New Lawsuit Over E15 Fuel

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It's looking less likely we'll be seeing E15 fuel anytime soon. In addition to the reluctance of station owners to spend thousands of dollars to upgrade tanks and pumps, major vehicle and equipment manufacturers are working together to keep E15 off the market:

Lawsuit Over E15 Fuel Approval

Quote:
Washington— Automakers joined a lawsuit today seeking to overturn the Environmental Protection Agency's decision to allow a higher blend of ethanol in newer vehicles.

The Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers — the trade association representing Detroit's Big Three automakers, Toyota Motor Corp., and eight other companies — joined the Association of International Automobile Manufacturers, the National Marine Manufacturers Association, and the Outdoor Power Equipment Institute in filing a petition today challenging EPA's decision in mid-October to grant a partial waiver approving the sale of gasoline containing 15 percent ethanol for 2007 model year and newer passenger cars and light trucks.
 
MORE Ethanol?! are they nuts?!?!

10% is more then enough.

the EPA should recommend manufacturers use other ways to save gas, like making the vehicles LIGHTER to boost MPGs.
 
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Originally Posted By: rshunter
Thank you, thank you, thank you to all the evil corporations involved in the lawsuit...


Agree.
 
Agree good, BUT all this will not make a mark on the possible 3000 page document concerning the EPA, and why they "need" 15% ethanol !! It sickens me to see the Government have so much control over this subject, HOWEVER I'm NOT against vehicles getting much better fuel economy than that now present in most vehicles.. how we are going to get there I have no idea !! it seems the manufactures are making vehicles with less and less mileage per gallon BUT the manufactures cater to the consumers...

I would like to see a mid size to small sedan like the Honda Accord getting 35 MPG, that would be a great starting point.. This without any stupid hypermiling, or any other type of altered driving style..
 
I would much rather see more e85 pumps and 100 gas pumps around then the e10 garbage we get now. I much prefer the better mpg from 100% gas; and if I had an e85 compatible car I would be more temper to get e85 if the price was worth it.
 
Originally Posted By: Artem
the EPA should recommend manufacturers use other ways to save gas, like making the vehicles LIGHTER to boost MPGs.

Why is the onus always on the manufacturers? How about the other side of the coin?... like people buying smaller cars to boost MPGs.
 
It is not a good policy to have these massive subsidies for first-generation ethanol. First-generation ethanol I think was a mistake. The energy conversion ratios are at best very small."

"One of the reasons I made that mistake is that I paid particular attention to the farmers in my home state of Tennessee, and I had a certain fondness for the farmers in the state of Iowa because I was about to run for president."
Former Vice President Al Gore.
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: Artem
the EPA should recommend manufacturers use other ways to save gas, like making the vehicles LIGHTER to boost MPGs.

Why is the onus always on the manufacturers? How about the other side of the coin?... like people buying smaller cars to boost MPGs.


Agree 100%, but you will also notice a few post up one person has already posted about finding ways to make the vehicles lighter... I guess the best/cheapest way to do that is to make them smaller.

I will say that there seems to be several cars/engines that are anomalies on the road getting outrageous mileage.. I drive a 02 Honda Accord 2.3 I4, getting around 25-27 MPG, and that is an honest statement.. My mother has a 98 Buick Park Avenue with the 3800 V-6 that gets 34-36 MPG !!!! It can runs circles around my accord in power, and is a huge boat.. floating down the road.. weighing way more than my little accord LOL this is just not fair.. But I have also noticed that cars of a period around mid 90"s seem to be more efficient/economy MPG wise than today's cars.

I think both make cars lighter, us driving smaller vehicles, and the manufacture making more efficient vehicles is what we should all want.

I would love to have a small/mid size ( a truck between these two) maybe a Ranger size with a diesel engine not for huge amounts of power.. but enough to get around 35-40 MPG I think it could be done..

Ford also states in many advertisements etc they are making more efficient engines in the latest models, as I said if the consumers, and manufactures could come together I think we could be getting mid 30's mileage easy.
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Why is the onus always on the manufacturers? How about the other side of the coin?... like people buying smaller cars to boost MPGs.

Shudder to think.
 
I can't help but think that if manufacturers bust their behinds to make vehicles lighter and more efficient, that the general market would then gravitate toward larger and faster vehicles. Do I need to remind people of the SUV craze shortly after the market was saturated with econoboxes?

The free market will wash this out, as it always does.
 
Originally Posted By: rclint
Agree good, BUT all this will not make a mark on the possible 3000 page document concerning the EPA, and why they "need" 15% ethanol !! It sickens me to see the Government have so much control over this subject, HOWEVER I'm NOT against vehicles getting much better fuel economy than that now present in most vehicles.. how we are going to get there I have no idea !! it seems the manufactures are making vehicles with less and less mileage per gallon BUT the manufactures cater to the consumers...

I would like to see a mid size to small sedan like the Honda Accord getting 35 MPG, that would be a great starting point.. This without any stupid hypermiling, or any other type of altered driving style..


Well, without the power seats, power windows, 20x air bags, 3 dvd players, and a few other things, the car would weigh a ton less and with a nice 4 banger powering the wheels should EASILY get 35mpg ave with 50/50 city/highway.
 
True. My 02 Volvo S40 - classified as a compact car - weighs more than my old 90 Crown Victoria - a full sized sedan.
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: Artem
the EPA should recommend manufacturers use other ways to save gas, like making the vehicles LIGHTER to boost MPGs.

Why is the onus always on the manufacturers? How about the other side of the coin?... like people buying smaller cars to boost MPGs.


EVERY manufacturer should include cylinder deactivation technology in EVERY car they make, be it a V8, V6 or a 4 banger.

Its been proven that it only takes roughly 50hp or so to move a mid size car down the highway at 60mph. why in the world do we need that big --- V8 400hp Hemi burning all that extra fuel for no good reason?! when it can easily move the car at the same speed with only 2 cylinders working!
 
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And exactly what is the plan for the vehicles which were built *before* 2007 ? Is gas station supposed to have different pumps for E85 vs non-E85 ?
 
Anyone remember when the Volkswagon Rabbit was available with a diesel engine? Those little cars got 50+ mpg. Several of my co-workers had them. A friend of mine had a Ford Escort in diesel. I think it was a 1984. I drove it for a week and averaged 55 mpg.
 
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