The Disadvantages to using a larger oil filter?

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Hi everyone, My name is Nathan from the UK.

This is my first post on BITOG, I have browsed the site a few times and now decided to register.

Reading through the forum, I notice that it seems quite common on for people to fit larger than OEM oil filter, sometimes MUCH larger!

Whilst i can see some benefits to doing this, There could also be other issues that over the long term cause more harm than good.

The advantages to going large (or supersize!)...I believe these to be extended oil filter life (more room for debris), and with more media should mean slightly easier flow for the pump. And there is more oil circulating the system.

Disadvantages I have heard could be:

1. Oil pressure fluctuations.
2. Oil pressure build-up speed during a cold start may take a fraction longer.

I have come across a video where a Honda engineer mentions pressure fluctations with larger filter.



Be interested to hear peoples opinions on this.

In the past I have used bigger filters, thinking im doing a good thing for the engine, but now I have had a change of heart...Maybe, just maybe, all those OEM engineers really do know what they are doing and why should I convince myself i know better than them!

If the cold-start oil pressure is even slightly slower to rise than with the correct size filter, this potenially is quite a issue for engine wear over the long term than anything else you can do to preserve engine life.

I always change oil and filters a bit more often than the OEM suggest, So for the moment i am sticking to the correct quality brand filter for the application (or a very close size/spec)

Anyway, Opinions please
 
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I have been wondering this myself so here is my opinion about it.
Most OEM sized filters are fine and should always be the default filter when a vehicle is under warranty. An over sized filter is helpful when you have a large, high oil capacity (6qts or more) engine that uses a small, short oil filter. The advantages to using a larger filter in this case would most likely be more filter element which means extended oil filter life and having slightly more oil flowing through the engine while it is running. The only disadvantage I could imagine woud be slightly slower oil flow on cold start up.
This is just my guess at it, hopefully some of the more experinced guys will chime in on this. Thanks for your help!
 
I have a couple of specific examples for you using Puro numbers. The 14612 is a shorter version of the 14610, anywhere the 14610 will fit, there's no reason not to use it in place of the 14612 IMO.

OTOH, recently tried the larger 14459 (width) filter in place of the 14610. However, as shown on the this of board, the 14610 actually has substantially more media area the larger 14459. So bigger size doesn't neccessarily mean more media area.

Within reason, I don't see any issue using an oversize filter. That said, I wouldn't take it to an extreme.

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I think correct oil filters sizing might be quite complicated!

After all, if "any size fits all" there would only need to be about 5 different spin-on oil filters on the shop shelves to fit pretty much any car ever made. But it's more like 55.
 
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Originally Posted By: sayjac
I have a couple of specific examples for you using Puro numbers. The 14612 is a shorter version of the 14610, anywhere the 14610 will fit, there's no reason not to use it in place of the 14612 IMO.

OTOH, recently tried the larger 14459 (width) filter in place of the 14610. However, as shown on the this of board, the 14610 actually has substantially more media area the larger 14459. So bigger size doesn't neccessarily mean more media area.

Within reason, I don't see any issue using an oversize filter. That said, I wouldn't take it to an extreme.

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Yes its the extreme oversizing that concerns me.
I have a old Daihatsu Charade GTti (3 cylinder 993cc turbo 100bhp, not a model they ever sold in the USA), OEM filter length is 65mm, But for years I have used easier to buy Toyota filters that are 75mm long, all other dimensions and bypass spec is the same. 10mm extra length has proven to be no issue whatsoever over 15+ years of ownership of these cars. Infact most USA filter catalogues i have looked at group the Daihatsu Charade with Toyota filters anyway....(Fram 4967)

But some owners have fitted oil filter relocation kits and much larger filters like FRAM PH8a.
 
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Nathan,,I am by far,,Not an oil engineer,,in fact,,not even close,,some of these guys on here,,take my brain out and play with it,,that being said,all I can do is offer an opinion on what I do personally and what I have seen over the years.I worked as a GM tech for around 25 years and a majority of my experience has been with Chevrolet engines,,so,,I'll tell you how I do my engines.First off,,I asked this similar question when I worked for GM,because I noticed,that over the years all of the vehicles that GM produced,were changing their filter types on a yearly basis,so I asked several of the GM engineers why they kept changing filter sizes and locations on their products,,and the answer I got most of the time was location.Back in the the earlier years,,AKA:50's,,60's,,70's,,,80's,,,there was usually a fair amount of room at the standard location for the Chevy filters,,on a 5.7 or{350} it was always on the drivers side.With the advent of more performance designs,the exhaust header,kept getting closer and closer to the filter making the oil hotter,,so,,they started going with smaller filters,so as not to overheat the oil.Now,,remember,,I am not one of these engineers,,but,,I never noticed a difference in the oil pressure.I would perform services on these vehicles and of course,,I would have to test drive and make note of any variations,,which for me,,,there weren't any.As far as my own vehicles and again,,98% of the time they were small block Chevys,,the engines always had installed,,A/C part number,,PH1218,,and they would hold almost a quart of oil.Now,,what I'm using is 2 different filters depending on the time of year.I have a 2000 S-10 pickup with a circle track small block installed,,right where a 2.2 liter 4 cyl used to sit.When I did the swap,I used the recommended headers for this swap and with the 1218,,the gap between the header and the filter,,was about 1/4 of an inch,,during the winter months,this works great because the oil warms quicker,,but during the summer months,,and let me tell you,,in Atlanta Ga,,it's gets screamin' hot,,so I use the pf454 filter,,it's the same as the 1218,,but a little less than half the length,which in turn,gives me about 2 to 2.5 inches of gap and that works at keeping my oil temp down where it needs to be.Also,,GM,, factory installed,,different sizes to accomodate the difference between the 4x4's and the 2x4's.On a 2x4 drive,,they would install a 1218,,on a 4x4,,with the installation of an adapter,,they would install a pf52 because of the front axle.So,,as you can see,,the factories would do these things without and problems as far as extra wear on the engine.Now I don't know,if this applies to other makes of vehicles,but like I have experienced,there were never any issues with changing to larger filter.But I can guarantee,,that if there are any issues,,the guys in here,that are the chemical engineers,,,are going to be able to tell you.Once again,,this is just an opinion based on my personall experience,,so take it with a grain of salt,,but I am curious,if anyone else HAS had issues because of changing to a larger filter.
 
It may take a bit longer for the larger filter to "charge" when doing a cold start, but with a good, proper oil and a decent ADBV, this should not be a problem.

I watched the video.....I find their jerrybuilt hose clamp to hold the OF shape (?) (text says Al bands) interesting to say the least - in the USA they just use a thicker filter can. But to assume the size alone leads to "Oil pressure fluctuations" I don't think is correct. In a race car, there's a lot more going on if they are running a wet sump. If the pressure fluctuates because the can is flexing, yikes. Otherwise - unless somehow the oil pump is failing or grossly undersized, I don't see this as a problem with a logical increase in filter size. The charged pressure is the charged pressure...

As for benefit - maybe some on certain engines with a small sump to begin with. I had a dual full flow remote mount on my turbo with two FL-1A's. That did add some oil volume. No odd fluctuations either.
 
In addition; I would add that just because it screws on does not make it a good choice. Media square inches and type and pressure relief valve setting are important parameters to consider. The OEM filter will be sized to provide good service for the maximum OCI recommended by the manufacture so that is the filter I will use.
 
Hey Pablo,,not that this has anything to do with this post,,but I noticed your location,,one of the many dealerships I worked in was Sunfair Chevrolet,,in Yakima,,I was ther for about 4 years,,,Ok,,,I shut up now and get back on my paper
Originally Posted By: Pablo
It may take a bit longer for the larger filter to "charge" when doing a cold start, but with a good, proper oil and a decent ADBV, this should not be a problem.

I watched the video.....I find their jerrybuilt hose clamp to hold the OF shape (?) (text says Al bands) interesting to say the least - in the USA they just use a thicker filter can. But to assume the size alone leads to "Oil pressure fluctuations" I don't think is correct. In a race car, there's a lot more going on if they are running a wet sump. If the pressure fluctuates because the can is flexing, yikes. Otherwise - unless somehow the oil pump is failing or grossly undersized, I don't see this as a problem with a logical increase in filter size. The charged pressure is the charged pressure...

As for benefit - maybe some on certain engines with a small sump to begin with. I had a dual full flow remote mount on my turbo with two FL-1A's. That did add some oil volume. No odd fluctuations either.
 
On my Tacoma 2.7L, the oil filter hangs upside-down so the oil filter is always completely full of oil. It really doesn't matter what sized filter I use because there will be no air in it.

I use an oversized Pureone filter because more filtering area should theoretically offset the finer filtration as far as back pressure as well as provide more "life".

My opinion is that since the oil drains into the pan from all the oil channels in the engine there are already big gaps that dwarf the difference a different sized oil filter would make. Startup pressure variations are going to happen with any system.
 
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Daihatsu OEM filter 65mm long (actually made in Austria by Mahle) Same as Mahle aftermarket OC215)

Mahle OC534 75mm long - latest synthetic media to meet Toyota OEM spec filter 90915-YZZJ1...replaces older Mahle OC216.

And a fat old Delphi from a old Daihatsu Charmant of the 1980's.

Currently I use the Mahle OC534, bit worried about trying the big old Delphi.
 
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I run a filter that is the same diameter, same gasket, same bypass setting, same burst pressure, but half again longer. And my vehicle is under warranty. The oil filter will not cause a problem and the burden of proof would be on the manufacturer. If the engine blows, I can easily switch to the OEM filter before having it towed in to keep them from trying to weasel out of anything. That's the way I roll.

Your concerns about time to fill an empty (larger) filter are legitimate if the filter is empty at start-up. But it does not cause pressure fluxuations. The reason I use a larger filter is to lower the face velocity through the media and increase filtration efficiency somewhat.
My filter sets with the threaded end up and is never empty even after setting for a long time. OP always comes up right away on cold start-up.

Cold oil tends to thinner nowadays,(5W instead of straight weights) and most media is a blend of man-made fibers and cellulose now, as well as embossed pleating that allows more pleats to be squeezed in there and still have space between them. These things have allowed smaller filters in the cramped spaces allowed.

Many cars, even in the '90s continued to use old pattern large filters out of habit and market availability, but more and more are going to smaller filters which shouldn't be a problem, but I like the next size up.
 
Originally Posted By: river_rat
If the engine blows, I can easily switch to the OEM filter before having it towed in to keep them from trying to weasel out of anything. That's the way I roll.

LOL that is my plan too! I am glad someone else thinks like me, makes me feel perhaps a little less crazy
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I am a little concerned about the possibilty of having to change an oil filter on the side of the road with no ramps, no jack (well only the little one that came with the vehicle), no real tools, in the middle of winter with cars speeding by but hey, would I be a BITOGer if I let that scare me out of it?
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Originally Posted By: AMC
Originally Posted By: river_rat
If the engine blows, I can easily switch to the OEM filter before having it towed in to keep them from trying to weasel out of anything. That's the way I roll.

LOL that is my plan too! I am glad someone else thinks like me, makes me feel perhaps a little less crazy
crazy2.gif
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I am a little concerned about the possibilty of having to change an oil filter on the side of the road with no ramps, no jack (well only the little one that came with the vehicle), no real tools, in the middle of winter with cars speeding by but hey, would I be a BITOGer if I let that scare me out of it?
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I'm sure that taking in a non-running (or one with an "issue") vehicle with a nice clean new filter would not cause the stealership to look twice....
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How about if you are worried about the warranty be honest and use what they recommend since its their engine till its out of coverage? Is it that hard? You really think you know more than the millions of miles of testing that the mfg of the engine did?

Sorry but conversations like this crack me up...
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And then people post that the mfg is screwing them by asking for logs and receipts show correct items being used for oil changes.

Bill
 
Im sure manufacturers dont just choose a certain size filter without reason. Dyno testing and real world testing of many engines over many thousands of miles in all climate conditions with stripdowns to inspect for wear.

Wheras many of us (i was guilty of it) will look through the filters on the shop shelf and think to myself "this one will fit, looks bigger, must be better than OEM, similar price, so i must be doing my engine a favour!"

You cant go wrong choosing the OEM specified filter, but perhaps you may go wrong with the wrong filter.

With a new vehicle under warranty I would stick with OEM parts.
 
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