open enollment time!

[opus1]

Originally Posted By: stockrex
KB01 "pre-existing conditions (wife is pregnant).."

Gotta luv pregnancy as a pre-existing condition.
Well, unfortunately, this scenario is one of the reasons that, while I don't agree with Obamacare, I *do* agree that it should be mandatory for all. I envision too many cases of people foregoing insurance until a "condition" comes up and the then jumping in the pool because the new law says that you can't be excluded. Everyone should be paying to maintain the system if they plan to benefit from it.


DISCLAIMER: I am NOT accusing the poster or anyone here of gaming the system in that way, this is just a thought that came to mind whtn the term "pre-existing condition" came up.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: stockrex
The big health insurance firms CAN do whatever they want, cuz they have no competition, and healthcare is a commodity that one cannot do without.

That's right..shoot the messenger (insurance companies)...Not the guilty parties: Healthcare delivery system, lawyers, and government that makes insurances cover everyone under the sun and then points the finger at the health insurance companies (but ighores laws on litigation abuses and their own over-regulation).

When I started getting ready to pick a plan for my Medicare Supplemental Coverage I bet I got at least 25 advertisements for supplemental coverage. Don't tell me there is no competion.

Blaming Insurance carriers is equivalent to Blaming "Big Oil" for gouging us at the pump ...Instead of blaming our glutenous wasteful habits.

 

[Burt]

Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: dwendt44
Much of any insurance increase is because they can.

Gouging?

Its not the insurance its the inherent costs by the delivery system: Extraordinary means used to save/prolong lives, Free care to those that can't pay, extrordinary built-ins to avoid litigation, expectation of non mistakes (needless tests), patient rights policies etc, etc, etc.

A Dr. visit of $179 for a simple Dr. visit is billed to my insurance. My Insurance allows $99 (which is asscpted) and I think I pay about 10. Who's fault is it?? The insurance companies who make a 3% profit???

You are assuming insurance is gouging. I feel its the system of delivery care now more than ever acerbated by Government policy.

What has the Government been able to accomplish in any area lately that isn't filled with mismanagement and corruption?


Amen, Amen.

 

[pbm]

If Obamacare is so good, why did Congress exempt themselves?
(just like they did for Social Security)

 

[opus1]

Originally Posted By: pbm

If Obamacare is so good, why did Congress exempt themselves?
(just like they did for Social Security)
asked and answered....

 

[stockrex]

Al, I am for not shooting anyone, I work in the healthcare sector and totally agree with your post,
we do not need for profit insurance co's who take our money and decide what they will pay? and make a profit by NOT paying, you just added to the healthcare cost.
litigation: those fat pigs in the marble house are run by lobby, quick to put claim limits but nobody talks about limiting the lawyer's bounty, which will go a long way to discourage ambulance chasing lawyers.

competition: seriously, pls apply for insurance as an adult with an pre-existing condition, make it even juicer, say you have bad dreams about dino oil ;-), and post back here. gap coverage for medicare is totally different scam.

so you are comparing healthcare to driving a SUV, errr, I am at loss, wait, let me pop some prozac
[stock is popping some blue pills] oh wait, that was not prozac.

If we do not cover everyone, what do we do with the sick or who might get sick and is without any coverage?

relocate them to china? offer them free medical weed? pray tell us what we should do with the marginal, the divorced mother of 3 where baby dady is MIA?

Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: stockrex
The big health insurance firms CAN do whatever they want, cuz they have no competition, and healthcare is a commodity that one cannot do without.

That's right..shoot the messenger (insurance companies)...Not the guilty parties: Healthcare delivery system, lawyers, and government that makes insurances cover everyone under the sun and then points the finger at the health insurance companies (but ighores laws on litigation abuses and their own over-regulation).

When I started getting ready to pick a plan for my Medicare Supplemental Coverage I bet I got at least 25 advertisements for supplemental coverage. Don't tell me there is no competion.

Blaming Insurance carriers is equivalent to Blaming "Big Oil" for gouging us at the pump ...Instead of blaming our glutenous wasteful habits.

 

[stockrex]

Let's do that again:

Insurance pays $99,
paper work cost to physician's office to file, refile, rerererefile to insurance $38,
paper work cost to review and rejection/acceptance cost by insurance $15 (assumption)

Now, guess who is paying for the $53 in addition overhead?

A:Obama
B:Generous insurance Co's
Catient

Originally Posted By: Burt
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: dwendt44
Much of any insurance increase is because they can.

Gouging?

Its not the insurance its the inherent costs by the delivery system: Extraordinary means used to save/prolong lives, Free care to those that can't pay, extrordinary built-ins to avoid litigation, expectation of non mistakes (needless tests), patient rights policies etc, etc, etc.

A Dr. visit of $179 for a simple Dr. visit is billed to my insurance. My Insurance allows $99 (which is asscpted) and I think I pay about 10. Who's fault is it?? The insurance companies who make a 3% profit???

You are assuming insurance is gouging. I feel its the system of delivery care now more than ever acerbated by Government policy.

What has the Government been able to accomplish in any area lately that isn't filled with mismanagement and corruption?


Amen, Amen.

 

[stockrex]

Opus, I respectfully disagree with part of statement,
I am guessing you are definitely not female, most females who jump into planned into pregnancy probably have health insurance or sugar daddies. but what about those who did not plan on it?

From an economic point of view, to minimize the cost the taxpayer (medicaid), it will be in our interest to provide basic coverage to be mothers.
a week in the nicu probably cost the same 20 natural births.

how about comparing health ins to car ins, would you drive without ins? or try to buy it when you have an accident?

I agree, most people jump into when they NEED it,
true story: we have a family friend who is a neuro surg in town, he has a patient with a mass in his brain who NEVER had a SSN #, does not believe in paying taxes, and is very suspicious of the federal authorities. he now has a SSN and seeing drs on the taxpayers dime.

Originally Posted By: opus1
Originally Posted By: stockrex
KB01 "pre-existing conditions (wife is pregnant).."

Gotta luv pregnancy as a pre-existing condition.
Well, unfortunately, this scenario is one of the reasons that, while I don't agree with Obamacare, I *do* agree that it should be mandatory for all. I envision too many cases of people foregoing insurance until a "condition" comes up and the then jumping in the pool because the new law says that you can't be excluded. Everyone should be paying to maintain the system if they plan to benefit from it.


DISCLAIMER: I am NOT accusing the poster or anyone here of gaming the system in that way, this is just a thought that came to mind whtn the term "pre-existing condition" came up.

 

[opus1]

stockrex, you caught the gist of what I was saying, but as I feared, using the pregnancy preexisting condition as an example didn't quite work the way I was hoping.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Al

Blaming Insurance carriers is equivalent to Blaming "Big Oil" for gouging us at the pump ...Instead of blaming our glutenous wasteful habits.


Is the doctor making $300k/yr for work which 95% of which a trained monkey could do glutenous or wasteful?

I see that as a big deal. The doctor is the one who took the oath to help everyone. He/she shouldnt pass the cost on to the next guy, he should go out of business if he cannot deal with it.

The problem is that the producers in this country pay both for the non-producers/non-insured, AND the doctors' boat payments for which their skill is often not commensurate with their salary.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: stockrex
Al, I am for not shooting anyone, I work in the healthcare sector and totally agree with your post,
we do not need for profit insurance co's who take our money and decide what they will pay? and make a profit by NOT paying, you just added to the healthcare cost.
litigation: those fat pigs in the marble house are run by lobby, quick to put claim limits but nobody talks about limiting the lawyer's bounty, which will go a long way to discourage ambulance chasing lawyers.


These things are a concern to me. The "Lawyers' Monopoly" is a significant issue in this country.

Insurance is one of the few things that IMO government should do versus the private sector. Even a non-profit company strives to grow and profit, they just spend it so it doesnt show on their balance sheet at the end of the year. While we all know the mismanagement that government has in some things, insurance is a very simple concept - pooling of risk. Collect premiums, pay out claims, charge rates based upon your actuarial risk. Simple. Profit in the equation means that payout of claims needs to be balanced not only against necessity, but also against profitability. That is a bad place to be. Social security is very efficient, IIRC less than half a percent is spent in management of the program. Now, dont get me wrong, the accounting for the system was faulty in allowing they money to be spent year to year as part of the general fund. But that cannot be mistaken as inefficiency in the process. A totally non-profit oriented system with lean operations and minimal overhead costs would only help, IMO.

As a gov't employee, I see the garbage spewn about how much public sector employees make versus private, and then I see the burdened rates for contractors doing work for us, and I can say that the professionals that are contracted are easily 150% the man hour burdened rate of the equivalent gov't positions. Sure, the insurance companies can have Indians and minimum wage slaves doing much of their work, but I cannot see how a company can reasonably profit and grow when their success is based upon minimum payouts in an industry where risk is pooled for the purpose of paying out. Seems inefficient and stupid to me.

 

[HangerHarley]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Seems inefficient and stupid to me.


Yup, thats America. The land I love.

If we WERENT inefficient and stupid, we would be China.

I choose

And i support the GOOD LEOs, and men and women of Law Enforcement.. the ones that treat people like a PERSON and with respect, not the "I am God Almighty because I have a Gun and Badge and YOU WILL DO AS I SAY I AM YOUR SUPERIOR!" Cops.. whom grossly disgrace LEOs of the former kind, majorly. Now, having never been or even heard of Collingswood, NJ (sounds liek Central or South Jersey.. Zip starts with 07, or 08? 08 is way down, around Atlantic County..?) .. I will assume you are the former.

And i have to ask.. Insurance? Of what kind?

I believe in SMALLER government. Bunches of reasons. I try to keep an open mind, but smaller Gov't just makes sense.

And if i do ANYTHING through Sears Holdings, it will be purchase Stock. Still getting to that point.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Al

Blaming Insurance carriers is equivalent to Blaming "Big Oil" for gouging us at the pump ...Instead of blaming our glutenous wasteful habits.


Is the doctor making $300k/yr for work which 95% of which a trained monkey could do glutenous or wasteful?

I see that as a big deal. The doctor is the one who took the oath to help everyone. He/she shouldnt pass the cost on to the next guy, he should go out of business if he cannot deal with it.

The problem is that the producers in this country pay both for the non-producers/non-insured, AND the doctors' boat payments for which their skill is often not commensurate with their salary.


I agree. The healthcare providers who work at all levels of healthcare are ultimately the ones billing the cost of healthcare. And what do they do a vast a majority of the time for the healthcare consumers? Prescibes medications that do about as much harm as good. It use to be when a person was sick or injured they could stay at the hospital until they were almost fully recovered. And it didn't cost a fortune and nurses spent a lot of time attending to each patient and weren't paid more than engineers. Same principle applies to education. I put most of the blame on the people who work in the education field who are collecting the funding.

It seems like today everyone wants to get paid highly for delivering little to nothing of value. About the only difference between them and welfare bums is they are paid much more and have more influence. And valuable hard, work is not rewarded (and outsourced to China).

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: HangerHarley
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Seems inefficient and stupid to me.


Yup, thats America. The land I love.

If we WERENT inefficient and stupid, we would be China.

I choose

And i support the GOOD LEOs, and men and women of Law Enforcement.. the ones that treat people like a PERSON and with respect, not the "I am God Almighty because I have a Gun and Badge and YOU WILL DO AS I SAY I AM YOUR SUPERIOR!" Cops.. whom grossly disgrace LEOs of the former kind, majorly. Now, having never been or even heard of Collingswood, NJ (sounds liek Central or South Jersey.. Zip starts with 07, or 08? 08 is way down, around Atlantic County..?) .. I will assume you are the former.

And i have to ask.. Insurance? Of what kind?

I believe in SMALLER government. Bunches of reasons. I try to keep an open mind, but smaller Gov't just makes sense.

And if i do ANYTHING through Sears Holdings, it will be purchase Stock. Still getting to that point.

Dont quite understand where you were going with that... and per my profile I have nothing to do with LE.

 

[HangerHarley]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: HangerHarley
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Seems inefficient and stupid to me.


Yup, thats America. The land I love.

If we WERENT inefficient and stupid, we would be China.

I choose

And i support the GOOD LEOs, and men and women of Law Enforcement.. the ones that treat people like a PERSON and with respect, not the "I am God Almighty because I have a Gun and Badge and YOU WILL DO AS I SAY I AM YOUR SUPERIOR!" Cops.. whom grossly disgrace LEOs of the former kind, majorly. Now, having never been or even heard of Collingswood, NJ (sounds liek Central or South Jersey.. Zip starts with 07, or 08? 08 is way down, around Atlantic County..?) .. I will assume you are the former.

And i have to ask.. Insurance? Of what kind?

I believe in SMALLER government. Bunches of reasons. I try to keep an open mind, but smaller Gov't just makes sense.

And if i do ANYTHING through Sears Holdings, it will be purchase Stock. Still getting to that point.

Dont quite understand where you were going with that... and per my profile I have nothing to do with LE.

America being "Stupid" is one of the things that makes us great.

And id venture to say: Unregulated.............

Im out of touch with the whole "health" thing, but i can barely manage my bills as it is. So whatever will put money in my pocket, im all for.

Spending money to save money makes NO Sense to me. NONE. Economy is one thing.. Saving money is always good too.

(Oh, and can you say "Unfunded Unconstitutional mandates?" I can.)

 

[mechanicx]

Medicare revives end of life planning http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40809650/. What this really means among other things and in a nutshell is an incentive (that didn't exist before and wasn't needed) is given to healthcare providers to encourage the patient forego curative and life-extending treatment and to start life shortening "palliative" treatment. When you read between the lines I think it means less curative treatment will be offered. It is a solution in search of a problem. It's not hard to figure out what the problem is. Instead how about patient get the best treatment without the medical community charging more than the system can afford?

 

[Familyguy]

Originally Posted By: brave sir robin
who elses health insurance premium is going up next year?
im single with no children and this year I paid about 200 bucks a month. Next year I get to pay close to 300 a month for the same poopy 80/20 plan yay!!
bankruptcy from medical bills are in my future YAY!.....fml


Mine has increased by double digits every year since I can remember. Three years ago, I lost my job and had to buy my own private insurance for my family for about 18 months...to the tune of about $1700/month. A number of companies told me that simply wouldn't insure us at any price so we really got boned. About a year ago, I got a job for a subsidiary of GE and now I get very similar family coverage for a bit under $300/month. There's absolutely no rhyme or reason to it.

I can't say I'd shed a tear if a few of those health insurance companies went down the tubes. Obama care is the wrong answer, but I'm tired of watching insurance company profits go up while I'm getting the shaft to get very basic coverage for a relatively young/healthy family.