GM 3800 coolant elbow replacement

[terry274]

I am replacing the plastic engine coolant elbows for the third time in less than a year on my 3800 V6. This is on a 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix. The last two times I used parts from AutoZone which were made in China. This time I plan on going to the GM dealer, I hope the quality of the parts will be better.
Does anyone have any suggestions or tips to make sure I don't have to do this again in six months? I really don't know what went wrong the last two times I did this job.
Terry

 

[bobfather99]

I used a little black hi-temp sealer on each end, been trouble free for 40k or so. I used GM elbows, too.

 

[Trav]

I use GM OEM elbows with zero problems.I did my own GP with these a year and a half ago still okay.
I smear a little RTV on the o rings when installing them,are these HELP ones cracking or leaking?
I read a few folks complaining on some forums about these HELP ones cracking.

 

[terry274]

Originally Posted By: Trav

I smear a little RTV on the o rings when installing them,are these HELP ones cracking or leaking?
I read a few folks complaining on some forums about these HELP ones cracking.

No, they don't appear cracked. My impression is that they are slightly smaller in diameter than they need to be. They go in and come out very easy. They do not leak when the engine is hot. When the engine cools down they will leak a fairly large puddle on the garage floor. My guess is the plastic cools and shrinks faster than the aluminum, allowing the leak. But this is just a guess.
Terry

 

[Trav]

In that case i would use the GM ones,make sure you smear a little RTV on them first.

 

[beast3300]

Weird, I have the China elbows in both cars for years. I use die-electric on the o-rings instead of RTV though. That and G05 coolant, I'm not sure what would cause premature failure.

 

[Chris142]

I've replaced many of those Elbo's with the Napa ones. Never had one come back. I do smear some silicone on them when I install them.

You did notice that they are different? Didn't get them swapped and in the wrong holes or turned around?

I wonder if I could be a millionair if I started machining ones out of metal?

 

[JimPghPA]

I wonder if Sumitt or some other race source has them made of metal?

 

[sciphi]

IIRC, somebody sourced Aussie Ecotec 3.8 parts to replace it.

I just did this this past weekend. That blasted elbow was leaking where it went into the tensioner, a year after it was replaced. IIRC, nobody put anything on it when it was installed. The HELP elbows were used, smeared liberally with dielectric grease before installation. They slid in easily. No leaks so far...

 

[The_Eric]

Why in the world would you smear RTV on an o-ring? You do realize that the o-ring is a slight interference fit and that when you install the elbow (or any o-ring fitting) that silicone gets smeared back behind the o-ring... How many zillions of o-rings have made it how many zillions of miles without silicone?

If you use the OEM elbow, CLEAN the intake well and use some silicone based grease, you'll have no issues UNLESS the intake is eaten out due to neglect.

 

[Trav]

Pitting is common on these parts,it is not due to neglect,just another issue like LIM gaskets in this engine.
RTV works well and is accepted as insurance against leaks even GM dealerships use it on these to avoid comebacks and leaking

In general i agree usually only a little silicone is needed for o-rings but not always in this particular application.

Quote:
How many zillions of o-rings have made it how many zillions of miles without silicone?


Of course they dont leak they were installed in new parts.
How many new o-rings have leaked in an old aluminum part?

 

[The_Eric]

I imagine that you've done a fair amount more work involving o-rings, but of the ones I've done, so far none have leaked. I've always only used a silicone based grease to lube them up so they don't get nicked on installation.

edit: I will say that sometimes I'll have to do a fair amount crud cleaning- both the inside of whatever surface and the o-ring groove, to insure the o-ring won't leak.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
I'll have to do a fair amount crud cleaning- both the inside of whatever surface and the o-ring groove, to insure the o-ring won't leak


Yes same here.I use silicone grease most of the time but only motor oil on injector o-rings.
The O2 sensors don't like silicone vapors,most of the modern silicone formulations especially grease is O2 safe but still i don't want to risk it.

 

[terry274]

OK, here is an update. I bought both elbows from the GM dealer, $14.19 total. I found it odd that one elbow cost $3.01 and the other cost $9.98 when they are almost identical. I did notice that the O-rings on the GM parts seemed "fatter". I believe this would have been enough to keep them from leaking (as compared to the China parts) but I went ahead and smeared a little RTV on them anyhow. Took the car for a test drive and things look good. Time will tell...
Terry

 

[Trav]

Sounds good! I bet you wont have any more problems now.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: terry274
I am replacing the plastic engine coolant elbows for the third time in less than a year on my 3800 V6. This is on a 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix. The last two times I used parts from AutoZone which were made in China.


Were the Chinese coolant elbows the "HELP!" brand in the red carded
package, put out by Dorman products? I've got a link right here:

http://www.dormanproducts.com/p-19917-47065.aspx

 

[sciphi]

That cheap HELP elbow started leaking on me after I replaced it a few weeks ago. Time to put RTV on it while installing, as a friend suggested. Silicone grease wasn't enough. Grr, I hate having to re-do work.

 

[scott37300]

I wouldn't use RTV personally. Parts with o-rings are not meant to be sealed with RTV. I'm sure the RTV will stop the leak but if you ever need to change them again it will be a major pain.

I would have started with OEM parts from the dealership to start with. They aren't that expensive even from the dealership.

 

[Trav]

You might if you did a few of these buggers even with OEM elbows.Pitting tends to be an issue.
The RTV is no problem at all if the part needs to be removed,the RTV goes backward over the o-ring basically just filling any surface degradation in the sealing area.