Sorry to hear of your misfortune.
POP! Goes the spark plug!
- Thread starter OVERKILL
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: tig1
Overk1ll,
Has Ford corrected the problem. If so, what year was the correction made? My son has a 05 F150 and a 07 Expy, both with the 5.4. No problems yet.
they added more threads on the 2v motors in I wanna say 2002-2003MY, somewhere around there.
If those year trucks you mentioned have the 5.4 3v motor Ford completely fixes the plugs blowing out problem to the other extreme. Those motors the plugs will break off when you take them out and there is a TSB giving a removal procedure. Ive done plugs on them and if you follow the steps you will be fine.
Ford went from a bad design to worse. the 3V 5.4 plugs will break coming out because of the design of the plug. Special tools are required to remove them.
The heli coils can be installed with the heads on the truck. IIRC, ford wants you to hone out the original spark plug hole with a hone tool with a guide, tap the new hole, apply some sealing agent, install the heli coil.
That #4 is the worst one, with all those vacuum lines back there and the plug hole angling away from the front of the truck toward the firewall makes it a PITA.
Originally Posted By: tig1
Overk1ll,
Has Ford corrected the problem. If so, what year was the correction made? My son has a 05 F150 and a 07 Expy, both with the 5.4. No problems yet.
they added more threads on the 2v motors in I wanna say 2002-2003MY, somewhere around there.
If those year trucks you mentioned have the 5.4 3v motor Ford completely fixes the plugs blowing out problem to the other extreme. Those motors the plugs will break off when you take them out and there is a TSB giving a removal procedure. Ive done plugs on them and if you follow the steps you will be fine.
Ford went from a bad design to worse. the 3V 5.4 plugs will break coming out because of the design of the plug. Special tools are required to remove them.
The heli coils can be installed with the heads on the truck. IIRC, ford wants you to hone out the original spark plug hole with a hone tool with a guide, tap the new hole, apply some sealing agent, install the heli coil.
That #4 is the worst one, with all those vacuum lines back there and the plug hole angling away from the front of the truck toward the firewall makes it a PITA.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Trav
Yes.That's one of the kits big selling points.
They are really not bad to install once you get stuff out way,the only one i hate doing is the last plug on the passengers side when the truck has rear heat and air.
Correct. They do them in the truck. The machine shop our dealer deals with is the same one they used to extract my exhaust studs, and they do a very good job.
Oh, and of course this truck has the rear heat and air, LOL! It has the PCV hose, and both heater hoses that go right over top of that area. Just holding them out of the way to swap the coil and plug was a huge PITA, I assume they have to remove them to do this.
Yes.That's one of the kits big selling points.
They are really not bad to install once you get stuff out way,the only one i hate doing is the last plug on the passengers side when the truck has rear heat and air.
Correct. They do them in the truck. The machine shop our dealer deals with is the same one they used to extract my exhaust studs, and they do a very good job.
Oh, and of course this truck has the rear heat and air, LOL! It has the PCV hose, and both heater hoses that go right over top of that area. Just holding them out of the way to swap the coil and plug was a huge PITA, I assume they have to remove them to do this.
I researched this issue extensively before i bought my below mentioned F-150 and hope i did the right thing. Its been a very good truck thus far. Has the 4.6 engine in it.
Originally Posted By: HM12460
I researched this issue extensively before i bought my below mentioned F-150 and hope i did the right thing. Its been a very good truck thus far. Has the 4.6 engine in it.
Should be fine, that motor should have the extended threads in the heads. Whenever you replace the spark plugs do it with the motor stone cold and use a torque wrench. I asked out FSE when he was out about anti-seize and he said that it is not used in the factory and should not be used except on the barrels of the 3v motors.
I researched this issue extensively before i bought my below mentioned F-150 and hope i did the right thing. Its been a very good truck thus far. Has the 4.6 engine in it.
Should be fine, that motor should have the extended threads in the heads. Whenever you replace the spark plugs do it with the motor stone cold and use a torque wrench. I asked out FSE when he was out about anti-seize and he said that it is not used in the factory and should not be used except on the barrels of the 3v motors.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: HM12460
I researched this issue extensively before i bought my below mentioned F-150 and hope i did the right thing. Its been a very good truck thus far. Has the 4.6 engine in it.
Should be fine, that motor should have the extended threads in the heads. Whenever you replace the spark plugs do it with the motor stone cold and use a torque wrench. I asked out FSE when he was out about anti-seize and he said that it is not used in the factory and should not be used except on the barrels of the 3v motors.
Yes, I question whether the anti-seize was the reason #4 went pop in the first place. I really regret using it, as I may have brought this problem on myself
Originally Posted By: HM12460
I researched this issue extensively before i bought my below mentioned F-150 and hope i did the right thing. Its been a very good truck thus far. Has the 4.6 engine in it.
Should be fine, that motor should have the extended threads in the heads. Whenever you replace the spark plugs do it with the motor stone cold and use a torque wrench. I asked out FSE when he was out about anti-seize and he said that it is not used in the factory and should not be used except on the barrels of the 3v motors.
Yes, I question whether the anti-seize was the reason #4 went pop in the first place. I really regret using it, as I may have brought this problem on myself
I honestly don't believe anti-seize had anything to do with it.
My 99 expedition 5.4 2V had the original plugs changed at 30K,they came out very easy and the new ones were torqued to 10ft lbs with never-seize.They have been changed at 30K intervals ever since without any problems whatsoever.
My brothers F150 same year and engine didn't get the first change until 85k,they came out harder,while no material was on the threads i had the feeling the threads had been strained.
He had no anti-seize when we did them so they went in dry also 10 ftlb. within 2 months the rear #4 let go,then #8.
It would seem the damage is done when the plugs are removed depending and how much of strain put on the treads getting them out.
I continue to use anti-seize on mine and have no problems,we put 8 inserts in his and use anti-seize also now.
Once you get the darn heater/PCV hoses out of the way for a clear shot they are pretty easy with the right kit.Never use a mickey mouse heli coil on these,the Time-Sert kit is good but uses undesirable metal threads,the LOCK-N-STITCH is Ford approved and a better insert that has the same heat transfer properties as original from the plug to head.
My 99 expedition 5.4 2V had the original plugs changed at 30K,they came out very easy and the new ones were torqued to 10ft lbs with never-seize.They have been changed at 30K intervals ever since without any problems whatsoever.
My brothers F150 same year and engine didn't get the first change until 85k,they came out harder,while no material was on the threads i had the feeling the threads had been strained.
He had no anti-seize when we did them so they went in dry also 10 ftlb. within 2 months the rear #4 let go,then #8.
It would seem the damage is done when the plugs are removed depending and how much of strain put on the treads getting them out.
I continue to use anti-seize on mine and have no problems,we put 8 inserts in his and use anti-seize also now.
Once you get the darn heater/PCV hoses out of the way for a clear shot they are pretty easy with the right kit.Never use a mickey mouse heli coil on these,the Time-Sert kit is good but uses undesirable metal threads,the LOCK-N-STITCH is Ford approved and a better insert that has the same heat transfer properties as original from the plug to head.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Thank you for that information Trav. You've made me feel better.
I'm waiting for a call from Ford. The shop is open today and they have the truck. I will find out from my mechanic what kit the machine shop uses. I would hope it is the Ford approved one.
I'm waiting for a call from Ford. The shop is open today and they have the truck. I will find out from my mechanic what kit the machine shop uses. I would hope it is the Ford approved one.
I should have said less desirable instead of undesirable.
I used the steel Time Sert kit and they seem fine,plug life and condition seem normal and they do not come out with the plug.I assume Ford would use the lock N Stitch if possible but rather the steel than pull the head.
Its possible the head may need to be pulled to use the Lock N Stitch depending on if its a type 1,2 or 3. Time Sert does all 3 in the car.
I used the steel Time Sert kit and they seem fine,plug life and condition seem normal and they do not come out with the plug.I assume Ford would use the lock N Stitch if possible but rather the steel than pull the head.
Its possible the head may need to be pulled to use the Lock N Stitch depending on if its a type 1,2 or 3. Time Sert does all 3 in the car.
Last edited:
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
They used the lock-n-stitch insert.
I've got her back. Was $478.00.
I've got her back. Was $478.00.
Great!Price is not bad at all considering the kit alone for Time Serts is $350+.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Trav
Great!Price is not bad at all considering the kit alone for Time Serts is $350+.
Yeah, I didn't think it was too bad either. And at least I know #4 is permanently fixed now.
Great!Price is not bad at all considering the kit alone for Time Serts is $350+.
Yeah, I didn't think it was too bad either. And at least I know #4 is permanently fixed now.
Originally Posted By: Trav
I honestly don't believe anti-seize had anything to do with it.
My 99 expedition 5.4 2V had the original plugs changed at 30K,they came out very easy and the new ones were torqued to 10ft lbs with never-seize.They have been changed at 30K intervals ever since without any problems whatsoever.
I've always used anti-seize and torque to 10.5 ft-lbs. I also think you are right on the money that the threads get damaged upon the initial removal, usually because they were left in too long.
IMO, the best bet is to pull the original plugs around 50,000 miles from a completely cold engine, use anti-seize (preferably nickel based) to prevent any thread galling next time they come out, and torque to 10-11 ft-lbs when using anti-seize. This has always worked for me.
I honestly don't believe anti-seize had anything to do with it.
My 99 expedition 5.4 2V had the original plugs changed at 30K,they came out very easy and the new ones were torqued to 10ft lbs with never-seize.They have been changed at 30K intervals ever since without any problems whatsoever.
I've always used anti-seize and torque to 10.5 ft-lbs. I also think you are right on the money that the threads get damaged upon the initial removal, usually because they were left in too long.
IMO, the best bet is to pull the original plugs around 50,000 miles from a completely cold engine, use anti-seize (preferably nickel based) to prevent any thread galling next time they come out, and torque to 10-11 ft-lbs when using anti-seize. This has always worked for me.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Trav
I honestly don't believe anti-seize had anything to do with it.
My 99 expedition 5.4 2V had the original plugs changed at 30K,they came out very easy and the new ones were torqued to 10ft lbs with never-seize.They have been changed at 30K intervals ever since without any problems whatsoever.
I've always used anti-seize and torque to 10.5 ft-lbs. I also think you are right on the money that the threads get damaged upon the initial removal, usually because they were left in too long.
IMO, the best bet is to pull the original plugs around 50,000 miles from a completely cold engine, use anti-seize (preferably nickel based) to prevent any thread galling next time they come out, and torque to 10-11 ft-lbs when using anti-seize. This has always worked for me.
Yeah, these had what, 200,000Km on them when I changed them? I know they were the original ones. Even after letting them soak in penetrating lube, I imagine you are right, that the threads were probably slightly damaged during the removal process.
Originally Posted By: Trav
I honestly don't believe anti-seize had anything to do with it.
My 99 expedition 5.4 2V had the original plugs changed at 30K,they came out very easy and the new ones were torqued to 10ft lbs with never-seize.They have been changed at 30K intervals ever since without any problems whatsoever.
I've always used anti-seize and torque to 10.5 ft-lbs. I also think you are right on the money that the threads get damaged upon the initial removal, usually because they were left in too long.
IMO, the best bet is to pull the original plugs around 50,000 miles from a completely cold engine, use anti-seize (preferably nickel based) to prevent any thread galling next time they come out, and torque to 10-11 ft-lbs when using anti-seize. This has always worked for me.
Yeah, these had what, 200,000Km on them when I changed them? I know they were the original ones. Even after letting them soak in penetrating lube, I imagine you are right, that the threads were probably slightly damaged during the removal process.
If anti-seize is used and if the plug is torqued to the "dry" value (which is generally the published value), the treads can be damaged. Anti-seize acts as a lubricant and friction in the threads is reduced. So the same "input" torque (on the torque wrench) will apply more "output" torque (tension on the threads).
When using anti-seize on anything where it's not specifically called for, you generally reduce the torque for that fastener. 10% is usually a good rule of thumb.
When using anti-seize on anything where it's not specifically called for, you generally reduce the torque for that fastener. 10% is usually a good rule of thumb.
Originally Posted By: MrCritical
GM owners would be screaming bloody murder.
"Why isn't this a recall?"
Just another "oh, well" with Ford.
As a former Cadillac Northstar owner, I don't think GM fans have a peg to stand on in this case. The Northstar's head bolt kit has to be one of Timesert's top sellers.
GM owners would be screaming bloody murder.
"Why isn't this a recall?"
Just another "oh, well" with Ford.
As a former Cadillac Northstar owner, I don't think GM fans have a peg to stand on in this case. The Northstar's head bolt kit has to be one of Timesert's top sellers.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Do Time Serts or Helicoil use non-stock spark plugs or existing spark plugs (I meant the one which survived the blowout
Is the concept similar to anti-fouler where the plug sits further out of the cylinder?
You use the same spark plugs called for in any catalog. When we do those we usually have to replace the coil over that cylinder because they usually physically break. When my mom's Grand Marquis shot a plug the only thing keeping the coil somewhat near the cylinder was the electrical connection to it.
Do Time Serts or Helicoil use non-stock spark plugs or existing spark plugs (I meant the one which survived the blowout
Is the concept similar to anti-fouler where the plug sits further out of the cylinder?You use the same spark plugs called for in any catalog. When we do those we usually have to replace the coil over that cylinder because they usually physically break. When my mom's Grand Marquis shot a plug the only thing keeping the coil somewhat near the cylinder was the electrical connection to it.
+1 on removing the plugs sooner rather that later. 105k plug change interval on my Accord. Changed 'em at 92k. Plugs felt dry coming out and 2 on the rear bank were tighter than the other plugs. Installed new plugs with anti seize. I won't go more than 75k next time which is about 75% of recommended interval. I never "check" and reinstall plugs. I only pull plugs to replace with new plugs. The fewer installs/removals,the less your odds of damage. .02.
- Status
