroy all negative posts about their products.

 

[demarpaint]

I could swear that was posted here on this site before by someone else. It must be someone from Honeywell watches, or stumbles upon an attack, then pastes that message on the "offending board". Shows they at least care what the public is saying. I guess.

 

[beast3300]

 

[Bluestream]

I would take him up on the offer and tour the factory. If you can't make it let me know and I will go in your place and do a full write-up for BITOG...

 

[Audioquest]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
I would take him up on the offer and tour the factory. If you can't make it let me know and I will go in your place and do a full write-up for BITOG...

 

[bigmike]

The fiber end caps have been in production for over 15 years with a zero failure rate.

I want to know if the said failure rate is zero before or after usage on an automotive engine.

 

[river_rat]

You know, I got no personal problem with their media filtration, nor the endcap material in principle, it is the fact that they seem overall cheaply built to me in every way (XG excepted)....and for a not so of low price.

I am running an orange can at the moment on my VW camper-bus because that was what was available quickly where I was when I needed to do an oil change.
I expect no problems, but this is not, nor ever will be, my regular or preferred filter.

 

[d00df00d]

This isn't trolling. It's e-crusading.

Trolling would be posting stuff that has no purpose but to annoy you. This post from Fram seems factual and designed to defend the company by correcting misinformation.

It's also accurate, as far as I can tell. Fiber end caps are no problem whatsoever and Fram XG filters are pretty darn good. It's the cheapo stuff that earns the bad rep... but that is hardly unique to Fram.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: bigmike
The fiber end caps have been in production for over 15 years with a zero failure rate.

I want to know if the said failure rate is zero before or after usage on an automotive engine.

Originally Posted By: river_rat
...
I expect no problems, but this is not, nor ever will be, my regular or preferred filter.

 

[aquariuscsm]

I`m running a Fram TG right now. Excellent filter imo.

 

[Audioquest]

The funny things is my website only has 15 or so members. They are really being thorough...

 

[Eddie]

The "orange can of death" comments are moronic thinking. While I think there are better filters for the money there is nothing wrong with running orange Fram filters-I've run orange Frames for over over 40 years without incident. This stupid labeling of garage this and that is dumb and dumber and in some cases could be a case for a liable suit.

 

[Audioquest]

For me, it's about VALUE. I don't believe a Fram's construction is on par with competitors filters that sell at the same or lower prices. Therefore, the Fram represents less value for me.

Fram can be lumped in with Bose speakers and Monster cables.

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
This isn't trolling. It's e-crusading.

Trolling would be posting stuff that has no purpose but to annoy you. This post from Fram seems factual and designed to defend the company by correcting misinformation.

It's also accurate, as far as I can tell. Fiber end caps are no problem whatsoever and Fram XG filters are pretty darn good. It's the cheapo stuff that earns the bad rep... but that is hardly unique to Fram.

Exactly.

I personally don't have a problem with Fram made products.

 

[Quest]

Originally Posted By: Eddie
The "orange can of death" comments are moronic thinking. While I think there are better filters for the money there is nothing wrong with running orange Fram filters-I've run orange Frames for over over 40 years without incident. This stupid labeling of garage this and that is dumb and dumber and in some cases could be a case for a liable suit.



+1 to that.

While Orange can of death may not possess the same value as, say champion labs or purolator,etc. It doesn't mean that the "orange can of death" can immediately goes kaboom on your engine.

There are certain parts of continental North America where orange can of death is common as dirt (serving millions of vehicles on a regular basis) and no reports on elevated engine failures (our media ever crave these kinds of information to drum up the news).

Attempt to spread misleading information is what typically contributes to all the flooding of useless information out on the internet. Afterall: there's no absolute black or white out there,just shades of gray.

Q.

 

[AuthorEditor]

That Fram post appears to be accurate. Personally, I prefer other filter brands and construction, except for the Extended Guard, which is excellent though a bit pricey. IMHO the origins of the OCOD reputation have been to a few posts describing failure situations that were likely due to circumstances other than the filter construction. Wasn't the biggest failure (blown engine) due to someone running a non-bypass Fram on a hopped up Chevy with the engine bypass removed? One reason I don't particularly like the orange cans is that when I used them on a boat engine it took longer than usual for oil pressure to come up upon starting. The ADBV didn't appear to work too well on that particular filter. Other than that, they seemed fine, though now I spend a bit more and get better filters.

 

[tmorris1]

A lot of people hate Fram, but what he posted is probably true. I think it is kind of like the Penzoil wax tails. There may be better filters for the money, but if they were really that bad there would be vehicles dead all over the road because there are lots of Frams out there on engines.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: Eddie
.... This stupid labeling of garage this and that is dumb and dumber and in some cases could be a case for a liable suit.

Uh-oh!

Having an opinion about a product and sharing it = libel

Sites like epinions better not EVER relate any negative product information.

Consumer Reports? You had better darn well quit using "much worse than average"
Blue Oval and Bow-Tie guys, you have been warned. You can't say anything negative about the other product. And neither one of you get to badger Mopar. A century of friendly rivalry down the drain.

 

[Cup of Joe]

Originally Posted By: Audioquest

"The least expensive Fram filter is 94% efficient using ISO test standard 4548-12. This means it removes 94% of dirt particles in the 10-20 micron size the first time your oil passes through the filter."


Doesn't this blurb from the fram website make this statement untrue?
Quote:
Honeywell testing of filter efficiency and capacity of models equivalent to PH8A, 3387A and 6607 under ISO 4548-12 for particles > 20 microns. Engine protection is the FRAM measure of a filter’s ability to not just trap dirt but hold it for the life of the filter.
Honeywell testing of filter efficiency (using FRAM XG3387A and XG8A average) and dirt holding capacity (using XG8A average only) and their leading economy filter equivalents under ISO 4548-12 for particles > 20 microns.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: bigmike

I want to know if the said failure rate is zero before or after usage on an automotive engine.


Not to start a flame war but there are respected oil companies using bogus tests to convey quality to their products, tests that are meaningless for oil. Things like "zero failure rate", are interesting. "Zero failure rate", in the 15 years of production, or in their random testing for the last 15 years? Big difference.