Transmission fluid change question

[Neptune]

Hi guys!
I have a 2004 Pontiac Vibe with ~68,000 miles on it. I have not had the tranny fluid changed yet, mainy because the manual says it can go 120,000 miles. I've decided i want to change it anyway. My question is twofold.

1). The engine and tranny are built by Toyota. The dipstick says fill with Toyota type T-IV fluid. Where should I take the vehicle to have this done; A GM dealership or a Toyota dealership. I want the original type of tranny fluid put back in. Is a GM dealership really going to have this?

2). I was going to have just the pan pulled and cleaned with a new filter and the fluid filled back up. Not a complete flush.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[demarpaint]

Why not save yourself a lot of grief? Find a mechanic you trust and supply him with the spec'd fluid. In the end it will probably cost you less, and the job will be done correctly with the proper fluid. JMO

 

[Kaie]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Why not save yourself a lot of grief? Find a mechanic you trust and supply him with the spec'd fluid. In the end it will probably cost you less, and the job will be done correctly with the proper fluid. JMO


Or yourself?

 

[hounddog]

If your going to the dealer then use a Pontiac dealer etc.

 

[Astro14]

T-IV is totally different than the Dexron series of fluids. Use the wrong stuff in an Aisin-Warner transmission and at best, you'll have poor performance (slipping, rough shifts) and at worst, you'll fry the trans.

make sure that whoever you use has the correct T-IV fluid, fluid that meets JWS-3309 (the T-IV standard). Your toyota dealer has it. You might try: http://store.avlube.com/mobilatf3309.html

Mobil 3309 meets the standard.

Castrol Import Multi-vehicle and Valvoline Max Life claim to meet the T-IV standard too, but I have no experience with them...the 3309 runs great in my Corolla and my 2 Volvos that have A-W transmissions that specify JWS-3309...

Good call on changing it ...Volvo has no specfied interval for service, unless towing, then it is 80,000KM change. But at 30K miles, though, the fluid is noticeably darker....and the trans noticeably smoother after changing the fluid...

cheers,

 

[unDummy]

Pontiac dealers? Any left? You also risk having them put in the wrong ATF.

You can go anywhere you want for the transmission service. Just make sure that they use a fluid that is suitable for the 3309 or T-IV spec. For example, any BG shop is a good choice.

You can also change the fluid yourself.

Or, buy your own ATF and have any independent shop exchange it out for you.

BTW, the Lexus dealers have the best waiting rooms and have T-IV, or an equivalent, in stock.

Avoid the Saab/Volvo dealers since their T-IV costs 4x as much as any other dealer.

And, if you want to thumb your nose at Toyota and GM, have the local Ford dealer do it!!!

 

[Ryan]

If this is a Toyota transmission, does it have the 14mm drain plug at the bottom? If so, just drain and fill it yourself. I know on this forum that is not good enough (haha), but for my Corolla, it only drains about 3.5 quarts. I just do this every 15,000 miles now. It is better than paying the "stealership" about 200 bucks to flush the entire transmission. Flushing a fraction of the fluid out is not the best, but when you are changing it out often enough and not paying labor I think it worth it. (Bring on the bashing!)

 

[hounddog]

Most Pontiac dealers are still in business just not selling Pontiac's.Plus other GM dealers will service other GM makes.The auto in question IS a GM car.Its easy enough to ask if they are familiar with a vibe and the fliud it takes.I deal with a Chrysler dealer whom services ALL makes.They use ALLDATA to look up what fliuds,spark plugs etc.to use.I had a Colbalt trans service(special Dexron type 6) plugs changed(100k) serpentine belt changed and a few other items.They beat everybody else's price on parts and labor as they advertised. They are being highly competitive to stay alive in this economy.

 

[JDD]

Should have a drain plug on it. Get some ramps out and do it yourself. Takes about 5 minutes. I can do my Sienna without even getting it up on ramps. Easier than changing the oil. Most Toyota Aisin trans' (Vibe = Matrix) have a hex drive plug either a 10 or 14mm if I recall correctly (dealer can tell you what size the hex is). Plan on 3.5 to 4 qts. Just do it once a year and your trans should last. Also, don't be alarmed at the color of the fluid. Toyota Type IV turns dark but nothing to be alarmed about. I agree that you should stay with the Toyota fluid in your vehicle. It's just a different type of fluid than all the others. Some here on BITOG claim Type IV is not very advanced, which is propably true, but if you change it out regularly, you will be good to go. As has been stated Mobil 3309 fluid is the same as the type IV, but can be hard to find and the dealer price on the IV can be found for under $5 a quart if you call around.

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted By: Ryan
If this is a Toyota transmission, does it have the 14mm drain plug at the bottom? If so, just drain and fill it yourself. I know on this forum that is not good enough (haha), but for my Corolla, it only drains about 3.5 quarts. I just do this every 15,000 miles now. It is better than paying the "stealership" about 200 bucks to flush the entire transmission. Flushing a fraction of the fluid out is not the best, but when you are changing it out often enough and not paying labor I think it worth it. (Bring on the bashing!)

Ryan is absolutely correct. It's easier to change the ATF than the oil on this car. I'd go to Walmart and pick up 4 quarts of Valvoline Maxlife @ $3.67 each. It's a better fluid than T-IV, IMO, and is compatible.

 

[gomes512]

Here's something I recommend to family who aren't into wrenching or live in the city and have no driveway:

Get a hand oil pump, they have 'em at all auto places for about $3-4. Something like this, but doesn't have to be a lower unit pump:
http://www.amazon.com/Lubrimatic-stant-truflate-55005-Marine-Lower-Unit/dp/B000PDIBF8

Go to your local hardware store like Home Depot and get the proper diameter clear hose that will fit into the bottom of the pump. At most you need 4fts worth.

Stick it down the fill tube till you reach bottom and pump out old oil into suitable containers. Fill it back up with new and your good to go.

Generally if you take it for a spin around the block and repeat (1 or 2 times depending on unit capacity) you've replaced must of the old fluid.

Although the Toyota units all have drain plugs, but this way you don't need to crawl under the vehicle.

 

[Donald]

Use Amsoil ATF. Its the best you can get.

 

[Astro14]

Does the Amsoil meet the T-IV or JWS-3309 spec?

That's the crux of the issue...if you use the wrong fluid, then you're going to damage the slip-controlled lock-up Aisin Warner that depends on the friction modifiers in the JWS-3309 to operate correctly. There are lots of Volvo owners with the AW55 who have paid the price (about $6K to replace the trans...) for using the incorrect fluid.

A quick check of their site shows that the Amsoil Synthetic multi vehicle meets both T-IV and JWS-3309...

So, the question becomes ...is a Vibe with 120K worth twice the price?

 

[Gonz]

I went with Mobil 1 in my 2007 Corolla. Did 2 drain and refills at 42k miles. There was no change in shift quality(for better or for worse). The car now has 47k miles on it and shifts the same as it always has.

I'm sure Valvoline Max Life would work fine as well as Redline D4, Amsoil Universal ATF, or Castrol Import ATF.

 

[AzFireGuy79]

Having owned many toyota products, I believe WS to be the only "Quality" ATF they offer. T-IV is pathetic even in short service and I have had nothing but issues using it in the past. I have had the opposite while using WS in vehicles calling for it (obviously this is not an option for you). That being said, I have had great luck with Redline D4(logged 50k in a camry) and in all of my toyota power steering units. Amsoil universal is also a very good choice. These two are my recommendations as I use them(I prefer Redline as its a POE oil). Either way do a cooler line fluid exchange and put a magnefine on it. Enjoy!

 

[Neptune]

Thanks for the replies. A lot of you suggest just draining the fluid and adding new fluid. Yes, I could do that myself as I believe I have seen the tranny pan drain bolt while doing oil changes. The thing here is I also want to change the filter. I have a driveway, but no garage. Not something I want to do for the first time in the cold. So I'm left with paying somone to do it for me. I called a nearby Chevy dealership and they will drain fluid, clean pan, replace filter, and add fluid for around $80.00. They will even use my own fluid and filter. Didn't get a price for that. Still need to call a Toyota dealership. Gonna also ask my local mechanic if he'll use my supplies. The link for the Mobil JWS-3309 looks good, but I don't need 12 quarts of tranny fluid. Also, I'm considering just a drain and refill I'll do myself for now and in the summer do another drain and refill with filter change. Does this sound like a good option? Remember my current mileage is 68,000 and I still have the factory fluid and filter in the tranny. How clogged might the filter actually be?
Thanks.

 

[Gonz]

A few drain and refills is all you really need at the moment. You'll eventually want to drop the pan to clean the magnets and check the screen, but fresh fluid is more important.

Here's a writeup on how to drop the pan and change the screen as well as how to do a cooler line flush. This is for a corolla, but it should be the same for your vibe.
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=325325


Here's a video of a simple drain and refill. The guy in the video says to refill with 3 and a half quarts. That's exactly how much came out for me both times, but you should measure how much comes out of yours.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOkP4nwkduw

It really is easier and simpler than an oil change. I went with Mobil 1 ATF, and I've had no problems. Others have had good results with the Castrol Import ATF in place of T-IV. Any name brand fluid that lists T-IV as recommended should be perfectly fine. If you have questions about a specific fluid just ask here before you use it.

 

[AzFireGuy79]

Unless you have a problem going on inside of your transmission(which it sounds like you do not) there is no possible way that 100-150 micron rock catcher filter will be clogged or even close to it. Most shops that do cooler line fluid exchanges will go ahead with the service if the vehicle is under 100k miles. These filters can go quite some time. I change them with a pan off at 100k in my GM vehicles. At 68k there is absolutely no reason not to do a cooler line exchange yourself. If you set it up properly its also very clean and easy with another person to start and stop the car.

The issue here is getting all of that original fluid out of the transmission. Its full of contamination(from wear in and from assembly). This is what causes most of the wear in an automatics lifetime, so getting it out of there asap is paramount. Adding a filter will further protect the transmission as particles in the 100 micron range have been linked to valve body malfuntion and transmission falure later on in the vehicles life. There are several papers that have been written on this topic, and this is why some strongly believe in secondary filters, and in some cases "bypass" filtration.

 

[Neptune]

Gonz,
Thanks for the links, very informative. I understand a lot more what a tranny filter looks like now. It's more like a screen or strainer. I thought it was made of paper like an engine filter.
I think for now I'll do just a drain with maybe a cooler line flush and replace fluid. I'm going to see how much the Toyota dealership wants for Type-IV tranny fluid.
Thanks to all who replied, I am much enlightened now.

 

[RF Overlord]

Originally Posted By: Neptune
It's more like a screen or strainer. I thought it was made of paper like an engine filter.
For the record, while that may be true of Toyota filters, the ones in my Ford 4R70W and in my Buick TH400 are made of material that looks like engine oil filter media. They are more than just "rock-catcher" screens.