If aluminum base is so great...........

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First, it is not my intent to downplay the great results everyone here has experienced with aluminum based grease.

But, I don't believe I have ever seen any automotive, agriculture, or construction equipment manufacturer recommend anything but lithium base greases. Why is that? (please exclude special applications such as boat trailers, extreme high heat, etc.)

If aluminum base is so great, wouldn't it become the standard? Even if cost is considered, a few bucks more for aluminum base is not a factor on a $20,000 dollar + machine.
 
quote:

Originally posted by doitmyself:

If aluminum base is so great, wouldn't it become the standard? Even if cost is considered, a few bucks more for aluminum base is not a factor on a $20,000 dollar + machine.


Good point......but then for a few bucks extra, they could run full synthetic fluids........and oil and tranny coolers. And GM could fix their intake gasket design.

Aluminum complex greases are not nearly as common as lithium. That would create hardship for some people who are trying to use a factory compliant grease.
 
Follow the money.

I use Schaeffer's aluminum complex grease on my farm equipment and vehicles.

It is simply superior to any other grease I've used.

Don't know if its the base of aluminum or the Schaeffer's mfg process that makes the grease so good. Possibly some of both.
 
I maintain a very small fleet of ag. equipment and vehicles and have used lithium grease for 30 years with no failures or noticeable increased wear of any kind (not that it's easy to measure pin/u-joint,etc. wear).

Kind of like motor oil, if you do the proper maintenance interval, are the differences maybe very small?

"I think with Schaeffer's client base aluminum complex was the thickener that outperforms most available lithiums in wet applications and that's what it takes for a small company to compete against the name brands."


RB, I think your thoughts hit it on the nail.I also believe that Shaeffer's chose aluminum base so that they could market something different and promote it as better, mostly because of it's water resistance capability.

So, is it really better, or do "we" just feel better using something different. I remember when everyone on our campus farms went to Kendall Super Blu, then it was Cen-pe-Co. Right now it is Kama Sutra oils!

By the way, when I switch over to Schaeffer's this year, can I safely just start pumping it in regarding compatability? I have tractor/loader pins, u-joints, axle spindles,etc.. Clutch throw out bearings? What about warranty and the manuals recommending lithium.

Thanks gentlemen - just trying to start up some lively discussion.

[ April 11, 2004, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: doitmyself ]
 
quote:

So, is it really better, or do "we" just feel better using something different. I remember when everyone on our campus farms went to Kendall Super Blu, then it was Cen-pe-Co. Right now it is Kama Sutra oils!


I got to thinking about that so did Bob's water test
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on some greases in my collection.

Nevastane HT/AW 2 which is a H1 food grade grease with an aluminum complex thickener did seem to emulsify with water
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as did Keystone Zeniplex which H2 which is also aluminum.
I not sure why I never tried the water test on these aluminum greases I just assumed it would be waterproof.
Lubriplate Pur Tac is an aluminum complex H1 grease and it didn't

On the flip side MPC's LP-10 lithium and Century Lubricants T-80 (Fuchs)also lithium didn't appear to.Amsoil GLC will emulsify but it seems to resist for awhile.

I been using Schaeffer's #221 in our farm equipment for about two years now and I really believe for the price It's hard to beat, it will stay where you put it won't emulsify water.


quote:

By the way, when I switch over to Schaeffer's this year, can I safely just start pumping it in regarding compatability? I have tractor/loader pins, u-joints, axle spindles,etc.. Clutch throw out bearings? What about warranty and the manuals recommending lithium.

I had no trouble switching at all regarding compatability or at least I didn't see any issues with it. and as to the manuals recommendations I question their knowledge unless they are asking for specific test it must meet.
I do like NLGI's GCLB certs for wheel bearings with disk brakes and I did decide to use Amsoil GLC on the throw out on our MF 1160 as it would seem to flow better in the bearing when it's cold and the bearing is expected to start spinning from a dead stop, at least that's what I concluded from the one paper I have on the Apparent Viscosity of Greases

quote:

Thanks gentlemen - just trying to start up some lively discussion

Grease need's some lively dicussion, I know I have a lot to learn about it.
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[ April 11, 2004, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: RB Shannon ]
 
So...... my lithium complex grease does fly off pto U-joints,it oozes out of the axle spindles, and also out of the front loader pins. It doesn't "stay put" like your Schaefer's grease.

But, is this necessarily a bad thing? A farm tractor operating in a dusty field is going to have those relatively open bearing surfaces collecting a lot of grit.

Isn't it better that the grease carries the dirt OUT of the bearing (ooze) rather than having it "stay in place"?
 
quote:

If aluminum base is so great, wouldn't it become the standard? Even if cost is considered, a few bucks more for aluminum base is not a factor on a $20,000 dollar + machine.

quote:

Aluminum complex greases are not nearly as common as lithium. That would create hardship for some people who are trying to use a factory compliant grease.

IMO sbc350gearhead nailed it,plus throw in a dose of apathy. We have a $450k cup filling machine in our "food" plant and they recommend to use a high quality lithium type grease in the manual , I have never seen or heard of an H1 rated lithium grease(indirect food contact) possibly because of the effect of lithium if ingested(although it can be rated for H2 for non food contact), plus the machine sometimes operates in conditions with liberal amounts of water and some times direct spray.

Now I do believe that there a some lithium complexes that can hold up to this if they are properly additized(for wet industrial inviroments) and the GCLB rating is important in automotive applications.

I think with Schaeffer's client base aluminum complex was the thickener that outperforms most available lithiums in wet applications and that's what it takes for a small company to compete against the name brands.

Here's a good example,about two years ago we rebuilt a Pfaudler filler and the lead mechanic used Shell Alvania #2 with a lithium 12- hydroxystearate thickener that we used at the time for electric motor bearings, and he used it to grease the turret thrust bearings, now it works fine in ball bearings in a motor that stay relatively dry but I can assure you if water got in the bearing there it would wash out in short order.

[ April 11, 2004, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: RB Shannon ]
 
quote:

So...... my lithium complex grease does fly off pto U-joints,it oozes out of the axle spindles, and also out of the front loader pins. It doesn't "stay put" like your Schaefer's grease.


The amount of "stay put" a grease has doesn't come from the type of thickener aluminum,lithium,calcium etc. but from the tackifiers added (adhesivness/cohesivness), IMO any type of thickener can have tac if they wanted it to be so, and any grease no matter how tacky it is will ooze out until it find's it's own equilibrium, as it can occupy only a certain amount of area.

quote:

But, is this necessarily a bad thing? A farm tractor operating in a dusty field is going to have those relatively open bearing surfaces collecting a lot of grit.
Isn't it better that the grease carries the dirt OUT of the bearing (ooze) rather than having it "stay in place"?


The excess grease that squeezes out of the contact zone acts as a seal for the most part excluding contaminents from the bearing surface and regreasing will purge out anything that might have gotten in there. With the proper amount of tac Schaeffer's or not it will tend to stay together and stick to the surface longer and keep surfaces apart and lubricated.

About two years ago we had trouble with adhesive wear on some stainless piston shafts recipricating in navy brass guides on a filler, the brass was actually migrating to the shaft. All the greases we had at the plant wouldn't last a shift, the only thing that seemed to last a shift was Bostick Marine neverseize, but QC frowned on this as it's not food grade. Somehow we got some Hasco Alaska Glacier NLGI 2(400cst) to try, very adhesive, and works well for over two shifts with one greasing.
Then the LE guy stopped in with some of their 4025 NLGI 2 (68 cst) also tacky and extremely cohesive. I tried this on the same filler and had it last for two shifts also,while not very scientific it led me to the conclusion that under certain conditions tac can play a very important role in keeping things lubricated instead of getting wiped off of the surface. This machine runs at a little over 11.4 RPM that would be 10,944 revolutions in two shifts,with productivity being about 80% on that line that's 8,755.2 strokes up and down a day on one greasing, and it seem's to work IMO because of tac.
 
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