Nissan Ester 5W30 - '08 Infiniti G37, 5kmi

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JonnyO03

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May 17, 2008
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Hey guys,

Nissan Ester 5W-30 (booooo) w/OEM filter
4,985 mi on oil
22,633 mi on car
2008 Infiniti G37S w/VQ37HR

Lots of highway driving in the summer (road trip from the deep south to New England and to the Midwest), then a 1k mi or so of midwest city driving, plus three months sitting in the garage. Oil in May 10, drained Dec 10 (date is wrong on the UOA). Decided to switch to Penn Ultra/Pure One when this was drained. Hoping for less shearing and maybe less wear metals.

UOA History:
(1) Factory Fill 5W-30, 2,670 mi
(2) Dealer Valvoline Dino 5W-30, 3,830 mi
(3) Penzoil Yellow bottle Dino (didn't post a thread)
(4) Nissan Ester Dino 5W-30, 4,502 mi, lead & iron jump
(5) Nissan Ester Dino 5W-30, 1,553 mi
(6) Nissan Ester Dino, this UOA:
2icbrsl.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/2icbrsl.jpg

-Jon
 
Wonder where the iron is coming from.

Sheared deep into 20wt territory.

I wouldn't bother with the Nissan Ester oil.
 
Originally Posted By: SLCraig
Why does this oil suck so much?


Which oil turned in the lowest iron numbers and how much does it cost/quart? Call your Nissan dealer for an Ester price!
 
Should of stuck with the PYB... but don't forget.. we can't tell anything from a UOA with respect to wear
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: SLCraig
Why does this oil suck so much?


Its not the oil, its the Nissan. And I wouldn't say it "sucks." Nissan engines rip oil to shreds and shed metal like crazy, but they seem to run well and long. It makes me doubt the validity of some of our assumptions about what wear metal percentages are "acceptable" and what percentages are a warning flag. At the very least, the warning percentages vary enormously from one engine to another.
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: SLCraig
Why does this oil suck so much?


Its not the oil, its the Nissan.


Granted, Nissans are hard on oil during break in.

That said, find me another G37 past break in that has those kind of iron numbers with any other reputable oil.

Nissan Ester oil sucks. There are many a thread on BITOG showing how bad it sucks.
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: SLCraig
Why does this oil suck so much?


Its not the oil, its the Nissan. And I wouldn't say it "sucks." Nissan engines rip oil to shreds and shed metal like crazy, but they seem to run well and long. It makes me doubt the validity of some of our assumptions about what wear metal percentages are "acceptable" and what percentages are a warning flag. At the very least, the warning percentages vary enormously from one engine to another.


Actually it is the oil. I can't recall which, but there have been UOA's on here with similar mileage with wear metals like 1/3 or 1/4 of what this oil spits out.

I understand that these engines are perhaps harder on oil than some, but there are oils that perform a lot better than this "exotic" [censored].
 
Originally Posted By: SLCraig

Actually it is the oil. I can't recall which, but there have been UOA's on here with similar mileage with wear metals like 1/3 or 1/4 of what this oil spits out.

I understand that these engines are perhaps harder on oil than some, but there are oils that perform a lot better than this "exotic" [censored].


There is actually quite a bit of science behind the Genuine Nissan Ester Oil and its effect on DLC, and this info can be attained through various academic research databases. The info you obtain from the UOA is of little value anyway as different engines will have different wear patterns, so the higher Iron count is not necessarily indicative of a problem. And the members here should know that shearing is normal and expected with most friction modified lubricants, and there is no reason to be concerned about this behavior.
 
One thing I have learned about Nissan engines is that they seem to like Pennzoil Platinum or Pennzoil Ultra. I don't know exactly why, but they just do.

Several of my fellow Titan owners switched to PP or PU with great uoa results. Not that the prior ones were horrible, but the numbers are the numbers....

Give PP or PU with a good filter (M1, RP, or Fram XG) and I bet you will see a very nice improvement.
 
Originally Posted By: coachditka
One thing I have learned about Nissan engines is that they seem to like Pennzoil Platinum or Pennzoil Ultra. I don't know exactly why, but they just do.

Several of my fellow Titan owners switched to PP or PU with great uoa results. Not that the prior ones were horrible, but the numbers are the numbers....

Give PP or PU with a good filter (M1, RP, or Fram XG) and I bet you will see a very nice improvement.


That's just it. The numbers are NOT the numbers. Unless you have more data beyond the simple PPM variations you see in these basic UOA's, you haven't really learned anything!

Please see this thread:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2065149#Post2065149
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: coachditka
One thing I have learned about Nissan engines is that they seem to like Pennzoil Platinum or Pennzoil Ultra. I don't know exactly why, but they just do.

Several of my fellow Titan owners switched to PP or PU with great uoa results. Not that the prior ones were horrible, but the numbers are the numbers....

Give PP or PU with a good filter (M1, RP, or Fram XG) and I bet you will see a very nice improvement.


That's just it. The numbers are NOT the numbers. Unless you have more data beyond the simple PPM variations you see in these basic UOA's, you haven't really learned anything!

Please see this thread:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2065149#Post2065149


I doubt that there is any corrosion here. So, all that iron must be a sign of catastrophic impending doom
crazy2.gif
I'd wager that PZL will do better too.

BTW, don't ever judge anything by only one source. I can agree with some of the link and disagree with some of it too.

We're trending here. And, Ester doesn't look too good. VQ30/35/37... UOAs here can be looked at for comparison.

Years ago when many complained about Mobil-1's higher iron, I used to question the complainers with "Do you want bigger chunks of iron in the filter and nothing in the UOA, or no wear in the filter with a UOA showing lots of harmless dissolved iron ppm". Filter analysis is unheard of. I think that is what the point of the link was, is one reason I like cartridge filters & filter magnets, and why I also have magnetic drain plugs on all my engines.

For what we use the UOA here for, these ARE THE NUMBERS and I'd expect/demand better from my oil/VQ37 combination.
 
Originally Posted By: unDummy

I doubt that there is any corrosion here. So, all that iron must be a sign of catastrophic impending doom
crazy2.gif
I'd wager that PZL will do better too.

BTW, don't ever judge anything by only one source. I can agree with some of the link and disagree with some of it too.

We're trending here. And, Ester doesn't look too good. VQ30/35/37... UOAs here can be looked at for comparison.

Years ago when many complained about Mobil-1's higher iron, I used to question the complainers with "Do you want bigger chunks of iron in the filter and nothing in the UOA, or no wear in the filter with a UOA showing lots of harmless dissolved iron ppm". Filter analysis is unheard of. I think that is what the point of the link was, is one reason I like cartridge filters & filter magnets, and why I also have magnetic drain plugs on all my engines.

For what we use the UOA here for, these ARE THE NUMBERS and I'd expect/demand better from my oil/VQ37 combination.


So, if the numbers identified by this UOA are higher in the spectrum sampled by a cheap UOA, but the numbers with say PYB are lower in this range, but higher in the larger particle size range (which we can't see because there is no particle count or other useful data) then?

I have nothing to gain by vouching for this oil. I don't use it, I don't even own a Nissan. However, without extensive MEANINGFUL data (which I'm sure Nissan has) and tear-down testing (which I'm sure Nissan has done), it is just a huge guess as to which oil is REALLY doing a better job.

This is like trying to gauge the number of fish in a lake by dropping in a stick of dynamite and making a guess based on how many float to the top after it goes off.

To quote Doug Hillary:

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary

His 100 or so UOAs would have been much more meaningful regarding Iron levels if the PQ Index in each was known and even more so if Particle Counts were taken in each case. This is what gives UOAs a greater meaning if Trending can occur - especially with one engine (or component) or on one specific and well known engine familiy enables

It is possible (as he alluded to) to have a low Iron number in a simple UOA and have greater wear with Iron contaminants beyond the >8micron level that the UOA will not expose - a PQ Index result assists in assessing this - as does a PC!

And of course the TBN (TAN too in diesels) is very important too when accessing the lubricant's condition - we all know that

I passed no comment on the single pass UOA here and I never do on BITOG - and I have rarely done so since in joined in 2003!!

Of the hundreds of UOAs I have on my own database around 90% have PQ index, TAN and TBN recorded - a number have PC too
 
Don't even bother with the wear numbers then, even though it is meaningful data.

Oil sheared to 7.61cst. How many 5w30's do that in 5k miles?
There was a VOA here showing ESTER above 10cst. >25% viscosity shear, with NO WEAR, is still a failure for this oil.
 
I'm blending Amsoil SSO with a can of Lubro-Moly MOS2.. we'll see how that holds up in this engine after I get my analysis results back. I've found a bunch of research papers that I have links to on my blog that explain why Molybedenum is an important ingredient in Nissan's oil. Yes, the additive package is good, but what's the point if the base oil is [censored]???

Anyways, that's why I'm mixing my own blend - I believe I should get a similar amount of Moly in my mix if I pour in the 300ml can in with 5qts of oil into my vq37hr.

you can read the papers here: http://eturkov.blogspot.com/2010/12/truth-about-nissan-ester-oil.html
 
Exactly what leads you to believe that adding MoS2 to an oil rather than using an oil formulated with MoDTC such as the Nissan oil is the proper thing to do?

Want some salt on you fries? Sorry I'm out of NaCl. I've got some NaCN. It's only one letter off, you'll be fine.
smile.gif


Ed
 
Originally Posted By: edhackett
Exactly what leads you to believe that adding MoS2 to an oil rather than using an oil formulated with MoDTC such as the Nissan oil is the proper thing to do?

Want some salt on you fries? Sorry I'm out of NaCl. I've got some NaCN. It's only one letter off, you'll be fine.
smile.gif


Ed


I didn't really know there was a difference. Would anyone care to explain the difference? And if there is a difference, where can I buy an additive to boost moly content in my oil to nissan ester oil levels? I would like to use Amsoil SSO as the base oil.
 
Originally Posted By: edhackett
Exactly what leads you to believe that adding MoS2 to an oil rather than using an oil formulated with MoDTC such as the Nissan oil is the proper thing to do?

Want some salt on you fries? Sorry I'm out of NaCl. I've got some NaCN. It's only one letter off, you'll be fine.
smile.gif


Ed


I think I just answered my own question: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1724011&page=1
 
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