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#1907302 - 05/30/10 06:03 AM Long Term Use of Marvel Mystery Oil?
ronrackley Offline


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 180
Loc: Florida
I have experimented with back-to-back runs of Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 with and without 20% Marvel Mystery Oil in my 2003 Cadillac Deville with a Northstar 4.6L engine. I have posted the UOA information on these approximately 5000 mile runs in the Used Oil Analysis - Gasoline forum. All the wear numbers looked good for all the runs, with slightly better iron (7 instead of 9) and copper (4 instead of 5) numbers for the ones with the Marvel Mystery Oil.

My awareness of Marvel Mystery Oil being used to solve problems - like dealing with valve lifter noise - and being used to generally clean engine internals spans more than 40 years, but I've never before thought about using it all the time. I am now.

I have seen it work well for what it does many times, but I've also seen it make leaks in some older engines significantly worse while it was in them. That hasn't been a problem with this engine, though.

So my questions are:

Is the improvement from 9 to 7 in iron a reason to continue using Marvel Mystery Oil in otherwise normal oil changes?

If Marvel Mystery Oil is used routinely for oil changes, will there be any difference in seal and/or gasket leaking at high mileage?
_________________________
98 Volvo S90 - Rotella T6 5W40 - Wix
01 Toyota Tacoma - Rotella T6 5W40 - Wix
03 Deville - Rotella T6 5W40 - AC
05 Deville - Rotella T5 10W30 - AC

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#1907308 - 05/30/10 06:21 AM Re: Long Term Use of Marvel Mystery Oil? [Re: ronrackley]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 9869
Loc: Illinois
The differance means nothing. You are talking about 2 PPM. If you used another company to do the UOA your results would be differant anyway. Save your UOA dollars and buy another oil change. Also if your engine is clean to start with I wouldn't use MMO in oil at all. I'm sure Shell would advise against it.
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 145,000 miles
M1 0-20
2007 Ford Focus 129,000 miles
M1 0-20
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF
M1 10-30 in all OPE

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#1907311 - 05/30/10 06:27 AM Re: Long Term Use of Marvel Mystery Oil? [Re: tig1]
pennzoil_guru Offline


Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 168
Loc: Northern York Region, Ontario,...
If you use a good quality oil from day one in any vehicle and change your oil at the manufacturers specified intervals, I see no need to use any oil additives.
_________________________
2011Toyota Matriix
2006 Toyota Sienna
Both PP 0W20


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#1907312 - 05/30/10 06:28 AM Re: Long Term Use of Marvel Mystery Oil? [Re: tig1]
ARB1977 Offline


Registered: 06/12/05
Posts: 4508
Loc: North Texas
Same here...if it isnt broke dont try to fix it.
_________________________
2002 Tacoma 3.4L 163K (as of 09-21-14)
M1 Super HM 5W30 & MoS2 / Fram Synthetic

2008 CRV 2.4L 105K (as of 03-22-14)
PP 0W20 & MoS2 / Honda A02

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#1907322 - 05/30/10 06:46 AM Re: Long Term Use of Marvel Mystery Oil? [Re: ronrackley]
LTrippett Offline


Registered: 05/28/10
Posts: 11
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: ronrackley
I have experimented with back-to-back runs of Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 with and without 20% Marvel Mystery Oil in my 2003 Cadillac Deville with a Northstar 4.6L engine. I have posted the UOA information on these approximately 5000 mile runs in the Used Oil Analysis - Gasoline forum. All the wear numbers looked good for all the runs, with slightly better iron (7 instead of 9) and copper (4 instead of 5) numbers for the ones with the Marvel Mystery Oil.

My awareness of Marvel Mystery Oil being used to solve problems - like dealing with valve lifter noise - and being used to generally clean engine internals spans more than 40 years, but I've never before thought about using it all the time. I am now.

I have seen it work well for what it does many times, but I've also seen it make leaks in some older engines significantly worse while it was in them. That hasn't been a problem with this engine, though.

So my questions are:

Is the improvement from 9 to 7 in iron a reason to continue using Marvel Mystery Oil in otherwise normal oil changes?

If Marvel Mystery Oil is used routinely for oil changes, will there be any difference in seal and/or gasket leaking at high mileage?


.... So, basically you have had cars where it "Ate the Gaskets" with MMO in it? Or.. If you feel your Gaskets can "Take it" you put Marvel Mystery oil in.. If not, you dont?

I think MMO "Cleans" Gradually, but still has Solvent-like properties. I suppose your point: It can "Solvent" right through Brittle Gaskets? (or not?)

You must be speaking of Neglected Engine to want to seek using it! In that case.. its like rolling the dice?

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#1907323 - 05/30/10 06:47 AM Re: Long Term Use of Marvel Mystery Oil? [Re: ronrackley]
Gary Allan Offline


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 39806
Loc: Pottstown, PA
Quote:
Is the improvement from 9 to 7 in iron a reason to continue using Marvel Mystery Oil in otherwise normal oil changes?


A drift of +/-2ppm is well within the testing/sampling variable. You can glean no insight from that extremely limited difference.

Otherwise, M1 would be prohibitive in any engine since it can add 3-5ppm of Fe all by itself without a darn thing being wrong at all.

That is, you can also have a +/-2ppm with absolutely nothing being "more right".

In alterations like this ( where metals are more or less identical ) you need to focus on the basics. Visc, TBN, Flash point, insolubles.

If you really want to measure the impact of MMO in that concentration, use a lab that provides oxidation/nitration numbers ..TAN ..and all things that add further insight into the oil condition.

I'd say the same thing if the readings were skewed against MMO. One swallow does not the summer make. I would wait for the second application to judge if the increase in metal indicators was a one time "shock blip" or the establishment of an new trend.

I too see no need for MMO without some issue that you're trying to correct.

That said, I will concede that ( based on the apparent evidence/details/data ) that there was no apparent downside to the usage.
_________________________
http://lube-direct.com/gallan/

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#1907335 - 05/30/10 07:09 AM Re: Long Term Use of Marvel Mystery Oil? [Re: Gary Allan]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21378
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

That said, I will concede that ( based on the apparent evidence/details/data ) that there was no apparent downside to the usage.


LOL
That's big coming from you Gary! J/K {Lets hope I can convey I'm fooling around now}....... banana LOL

I would give it another try, only because there are a few OCI's on the board with MMO that were also good, the question comes up that it lowers TBN. IMO the improvement is probably a statistical blip, but the engine is getting cleaned up and nothing is being harmed in the process.

Anyway enjoy the Holiday Weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!

Frank
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#1907346 - 05/30/10 07:23 AM Re: Long Term Use of Marvel Mystery Oil? [Re: LTrippett]
ronrackley Offline


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 180
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: LTrippett
.... So, basically you have had cars where it "Ate the Gaskets" with MMO in it? Or.. If you feel your Gaskets can "Take it" you put Marvel Mystery oil in.. If not, you dont?


No, I'm not saying that I have seen it eat gaskets. I have seen cars that were using significant oil because they had leaks already use more and leave more noticeable drip spots with MMO in them and then go back to the way they were once it was out. I was using it two or three years ago in a 2000 Cadillac Deville Northstar I owned that had the cold start-up carbon knock problem at about 140,000 miles if I remember correctly. I put MMO in the oil and the gas and the noise went away in a few days - and never came back. The engine had been using about a quart of oil every 1500 miles with obvious leaks because the bottom was always wet with oil - as was the case with many older Northstars. The oil useage about doubled with the MMO in that engine and I saw more drops on the concrete driveway. Then it went back to the way it had been when I changed back to just oil after a thousand miles or so. It is like MMO is very good at finding its way out of leaks.

I am not saying that I have seen MMO eat gaskets. I'm wondering if it would if it were used all the time, though.
_________________________
98 Volvo S90 - Rotella T6 5W40 - Wix
01 Toyota Tacoma - Rotella T6 5W40 - Wix
03 Deville - Rotella T6 5W40 - AC
05 Deville - Rotella T5 10W30 - AC

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#1907353 - 05/30/10 07:38 AM Re: Long Term Use of Marvel Mystery Oil? [Re: ronrackley]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21378
Loc: NY
As most know here I am a big fan of MMO. My experience with in cars that leak is this. The leak might get slightly worse when the MMO is in the engine, and then once the MMO comes out the leak returns to "normal", meaning the same as before. I think it does a fantastic job cleaning, as well as freeing up lifters. What I would consider trying for a car that leaks is an MMO clean up followed by a HM oil or something designed to stop leaks if replacing the bad gasket is not an option. JMO

If you visit the MMO website they tested the product with all gasket and seal making materials and it is harmless to them.


JMO
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#1907599 - 05/30/10 12:31 PM Re: Long Term Use of Marvel Mystery Oil? [Re: demarpaint]
mechtech2 Offline


Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 19479
Loc: Chicago Area
A leak increase with MMO in the crankcase is understandable because it is so thin.
I have no problem using MMO in the crankcase here and there, or for special needs. The unseen ring area gets dirty and can always use help. And if there is other varnish or sludge, it can be useful.
But engine oils are quite good now, and even better in the future concerning cleaning, and keeping things clean.
So MMO every OCI is not something I would do.

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#2123050 - 12/31/10 06:32 PM Re: Long Term Use of Marvel Mystery Oil? [Re: mechtech2]
VolvoBruce Offline


Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 26
Loc: CT
To those who say that modern oils are wonderful and meet all needs, and/or say that proper regular oil changes will avoid issues...

Well - when your car burns oil due to previous owner's lack of maintenance, or due to engine design such that it sludges up - you start looking at all kinds of possible solutions short of tearing off the head etc. etc. That's my situation.

Our family drove nothing but Volvo 240s for nearly 15 years, never a problem with oil burning, over many hundreds of thousands of miles. Now we have a Civic and an Accord, and the Civic burns oil. But I still like the Civic so I'm working with it.


Edited by VolvoBruce (12/31/10 06:34 PM)
_________________________
Driving '97 Civic HX, VTEC-E engine. '89 Volvo 240 is semi-retired.

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#2123568 - 01/01/11 09:37 AM Re: Long Term Use of Marvel Mystery Oil? [Re: pennzoil_guru]
gfh77665 Offline


Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 2322
Loc: Southeast Texas
Originally Posted By: pennzoil_guru
If you use a good quality oil from day one in any vehicle and change your oil at the manufacturers specified intervals, I see no need to use any oil additives.


You are EXACTLY RIGHT, but you will encounter the wrath of the additive maniacs with this statement. It is sacrilege to say MMO is unnecessary here!

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#2123580 - 01/01/11 09:50 AM Re: Long Term Use of Marvel Mystery Oil? [Re: gfh77665]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21378
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: pennzoil_guru
If you use a good quality oil from day one in any vehicle and change your oil at the manufacturers specified intervals, I see no need to use any oil additives.


You are EXACTLY RIGHT, but you will encounter the wrath of the additive maniacs with this statement. It is sacrilege to say MMO is unnecessary here!


Additive Maniac here- If you are fortunate enough to buy new cars and care for them from day one, I agree, for the most part. If you are lucky enough to buy problem free perfect used cars and continue to properly maintain them, I agree again, for the most part. But.........................................not everyone is lucky and fortunate all the time. Don't forget sludge prone cars either, but then maybe fortunate people, are smart enough to know in advance about sludge prone cars and stay clear of them, all the time. Or maybe you are the kind of person who buys a car and doesn't care, just as long as it gets from point A to point B, then just gas her up and go, change the oil once in a while and be happy. And lastly don't knock it till you try it, hopefully you'll never need it.

Happy New Year Guys!
_________________________
GOD Bless our Troops


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#2123585 - 01/01/11 09:53 AM Re: Long Term Use of Marvel Mystery Oil? [Re: ronrackley]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 12541
Loc: Chicago, IL
In my opinion, it would be difficult to prove that MMO caused some sort of catastrophic engine failure. We could probably say it was lubrication related, but that doesn't necessarily point to MMO.
_________________________
2011.5 BMW M3 saloon ZCP
der stärkste buchstabe der welt
Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60 + Mahle OX 254D3

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#2123719 - 01/01/11 12:34 PM Re: Long Term Use of Marvel Mystery Oil? [Re: ronrackley]
badtlc Offline


Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 3810
Loc: KC
I disagree with the changing oil is all you need statements. I have had 2 previous cars who saw 3,000 mile OCIs their entire life from new. One car the rings got stuck and compression went below factory specs. Another, sludged up shortly after 100k. Both cars were returned to factory floor performance with some additives.

Combine that with the fact I have used additives in new cars starting at 15k and saw measurable improvements in MPG, idle fuel consumption, and decrease fuel dilution.
_________________________
2007 Ford Escape XLS 2.3L ATX Kendall 5w-20, MC Fl910s, 110k+
2012 Mazda 3i Skyactiv PP 5W-20, 6spd MTX Redline MTL, 35k+

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