Engine Failure - Toyota 4Runner V6 - Warranty

[BigJohn]

Two days ago, my son was driving our 2007 Toyota 4Runner. After leaving a stop light, he heard some ticking and then a loud pop. He pulled over immediately, with a stream of oil running out of the crank case.

I pulled him to the dealership and they investigated.

The Service Tech called this morning and said there is a hole in the crank case. He said that he needed the last 7 oil change receipts and they would submit to Toyota for complete warranty replacement.

Here's the problem......

This is how I purchase oil and filters.

I have these receipts....plus the last one where I purchased six jugs of Motor Craft from WalMart a couple of years ago.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I should handle the dealer and does anyone have a link to that piece of legislation where it backs up the vehicle owner, to do their own oil changes and that the burden of proof is on the manufacture.....to prove oil related failure, rather than something faulty in the engine.

 

[Pablo]

Not sure what "piece of legislation" you are referring to.

I assume your 2007 is still under warranty? Toyota is ? years/? miles??

I hope they got a sample of the oil/haven't drained it yet.

There is no problem, show them your receipt(s) show them your log book where you recorded the oil change date and mileage. If they give you grief then they are shatting you - just as I think they are already...."hole in the crank case"....hmm....I believe that, but oil related........hmmm.....

 

[addyguy]

This is EXACTLY why DIY oil changes on new vehicles are a problem!

'Debate' on here about whether or not you are allowed to do, this and what oils you are allowed to use, will do you NO good when they say 'yeah, just give us the receipts, and we'll submit it for a warraty claim..'... 'I don't have recipts, I do it myself' 'Well, sorry, we need receipts to submit the claim'....

All he money you just saved with DIY maintenance might have just cost you a new engine!

Good luck - I'd love to hear if you have any success with this!!! I'm really not trying to bust you a new one over this, it's just this is a great example of when our 'academic' debates turn into a real-life situation - who's gonna win???

 

[Sayjac]

M-M Warranty Act. As long as you have the receipts for the filters, oil and a written record somewhere that 'should be' enough.

That said, not sure where/how the hole in the cranckcase directly relates to the oil change in this case. Might just be a hoop they want you to jump through for warranty service.

 

[IndyIan]

I would send in your oil purchase reciepts showing that you bought enough oil and filters for the last 7 oil changes. I'd think when they see you're buying quality oil and filters they should reasonably expect that you are doing your maintenance.
If they balk, ask them to pull a valve cover and have a qualified mechanic give his opinion on any signs of oil related wear.
Poor oil can't cause parts to come through the crankcase without having a terrible looking valvetrain, IMO.

 

[Rickey]

How many miles on it? What oil, what OCI? Owners manual recommendations? Just curious.

Your dealership has chosen a very negative way to handle this warranty claim IMHO.
Sadly you are being treated as if YOU are trying to defraud THEM!
Is there a chance that you might take it to another dealership?
Maybe a few calls to other dealerships explaining your plight are in order.

Good luck Sir.

Rickey.

 

[JHZR2]

This is also why I like to do UOAs on new vehicles. If nothing else it can show that the oil quality was monitored.

Id try to scrape up receipts or any other means of determining that the job was done. This is why it is critical on a new car if doing DIY to buy the parts separately on their own receipt and store that receipt.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
This is EXACTLY why DIY oil changes on new vehicles are a problem!

'Debate' on here about whether or not you are allowed to do, this and what oils you are allowed to use, will do you NO good when they say 'yeah, just give us the receipts, and we'll submit it for a warraty claim..'... 'I don't have recipts, I do it myself' 'Well, sorry, we need receipts to submit the claim'....

All he money you just saved with DIY maintenance might have just cost you a new engine!

Good luck - I'd love to hear if you have any success with this!!! I'm really not trying to bust you a new one over this, it's just this is a great example of when our 'academic' debates turn into a real-life situation - who's gonna win???


I agree, to a point which is why I am now using oil with the API approvals as well. Does that matter? Maybe maybe not, just hedging my bet in the event of a problem, rare or not. I have a detailed log, and all invoices for oil and filters. W/O proof the battle is going to be ugly, with proof less ugly.

What people fail to realize is in a case like this, the consumer is guilty until he proves himself innocent. While the battle goes on the car sits at the dealership, so who loses here? Hole in the crankcase, could be a rod came through the block, sounds like that could be an oil related issue. Maybe a bearing let go. Now what? Drag an oil company in they are going to try their best to blame the engine.

I'd try like [censored] to gather invoices, maybe a friend owns a repair shop and can hook you up with OC invoices.

Good luck, keep us posted!

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
If they balk, ask them to pull a valve cover and have a qualified mechanic give his opinion on any signs of oil related wear.
Poor oil can't cause parts to come through the crankcase without having a terrible looking valvetrain, IMO.


^^2nd

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
This is EXACTLY why DIY oil changes on new vehicles are a problem!

'Debate' on here about whether or not you are allowed to do, this and what oils you are allowed to use, will do you NO good when they say 'yeah, just give us the receipts, and we'll submit it for a warraty claim..'... 'I don't have recipts, I do it myself' 'Well, sorry, we need receipts to submit the claim'....

All he money you just saved with DIY maintenance might have just cost you a new engine!

Good luck - I'd love to hear if you have any success with this!!! I'm really not trying to bust you a new one over this, it's just this is a great example of when our 'academic' debates turn into a real-life situation - who's gonna win???


I think this is EXACT response from the public dealers want. They want to scare you into them servicing the car.

Just how hard is it to save oil and filter receipts? How hard is it to keep a little journal? All of which are completely valid in a court of law.

So you are telling us that the Toyota warranties says that DIY oil changes are verboten and the warranty will be void unless the engine has factory rep. oil changes?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I agree, which is why I am now using oil with the API approvals as well. Does that matter? Maybe maybe not, just hedging my bet in the event of a problem, rare or not. I have a detailed log, and all invoices for oil and filters.

That's not what he said at all. You would have the same hassle according to his logic. Nothing to do with API oil. Sorry bucko, you changed the oil yourself. I should look at the picture again, but all I think they all are API oils, so let's not have that stupid debate for the millionth time!!

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
This is EXACTLY why DIY oil changes on new vehicles are a problem!

'Debate' on here about whether or not you are allowed to do, this and what oils you are allowed to use, will do you NO good when they say 'yeah, just give us the receipts, and we'll submit it for a warraty claim..'... 'I don't have recipts, I do it myself' 'Well, sorry, we need receipts to submit the claim'....

All he money you just saved with DIY maintenance might have just cost you a new engine!

Good luck - I'd love to hear if you have any success with this!!! I'm really not trying to bust you a new one over this, it's just this is a great example of when our 'academic' debates turn into a real-life situation - who's gonna win???


That may be one of the most ill-informed comments I've seen here in a long time.

As long as the original poster has his receipts for the oil and filter purchases and a log of when the oil changes were done he'll be fine under warranty.

I will agree that this is one reason why I prefer not to have a stash-I'd rather purchase my supplies a week or so before the oil change so I have a receipt dated close to the oil change date. But in this case I doubt it will cause the original poster any issue as long as he has a receipt for oil that is of the correct viscosity and rating for his vehicle.

 

[BigJohn]

2007 Toyota 4Runner 4x4
V6, 4.0L EnSgine
Purchased: September 2007
35,700 miles

Oil changed every 6 months or 5,000 miles

Last oil change done 700 miles ago: Motorcraft 5w20 Semi-Synth and Pure One oil filter

Moved to 5w20 based on TSB: EG018-06, which allows for 5w20 with GR series engines, which the 2007 4.0L V6 is.....

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
I agree, to a point which is why I am now using oil with the API approvals as well.!
OT. When I recently changed the oil on future dil's Acura RDX Turbo, I wanted to use QSUD, but it didn't meet the Honda HTO-06 spec. So went with M1 5w30, (no first choice PP 5w30 at wally in stock) because it met the spec. I did use a P1 filter, instead of OEM. Had my son staple the top of the P1 filter box to the M1 receipt and write all the OCI info on the receipt. Not sure if he has a maintenance log book as I do, but all the info is available with receipt. Overkill perhaps. But, warranty, not my car, and a turbo spec so just covering as many bases as possible jic.

As for OP, oc record here still sounds more like hoop jumping then anything else. Please keep us updated and good luck.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I agree, which is why I am now using oil with the API approvals as well. Does that matter? Maybe maybe not, just hedging my bet in the event of a problem, rare or not. I have a detailed log, and all invoices for oil and filters.

That's not what he said at all. You would have the same hassle according to his logic. Nothing to do with API oil. Sorry bucko, you changed the oil yourself. I should look at the picture again, but all I think they all are API oils, so let's not have that stupid debate for the millionth time!!

API did I strike a sour note, stupid debate? LOL Lets see how this poor guy makes out.

Yours truly,
Bucko!

PS why are certain Amsoil reps so hostile and aggressive? Did I mention Amsoil?

 

[webfors]

Wow, listen to the panic...

It's standard procedure to ask for your receipts when you do your own oil changes. Put together a nice file-cabinet folder with your receipts, maybe a sheet of paper showing a log (date/mileage) of oil changes and include the pictures of your stash. That's what I brought and showed to the service manager at Subaru and he said that would be more than enough to satisfy Subaru Canada should they request it.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: BigJohn
2007 Toyota 4Runner 4x4
V6, 4.0L EnSgine
Purchased: September 2007
35,700 miles

Oil changed every 6 months or 5,000 miles

Last oil change done 700 miles ago: Motorcraft 5w20 Semi-Synth and Pure One oil filter

Moved to 5w20 based on TSB: EG018-06, which allows for 5w20 with GR series engines, which the 2007 4.0L V6 is.....
Is this the current mileage? Did you buy this new?

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: addyguy
This is EXACTLY why DIY oil changes on new vehicles are a problem!

'Debate' on here about whether or not you are allowed to do, this and what oils you are allowed to use, will do you NO good when they say 'yeah, just give us the receipts, and we'll submit it for a warraty claim..'... 'I don't have recipts, I do it myself' 'Well, sorry, we need receipts to submit the claim'....

All he money you just saved with DIY maintenance might have just cost you a new engine!


Good luck - I'd love to hear if you have any success with this!!! I'm really not trying to bust you a new one over this, it's just this is a great example of when our 'academic' debates turn into a real-life situation - who's gonna win???


I think this is EXACT response from the public dealers want. They want to scare you into them servicing the car.

Just how hard is it to save oil and filter receipts? How hard is it to keep a little journal? All of which are completely valid in a court of law.

So you are telling us that the Toyota warranties says that DIY oil changes are verboten and the warranty will be void unless the engine has factory rep. oil changes?


I agree with Pablo. Those of you that "doomed and gloomed" this guy have done a real disservice. It's unknown at this point what even cause the problem and he hasn't been told he's SOL yet. If the OP has receipts of the oil (and that pic is a good piece of evidence) and records of when he changed the oil, that's all it's likely to take.

As to DIY maintenance, if everyone capitulates and wets themselves in the face of the fear of a denied claim, or the slightest resistance, then owner maintenance WILL become a thing of the past and all the hand wringers will get what they deserve.

My advice to the OP is the march into the dealer armed with all the records you have, be polite, don't say any more than you need to but have the attitude that this problem is going to be fixed under warranty. Be nice at all times.. until it's time NOT to be nice... but don't accept no for an answer if the problem is truly not of your doing.

 

[goodtimes]

A lot of people do the same thing including myself. It is something we think won't happen. I see it as do just as they say the best you can, and give the receipts, logbook, picture of the oil, filters, the kind of oil and filter you used on this vehicle, and a list of the cars you service yourself even.

I still have a car under warranty, and it bothers me now that I haven't even kept the logbook. It rarely goes to court but I don't think any judge would give much weight to a logbook that could have been written in the hall two minutes before.

I can see their point and think they are reasonable. They don't know who someone is, and can't assume what they did.

 

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted By: webfors
Wow, listen to the panic...

It's standard procedure to ask for your receipts when you do your own oil changes. Put together a nice file-cabinet folder with your receipts, maybe a sheet of paper showing a log (date/mileage) of oil changes and include the pictures of your stash. That's what I brought and showed to the service manager at Subaru and he said that would be more than enough to satisfy Subaru Canada should they request it.



This is exactly what I plan to do. I have an outstanding log, recorded to the exact mile and date....but I am going to struggle with receipts.....because of the large quantities purchased and time between those purchases. I know I have the last two receipts (separated by 18 months). Those two receipts will represent oil quantities for about 12 oil changes, as I use the same oil in my daughters Toyota Yaris.

Anyway, hopefully the request for this documentation is simply "preparation" for the warranty request to Toyota. The Service Representative is a very nice guy and I hope he will aggressively go to bat for me. He did make the statement...."we know it wasn't an issue of 'no oil in the engine', as there was pretty new oil in the bottom of the oil pan and there is a new oil filter on the engine."

I am tempted to drive back to the intersection where this thing occurred, and take a picture of the "trail" of oil spread across the pavement for about 75 yards as my son was slowing down and pulling over to the shoulder.