Question for Bob?

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K

Kevin in Texas

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Before the server went down, I had asked a question about which grease to use. You said use a Alm complex grease. Well I have looked high and low and never found one. Until...

... I went into a specialty parts shop that services many shops and I found several tubes of Schaeffer 221 grease. Yeah, I was surprised too. They are going to see if they can also get some oils. But, Before the server crashed, you recommeded a grease that would take care of both the wheel beraings and the steering linkages application, but I don't remember which one it was.

Can you tell me again?

Thanks
 
Not remembering the specifics on your applications I'll tell you this so you can make the choice..

221, is a good all round grease in a automotive application.

238 is a good all round grease for down south in the same but also for heavy equipment. This would include p/u's, and such.

The biggest difference is 238 has a little heavier tac than the 221. Both alum complex, both same oil, both moly based ep.

Since he has the 221 #2, It will work for you no problem.

hope that helps.

BTW, you might tell that sales rep in that area to join the site supporters on this board if he's gonna get sales off of this info provided by us!
grin.gif


[ September 29, 2002, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
 
quote:
Originally posted by BOBISTHEOILGUY:


BTW, you might tell that sales rep in that area to join the site supporters on this board if he's gonna get sales off of this info provided by us!
grin.gif

Click to expand...
Will do.

Thanks again!
 
quote:
Originally posted by BOBISTHEOILGUY:
Not remembering the specifics on your applications I'll tell you this so you can make the choice..

221, is a good all round grease in a automotive application.

238 is a good all round grease for down south in the same but also for heavy equipment. This would include p/u's, and such.

The biggest difference is 238 has a little heavier tac than the 221. Both alum complex, both same oil, both moly based ep.

Since he has the 221 #2, It will work for you no problem.

hope that helps.

BTW, you might tell that sales rep in that area to join the site supporters on this board if he's gonna get sales off of this info provided by us!
grin.gif

Click to expand...
Bob, when I was looking for Alm complex greases, all I could find was Lith complex. I checked Pennzoil, Quaker State, Havoline, etc and all I could find was Lith based.

Why is that?

Why does just a few like Schaeffer use lith alternatives?
 
Cost. Many oil companies are gas companies. Oil is a secondary product to them. They look at what sells, and in a lot of cases, like motor oils, lith will work fine, but... if you are wanting to really extend and take extremely good care of your equipment, then you talk with a specialzed lubricant company that carries only lubricants ment to be top grade and usually a little more expensive. Case in point, 1.25 avg cost of tube grease, schaeffers 3.00 and less depending on quanity. Buy IMO, primary reason lith is most common, cheap to make, and generally an ok versertile product that works ok in most standard applications.
 
quote:
Originally posted by BOBISTHEOILGUY:
Cost. Many oil companies are gas companies. Oil is a secondary product to them. They look at what sells, and in a lot of cases, like motor oils, lith will work fine, but... if you are wanting to really extend and take extremely good care of your equipment, then you talk with a specialzed lubricant company that carries only lubricants ment to be top grade and usually a little more expensive. Case in point, 1.25 avg cost of tube grease, schaeffers 3.00 and less depending on quanity. Buy IMO, primary reason lith is most common, cheap to make, and generally an ok versertile product that works ok in most standard applications.
Click to expand...
Thanks.

The Schaeffer 221 was $3.59/tube. Cheap in comparison to replacing wheel bearings or ball joints!
 
One last question. Any problems mixing lith with alm complex? Since I am not going to pull apart all joints and clean out the old stuff. Can I just pump in the 221?
 
No problems at all mixing alum.

Let me find my chart and I'll set up a page where you can see the compatibilies of greases.

The only type of grease alum cannot mix with is a bentone clay base. The alum will over take the lith and in time, as you do your standard PM's, you'll find that it will take less to grease it and eventually notice that your grease consumption will be minimized due to the fact that the alum will not wash out and such.
 
Bob

I've wondered why John Deere seemed so dead set against clay based grease using terms like, use of clay based grease will void your warranty,

You chart makes it very clear why John Deere states to never use any clay based grease on any application.

Thanks for the education.

Can you recommend one Schaeffer's NLGI 2 grease that can cover both High speed/high shock/high load applications such as u-joints for farm impliments and low speed/high load applications such as three point hitch and front end loader pivot points on a farm tractor?

Another $35 or so and I'll hit the $250 free shipping mark.
 
quote:
Originally posted by neilw:
Bob

I've wondered why John Deere seemed so dead set against clay based grease using terms like, use of clay based grease will void your warranty,

You chart makes it very clear why John Deere states to never use any clay based grease on any application.

Thanks for the education.

Can you recommend one Schaeffer's NLGI 2 grease that can cover both High speed/high shock/high load applications such as u-joints for farm impliments and low speed/high load applications such as three point hitch and front end loader pivot points on a farm tractor?

Another $35 or so and I'll hit the $250 free shipping mark.
Click to expand...
No problem, really enjoy helping.

As for the recommendations, in your situation, I'd use the 238#2 http://www.schaefferoil.com/data/238.html . When ever you're ready contact me and I can take care of you for that order.
offtopic.gif
BTW, where in central texas are you? I have inlaws we go to see in brownwood and may tx, friends that live in Buda, and austin, spent 12 yrs east texas, and a couple in arlington.
 
Bob
Thanks again for the education.

I live near Glen Rose.
offtopic.gif
If you transit Flordia to Brownwood via Texarkanna you may just pass right through Glen Rose on Hwy 67.

I'll be looking for your Escort roaring thru town.
 
Bob, I'm trying to pick the correct #221 or 238. Currently using lithium complex tubes (Sta-Lube). It's for automotive use, primarily balljoints, ujoints, driveshaft slips, etc. Needs to resist washout from offroad activity. Temperature extremes are between -10f (rarely) to 110f (also rarely). The tech data seems to indicate all would work but that 221 #1 and #2 would wash out more easily. Please help me decipher the runes.

Thanks,
David
 
David,
where you're at, I'd suggest the 221 # 2. It will not wash out like you'd think, although the 238 is stronger in that area of being heavier/thicker, I can assure you the 221 #2 will still be there also.The 221 #2 is a great all area grease that you really can't go wrong with no matter where you're at, but if you have a choice, 238 can be advantagous as well in some warmer areas. Do not use a #1 grease in an automotive application. This is too thin.

[ October 03, 2002, 06:51 AM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
 
Some comments about the grease compatibility chart:

1) Incompatible greases typically do two things when mixed relative to testing. First, the Dropping Point is reduced. This is an indication of the temperatures the grease can withstand so this could be an issue in actual service. Second, the Worked Penetration value increases. This is an indication of a change in grade, say, from NLGI 2 to NLGI 1. Again, this could be an issue in actual service.

2) Just because a grease shows as "compatible" on the chart does not necessarily mean that it is. It only means that the thickener systems are compatible. Incompatibilities with the associated additive systems in the respective greases have produced results as described in #1 above.

3) Thus, it's always good to "flush" the application when changing to a different grease by applying the new grease, running the application for a short while and then re-applying more of the new grease to flush out the mixture which might cause what was described in #1 above (assuming you can't remove all of the old grease before applying the new material).
 
quote:
Originally posted by 68redlines73:
Some comments about the grease compatibility chart:

1) Incompatible greases typically do two things when mixed relative to testing. First, the Dropping Point is reduced. This is an indication of the temperatures the grease can withstand so this could be an issue in actual service. Second, the Worked Penetration value increases. This is an indication of a change in grade, say, from NLGI 2 to NLGI 1. Again, this could be an issue in actual service.

2) Just because a grease shows as "compatible" on the chart does not necessarily mean that it is. It only means that the thickener systems are compatible. Incompatibilities with the associated additive systems in the respective greases have produced results as described in #1 above.

3) Thus, it's always good to "flush" the application when changing to a different grease by applying the new grease, running the application for a short while and then re-applying more of the new grease to flush out the mixture which might cause what was described in #1 above (assuming you can't remove all of the old grease before applying the new material).
Click to expand...
Those points are mostly true and is the best way to do a changeover BUT, in the real world, nobody wants the hassel of changing over a grease from the old one by going through all that process, so this chart in respect to schaeffers grease has proven to be quite acurate and has so far worked in every instance I have done a change over with all my clients.

The method I recommend (if not doing a complete cleanout of bearings which as of yet I have had no one want nor has done), is to just start using the schaeffers grease at the normal intervals they currently have been doing, and as time progresses, the schaeffers grease will overtake the existing older grease and will purge out the older grease and will notice a decrease in greasing frequency as it does not wash or milk out.

I have a love hate relationship with schaeffers grease..

I love how it reduces the grease consumption of the companies I have switched over to it, proving how it saves a lot of money for them
grin.gif
BUT I hate the fact that their grease orders diminish over the year to less than half of their original orders they started with
mad.gif
. I can't make a good living if I relied on just this product.
 
Bob

I don't want to starve you.

But, I'm glad I switched to Schaeffer's 238 #2. I spend less time disassembling pto guards to get at u-joint grease fittings. It used to be an every 4 to 8 hours of operation chore. Now I've doubled that interval. The Schaeffer's 238 does not sling out of the joints like the lithium complex did.

Additionally less grease seems to squeeze out of the front end loader pivot points than with the lithium complex.
 
Neil,

offtopic.gif


Ah, the land of Dinosaur tracks captured in the Paluxy River. An interesting place indeed!

Been to the McFall Ranch and photographed them; impressive!
 
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