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#2095088 - 12/04/10 07:21 AM Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis?
ZZman Offline


Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 4228
Loc: Michigan
Do you run it exclusively?

Run it on and off?

Why?
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#2095150 - 12/04/10 09:22 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
Hermann Offline


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 2315
Loc: Kansas City
in our area it is very hard to find, and it is only like 10 cheaper, and if rumour is right it yields about 30% less MPG.

The GF's Mariner can use it but we have passed. It gets horrible mileage anyway with regular unleaded.
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#2095457 - 12/04/10 03:28 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
LS2JSTS Offline


Registered: 09/05/09
Posts: 3844
Loc: Motor City..What's Left
I run it at times, but not exclusively. If the price spread is above .30 cents per gallon I usually run it. A lot of the Meijer gas stations around here carry it.

When I do fill up on E-85, I have noted a mpg hit of about 3 mpg...or roughly 10%. But I also pick up a few HP and TQ.

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#2095475 - 12/04/10 03:59 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: LS2JSTS]
CourierDriver Offline


Registered: 12/27/09
Posts: 2985
Loc: Tennessee
lost 3 mpg, wasnt worth it.
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#2095862 - 12/04/10 11:56 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
beechcraftted Offline


Registered: 12/15/06
Posts: 83
Loc: Milwaukee, WI.
Yep.

Use it every fill up on the flex Suburban and a 50/50 mix in the non-flex Silverado. My total must be over 1,100 gallons by now, as there are 2 stations near me. Think dollars per mile, not miles per gallon.

Although E-85 is hated by many on this site, I can report no operational issues at all. I am neither a tree hugger, nor a corn farmer, but the US is now using gasoline at a rate of 3.7 million gallons per DAY, I figure an alternative has to be found sooner or later. I dunno' if this is that alternative, but it works for me.

Many engines optimized for GASOLINE are being run on ethanol. Imagine if the engines were optimized for ethanol (i.e. higher compression, more agressive spark timing, modified valve timing, etc). There are many reports of the turbo and supercharger guys just loving this stuff.
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#2096226 - 12/05/10 12:32 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: beechcraftted]
CourierDriver Offline


Registered: 12/27/09
Posts: 2985
Loc: Tennessee
Originally Posted By: beechcraftted
Yep.

Use it every fill up on the flex Suburban and a 50/50 mix in the non-flex Silverado. My total must be over 1,100 gallons by now, as there are 2 stations near me. Think dollars per mile, not miles per gallon.

Although E-85 is hated by many on this site, I can report no operational issues at all. I am neither a tree hugger, nor a corn farmer, but the US is now using gasoline at a rate of 3.7 million gallons per DAY, I figure an alternative has to be found sooner or later. I dunno' if this is that alternative, but it works for me.

Many engines optimized for GASOLINE are being run on ethanol. Imagine if the engines were optimized for ethanol (i.e. higher compression, more agressive spark timing, modified valve timing, etc). There are many reports of the turbo and supercharger guys just loving this stuff.



I never had any engine or mechanical trouble running it,,now i will say if I ran it half and half the mileage did improve, but not enough to make me switch,,but it did not harm my engine or gas tank,,but I run 2 cycle oil all the time in the gas. one oz to 5 gallons of gas and no issues there either.
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#2096983 - 12/06/10 01:24 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: LS2JSTS]
Summerwind Offline


Registered: 05/30/10
Posts: 371
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
I run it at times, but not exclusively. If the price spread is above .30 cents per gallon I usually run it. A lot of the Meijer gas stations around here carry it.

When I do fill up on E-85, I have noted a mpg hit of about 3 mpg...or roughly 10%. But I also pick up a few HP and TQ.


Same here, mileage takes a decent hit, but the big girl will really get up and run on it. Unfortunatly, for the mileage hit, the price has been eeking-up too close to that of 89oct, so I havn't got any in a while frown
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#2123539 - 01/01/11 08:48 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
Cujet Offline


Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 4089
Loc: Jupiter, Florida
As I mentioned in my other thread, my 2009 F150 5.4L Flex Fuel pickup loves the stuff. No operational issues and plenty of additional performance. Especially during the hot season (where the knock sensor pulls timing and power on reg gas).

I use it from time to time, when I need gas and am by the E-85 pump.
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#2124170 - 01/01/11 09:22 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
KW Offline


Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 1685
Loc: Central Arkansas
I use it on and off, mostly when the price spread makes it a worth while. The best mix for me seems to be about 50/50 E10 and E85 in my 98 Jeep and 96 Dodge 5.2.

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#2134909 - 01/11/11 09:31 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
rslifkin Offline


Registered: 06/27/10
Posts: 2192
Loc: Stamford, CT / Rochester, NY
I'm planning on giving it a shot at some point in the Jeep, particularly if the increase in gas prices opens up the price spread a bit more. If it likes it, I'll probably do it a good bit (when I'm up at school, no E-85 stations at home).
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#2182309 - 02/26/11 09:54 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
rangerfan24 Offline


Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 214
Loc: New York
Soon to have an escape FFV in the family: my thoughts...feel free to discuss!

I feel ethanol, sadly, is viewed by people as something that needs to be cheaper than gasoline. While it does need to be somewhat economically reasonable, the benefits of ethanol are not to just go green/cheap. Ethanol, regardless of wether or not it costs more, provides, believe it or not, some form of protection and national security against the unstable world of the middle east and its oil. The world is getting turbulent, and do you really want the other countries to have the US by the balls over oil? Sure we could go to war for oil, (like we kinda sort of did), but you must ask yourself as an american: am I willing to kill young men and women, and have them maimed, and leave their families missing a member, JUST so that I can have my cheap gasoline? Answer yes, and well....good luck to you. But I think ethanol should be viewed as worth it, even if it costs more, just for the economic security. Additionally, we are humans, engineers.We can do almost anything we put our minds to. Im sure when the airplane came out, it was not seen as an efficient mode of transportation. Add some human ingenuity and look at that, we can send 350 people across the country doing 550 mph in 777 using only a tad bit more of fuel in the grand sceem of things as it would take a car.I plan on filling up with ethanol when I can, because although it may be inefficient now, if there is support for the development of technology, it will be made efficient. Changing fuel sources is hard work; it is not going to happen over night. But the benefits, I assure you, will be worth it. Think of all the money that would be saved future conflicts/current conflicts we werent addicted to oil. Thats a lot of rebates to be had for farmers producing ethanol....feel free to comment! discussion and compromise are key to the progress of civilization ;-)


Edited by rangerfan24 (02/26/11 09:55 AM)

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#2186012 - 03/01/11 06:07 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: rangerfan24]
Cujet Offline


Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 4089
Loc: Jupiter, Florida
Originally Posted By: rangerfan24
Soon to have an escape FFV in the family: my thoughts...feel free to discuss!

1) {ethanol provides some} protection and national security against the unstable world of the middle east and its oil.

2) it may be inefficient now, if there is support for the development of technology, it will be made efficient.

3) we can send 350 people across the country doing 550 mph in 777 using only a tad bit more of fuel


1) I think this is a possibility, especially as we produce more and more.

2) It's not inefficient anymore. Crop yields are much higher now, GM crops perform better and better enzymes are helping too. I suspect sugar and sugar beets are going to make inroads.

3) Large airliners are often better than 50 passenger miles per gallon. That's better than the typical car with 2 aboard, and compares very well with 3 in a typical car. (except for the wasted time in said car) The reason is that flying covers 25% fewer miles on average. The very same comparison applies to trains. Aircraft travel 25% fewer miles.
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#2186021 - 03/01/11 06:10 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
Cujet Offline


Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 4089
Loc: Jupiter, Florida
I also wanted to add that E85 works very well in direct injected, very high compression, turbocharged engines. In fact, there are some experimental engines that are equaling the diesel's thermal efficiency on E85! This translates into much smaller engines, with high output and acceptable E85 MPG's, said to be on par with gasoline.
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Turbo's rule.

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#2218712 - 04/01/11 11:41 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
Rican Offline


Registered: 09/27/08
Posts: 83
Loc: Houston, TX (Puerto Rico)
Been filling up my 2006 Turbo Scion tC for about 2 years now, boost comes in about 350 rpm sooner and much more linear. For those that keet annoyed by turbo lag, it's a nice plus. She put down 303whp/298tq on 93 pump with about 11-11.5psi. With E85 she nailed 305.7whp/307tq on only 8-8.5psi. She loves this stuff and I have the peace of mind of keeping detonation accidents to a minimum. All said and done I lost about 3mpg, down to 22 from 25 on average. It's about 40 to 50 cents cheaper over here.
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#2254379 - 05/07/11 11:33 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
beanoil Offline


Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 1966
Loc: Midwest, Illinois
Regular unleaded 3.98 . E85 is 3.19 . There is no contest. The flexfuel Grand Caravan gets E85.
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beanoil: Tough under heat, real dirty afterwards.

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#2255071 - 05/08/11 12:59 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
Barkleymut Offline


Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 2429
Loc: Richmond, VA
I have never ever seen it for sale here in VA. I would like to try it on my wifes FF T&C just for curiosity. That van is super slow and I would like to give it a little more kick. That said I would only continue to use it if economically it made sense.
_________________________
09 Vue(95K) 2.4 4spd AT -PU 5w30 / 09 Flex(52K)3.5L PU / Moms car 04 Pilot(105K) 5w20 PP + Puro

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#2255486 - 05/09/11 12:54 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
JasonC Offline


Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 402
Loc: Lynchburg, Va
There are several places in Va that sell E85 one is in Charlottesville and one is in Norfolk and I think there is one in Northern Va.
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2004 Ford Mustang Cobra
2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8 Procharged
2012 Dodge Charger R/T Max
2014 Dodge Charger R/T Plus 100th Ann. Ed.

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#2256135 - 05/09/11 05:51 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
wavinwayne Offline


Registered: 01/06/05
Posts: 7519
Loc: North Alabama
I did a 50/50 fill of E85/92 Octane gas today in my non-FFV '00 GTI 1.8L Turbo. Could be all in my head, but Little Red seems a little "peppier" with the 50/50 ethanol/gas brew.
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#2258566 - 05/12/11 06:53 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: wavinwayne]
CourierDriver Offline


Registered: 12/27/09
Posts: 2985
Loc: Tennessee
I have tried it at least half dozen times in my old dodge 318 v8, the results were all the same, poor mileage, dont waste ur money. It ran ok, it just used more gas.
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Everything I needed to know I learned in Kindergarten, the rest was forced education...

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#2259810 - 05/13/11 09:14 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
beechcraftted Offline


Registered: 12/15/06
Posts: 83
Loc: Milwaukee, WI.
I agreee with Cujet. It appears that in newer direct injection, higher compression, turbo/super charged engines, E-85 can be very competitive. But in some older lower compression designs, it does not fare as well. Imagine if the engine were optimized at manufacture for E-85, instead of gasoline. Think dollars per mile, not miles per gallon.

I am neither a tree hugger nor a farmer, but we are using 3.7 million gallons of gasoline per day. Given the politics of the day, some alternative will have to be added. Don't know if ethanol is it, but it works for me.
_________________________
'66 Chevelle, 496 big block - Rotella 15/40
'69 Corvette, 427, 4 speed
'70 Rebel "Machine", 390, 4 speed
'04 Suburban, 5.3
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#2260290 - 05/13/11 06:52 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
Rican Offline


Registered: 09/27/08
Posts: 83
Loc: Houston, TX (Puerto Rico)
hey way, careful with the mix. It helps to have an AFR gauge and something that can read you short/long term fuel trims like scangauge II, whenever you play with blends.

By the way it's not your head playing tricks, it's the E85/boosted combo powa!


Edited by Rican (05/13/11 06:54 PM)

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#2272576 - 05/27/11 05:08 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
crinkles Offline


Registered: 05/28/07
Posts: 5476
Loc: World
I'd love to get an E85 capable Holden Commodore - but there are only a few E85 pumps and only in the capital cities, none in the country.

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#2307991 - 07/06/11 05:27 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
DaryleWB Offline


Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 49
Loc: West Virginia
I've been using E85 in my '88 VW Vanagon (Whitelighting conversion kit) for about 5000 miles now. I get about 10-15% less MPG than with E10 87 octane. I get 21 MPG on pump gas and about 18-19 on summer E85 (which is actually closer to E95.)
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Daryle W. B.
'88 Vanagon - 30wt G-Oil
'99 Subaru Impreza - 5w-30 G-Oil

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#2313385 - 07/12/11 07:23 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: beanoil]
bearda Offline


Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 67
Loc: Germantown, MD
Originally Posted By: beanoil
Regular unleaded 3.98 . E85 is 3.19 . There is no contest. The flexfuel Grand Caravan gets E85.


At that point I'd at least consider it. Here in the Maryland the difference is about 15-20 cents.

I got a tank of E85 exactly once when I was returning a truck we had rented to the local Enterprise. It had the flex fuel logo on the back, and all they cared about was that the tank was full.
_________________________
2006 Mazda3 2.3L, PU 5W-20
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#2317571 - 07/16/11 10:16 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
outoforder Offline


Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 355
Loc: Ohio
If it wasn't for the generous subsidies enjoyed by the ethanol industry, their product would cost more than gasoline and no one would buy it.
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The solution to pollution is dilution.

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#2359910 - 08/28/11 07:32 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
DaryleWB Offline


Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 49
Loc: West Virginia
I've gone about 6000 miles in my '88 Vanagon using E85 (with a WhiteLightning conversion module.)

I get about 15% less range on a tank, but do get more power and the engine seems to like it better than it does petrol.

If your tank has a lot of crud in it, you may need to change your fuel filter after you run some through. It will clean things out very well.
I've moved to a place without an E-85 pump within about 100 miles or so. Haven't used it since.
_________________________
Daryle W. B.
'88 Vanagon - 30wt G-Oil
'99 Subaru Impreza - 5w-30 G-Oil

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#2465787 - 12/17/11 08:09 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: DaryleWB]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
Been running E85 for over a yr now. No problems to report. Did my own tune to optimize using it.
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Amsoil 0W20 Amsoil filter 02 5.4L F-150
All fluids are Amsoil products.

2013 Explorer Sport Amsoil 5W20/Wix wife's SUV
I was made in the USA

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#2480074 - 01/02/12 10:11 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
I run it 100% of the time. It can be used as a race gas also. I have tuned the ECM for it also. Truck is a whole lot more fun now to drive. This is on a nonflex fuel vehicle. Love the cold/hot starts.
_________________________
Amsoil 0W20 Amsoil filter 02 5.4L F-150
All fluids are Amsoil products.

2013 Explorer Sport Amsoil 5W20/Wix wife's SUV
I was made in the USA

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#2484670 - 01/06/12 12:37 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: kaboom10]
zoli Offline


Registered: 05/22/11
Posts: 162
Loc: Hungary
Trial period: last 3 fuelings with 20, 25 and 33% E85. No negative effect, but better acceleration at WOT. Max. 40% recommended without any modification.
E85 is cheaper like gas by 17% and available very well at countryside in Hungary.
Consumption is worst by approx. 5-10%.
No fuel filter change - did anybody check the changed filter for dirt?


Edited by zoli (01/06/12 12:48 PM)
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#2484722 - 01/06/12 01:37 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: zoli]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
IIRC 35% is the max limit you can use without retuning. If you are running 100% E85 don't go adding gasoline to it. I tried it with my E85 tune and the truck didn't like it. If you have a flexfuel vehicle it would probably be ok.
_________________________
Amsoil 0W20 Amsoil filter 02 5.4L F-150
All fluids are Amsoil products.

2013 Explorer Sport Amsoil 5W20/Wix wife's SUV
I was made in the USA

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#2484785 - 01/06/12 02:34 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: kaboom10]
zoli Offline


Registered: 05/22/11
Posts: 162
Loc: Hungary
Originally Posted By: kaboom10
...If you are running 100% E85 don't go adding gasoline to it. I tried it with my E85 tune and the truck didn't like it. If you have a flexfuel vehicle it would probably be ok...

It's not FFV - but thinking on to tune it; gas price now hits the sky here: USD 6.4 per US Gallon
_________________________
MY98 SAAB 9-5 LPT ECO SE B205E * 250K+ miles
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#2484806 - 01/06/12 02:48 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: zoli]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
I thought so. Mine isn't either. I have a tuning program and larger injectors to cover the larger volume needed to keep from going lean. It's like race gas and I've increased the spark and fuel. Tire burner now.
_________________________
Amsoil 0W20 Amsoil filter 02 5.4L F-150
All fluids are Amsoil products.

2013 Explorer Sport Amsoil 5W20/Wix wife's SUV
I was made in the USA

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#2484812 - 01/06/12 02:50 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: kaboom10]
zoli Offline


Registered: 05/22/11
Posts: 162
Loc: Hungary
Originally Posted By: kaboom10
...I have a tuning program and larger injectors to cover the larger volume needed to keep from going lean. It's like race gas and I've increased the spark and fuel. Tire burner now.

My target as well!!!
cheers
_________________________
MY98 SAAB 9-5 LPT ECO SE B205E * 250K+ miles
Synthetic 0/5W-40, Mann O/F, 6K miles OCI

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#2484822 - 01/06/12 03:07 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: zoli]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
I have no idea who would retune your vehicle. My program is for my Ford. Use injectors at least 35% larger than stock.
_________________________
Amsoil 0W20 Amsoil filter 02 5.4L F-150
All fluids are Amsoil products.

2013 Explorer Sport Amsoil 5W20/Wix wife's SUV
I was made in the USA

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#2491043 - 01/12/12 10:06 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
DaryleWB Offline


Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 49
Loc: West Virginia
If anyone ever puts a station with an E85 pump in my area, then I'm planning on building my engine for E85 only, allowing me to negate many of the perceived drawbacks of running E85.

Hopefully they do soon. The engine is going strong, but it has a lot of miles on it; hard miles. For many of them, the van was not well taken care of. The PO abused it, neglected it and didn't talk to it. Rebuild time is coming.
_________________________
Daryle W. B.
'88 Vanagon - 30wt G-Oil
'99 Subaru Impreza - 5w-30 G-Oil

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#2491074 - 01/12/12 10:34 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: DaryleWB]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
Originally Posted By: DaryleWB
If anyone ever puts a station with an E85 pump in my area, then I'm planning on building my engine for E85 only, allowing me to negate many of the perceived drawbacks of running E85.

Hopefully they do soon. The engine is going strong, but it has a lot of miles on it; hard miles. For many of them, the van was not well taken care of. The PO abused it, neglected it and didn't talk to it. Rebuild time is coming.

And what are you specifically going to do to build the motor for E85? Besides tuning I have only installed larger injectors and E3 spark plugs. Original engine has never been opened up.
_________________________
Amsoil 0W20 Amsoil filter 02 5.4L F-150
All fluids are Amsoil products.

2013 Explorer Sport Amsoil 5W20/Wix wife's SUV
I was made in the USA

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#2491443 - 01/12/12 03:45 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: kaboom10]
DaryleWB Offline


Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 49
Loc: West Virginia
Higher compression ratio, most importantly, to take advantage of the increased thermal efficiency that ethanol is capable of. I'd like to get to 13.5:1. A friend of mine has an aircooled type 1 1915 that is just producing power and torque swimmingly at that CR. If an aircooled can do it, I figure I can with a water cooled...

I'm also planning to retrofit solid lifters, because they are make more sense and satisfy my sense of involvement and an Engal 110 Cam.

I have not found that extra capacity injectors are needed. The stock injectors on the 2.1 WBX seem more than capable of dealing with the extra capacity that E85 demands.
_________________________
Daryle W. B.
'88 Vanagon - 30wt G-Oil
'99 Subaru Impreza - 5w-30 G-Oil

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#2491540 - 01/12/12 05:09 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: DaryleWB]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
Sounds like a good plan. I'm using additional spark and A/F to take advantage of the high octane. Still I would go at least 35% larger on the injectors and that doesn't cover the horse power increase from the CR jump. Flow is based on the HP produced.
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#2491617 - 01/12/12 06:36 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
DaryleWB Offline


Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 49
Loc: West Virginia
I do use E3 plugs and absolutely am thrilled by them. My engine is happy with the stock injectors as it is. I expect I'll be fine with them after the rebuild.

My goal is not increased HP. The current flow, even in my stock configuration (with the additional FI pulse provided by the White Lightning kit) provides plenty of power... more than stock. I am driving a bus. I wouldn't want to be too fast. That would just be unnatural.
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#2501645 - 01/21/12 07:48 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
harbor Offline


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 202
Loc: Rochester Hills, MI
I tried a few E-85 tankfuls at $2.99/gal from Meijers, but when the temps recently dropped, my Pentastar 3.6L began to really struggle with cold starts. Rather than get the engine block heater recommended by Chrysler, I switched back to regular unleaded gas and the problem resolved itself.

Here's the blurb on E85 from the owners manual:

"The characteristics of E-85 fuel make it unsuitable for use
when ambient temperatures fall below 0F (-18C). In the
range of 0F (-18C) to 32F (0C), you may experience an
increase in the time it takes for your engine to start, and
a deterioration in driveability (sags and/or hesitations)
until the engine is fully warmed up.
NOTE: Use of the engine block heater (if equipped) is
beneficial for E-85 startability when the ambient temperature
is less than 32F (0C)."
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#2501664 - 01/21/12 08:08 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: harbor]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
Originally Posted By: harbor
I tried a few E-85 tankfuls at $2.99/gal from Meijers, but when the temps recently dropped, my Pentastar 3.6L began to really struggle with cold starts. Rather than get the engine block heater recommended by Chrysler, I switched back to regular unleaded gas and the problem resolved itself.

Here's the blurb on E85 from the owners manual:

"The characteristics of E-85 fuel make it unsuitable for use
when ambient temperatures fall below 0F (-18C). In the
range of 0F (-18C) to 32F (0C), you may experience an
increase in the time it takes for your engine to start, and
a deterioration in driveability (sags and/or hesitations)
until the engine is fully warmed up.
NOTE: Use of the engine block heater (if equipped) is
beneficial for E-85 startability when the ambient temperature
is less than 32F (0C)."


I'm not far from you and I have no problem with cold starts. I also have my cold start values richer than stock.
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#2501893 - 01/22/12 06:19 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: kaboom10]
zoli Offline


Registered: 05/22/11
Posts: 162
Loc: Hungary
I was proposed to change the fuel filter after couple of fuelings of E85 (ethanol will clean the fuel tank & lines and this dirt will clog the filter).
After 750 km with up to 40% E85 in the gas + approx. 22,000 miles gas (95): it was waste of money to change... smirk







Edited by zoli (01/22/12 06:20 AM)
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#2502544 - 01/22/12 05:44 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: zoli]
Garak Online   content


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11155
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: zoli
I was proposed to change the fuel filter after couple of fuelings of E85 (ethanol will clean the fuel tank & lines and this dirt will clog the filter).
After 750 km with up to 40% E85 in the gas + approx. 22,000 miles gas (95): it was waste of money to change... smirk


Well, you gave us some pretty pictures, anyhow. I always wondered what the European fuel filters would look like opened up. I wish the North Americans and Japanese would use them. Heck, the old Audi's fuel filter was bigger than the oil filter!
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#2565513 - 03/12/12 06:36 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: beechcraftted]
acceptablename Offline


Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 45
Loc: Minnesota
Koenigsegg CCXR anyone? 1100hp on e85, 850 on high octane gas.
Originally Posted By: beechcraftted
Yep.

Use it every fill up on the flex Suburban and a 50/50 mix in the non-flex Silverado. My total must be over 1,100 gallons by now, as there are 2 stations near me. Think dollars per mile, not miles per gallon.

Although E-85 is hated by many on this site, I can report no operational issues at all. I am neither a tree hugger, nor a corn farmer, but the US is now using gasoline at a rate of 3.7 million gallons per DAY, I figure an alternative has to be found sooner or later. I dunno' if this is that alternative, but it works for me.

Many engines optimized for GASOLINE are being run on ethanol. Imagine if the engines were optimized for ethanol (i.e. higher compression, more agressive spark timing, modified valve timing, etc). There are many reports of the turbo and supercharger guys just loving this stuff.

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#2565879 - 03/12/12 11:58 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: zoli]
zoli Offline


Registered: 05/22/11
Posts: 162
Loc: Hungary
Originally Posted By: zoli
Trial period: last 3 fuelings with 20, 25 and 33% E85. No negative effect, but better acceleration at WOT. Max. 40% recommended without any modification.
E85 is cheaper like gas by 17% and available very well at countryside in Hungary.
Consumption is worst by approx. 5-10%.
No fuel filter change - did anybody check the changed filter for dirt?

Last one: 45% E85 in the tank, but approx. 15% higher consumption; little bad, but still good cold/warm start-up + great torque! Only 1 negative remark: the high mile-aged oxygen sensor tries to handle well this mixture, so several tests are running during the cruising (open/closed loop); will be difficult to pass the local EPA (OBD) test with this mixture at the end of March...
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#2565931 - 03/13/12 02:47 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: zoli]
zoli Offline


Registered: 05/22/11
Posts: 162
Loc: Hungary
Just a quick calculation cost efficient point of view - full tank:
E85 = bio-ethanol with 15% gasoline (octane # is around 105)
EN96 = pure gas, octane #95

100% EN95
Gasoline: 410 HUF per L x 65 L with EN95 = 26650 HUF (USD 120)
Consumption = 8.5 L per 100 km (measured by board computer)
Mileage = 765 km per tank
Specific fuel cost = 3485 HUF per 100 km = USD 15.7 per 100 km = USD 25.1 per 100 miles

or

55% EN95 + 45% E85
E85: 329 HUF per L x 30 L = 9870 HUF
EN95: 410 HUF per L x 35 L with EN95 = 14350 HUF
24220 HUF per tank
Consumption = 9.8 L per 100 km (measured by board computer)
Mileage = 663 km per tank
Specific fuel cost = 3651 HUF per 100 km = USD 16.4 per 100 km = USD 26.2 per 100 miles

Sorry to see, but it's not economic for my vallet, but environment friendly + much more BHP!!! LOL
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#2878723 - 01/21/13 08:58 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: zoli]
zpa Offline


Registered: 11/10/09
Posts: 42
Loc: Finland
Hi there. I figured I'd do the same math for Finland at the moment. 98RON gas average price 1.67eur/l, E85 1.08eur/l.

GAS 8.5l/100km*1.67eur/l= 14.19eur/100km = 30.43USD/100m.
E85 12.3l/100km*1.08eur/l= 13.28eur/100km = 28.46USD/100m.

The 8.5 consumption for gasoline may be a little optimistic as I don't have long term data for it. 12.3 is an average over approx 20k kms on pure E85. Plus the fact that the ethanol comes from waste feedstocks. I'm not complaining smile
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#2940518 - 03/16/13 11:42 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
getnpsi Offline


Registered: 10/30/07
Posts: 693
Loc: Fontana, California
With a 40% ethanol blend my car's computer had to add 15% more fuel to compensate. When it's down in the 20% ethanol range it's neglible. there is a threshold to play with in nonE85 cars and it's about 25% as posted numerous times from several people out there.
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#3073362 - 07/22/13 06:34 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 948
Loc: Kellogg, IA
I have had my 2013 Silverado 1500 5.3L flex fuel for two month. It got the initial fill from the dealer with E10 and a subsequent two fills with E10. Drive primarily two lane hard top, gravel rural roads, with a little in town thrown in. Rolling hills on all of it. The average mpg for all of that was 17 mpg. Haven't had a serious road trip to see what max mpg would be.

Since the first 3 fills, the pickup has been on an exclusively E85 diet. Before the first fill of E85, we ran the tank down to fumes to get an accurate idea of mpg with E85. Several tankfuls of E85 and the average mpg is around 14 mpg over the same roads as I mentioned in the first paragraph.

Now, Regular is currently going for $3.46 in my area. That equates to ballpark $.20 a mile fuel cost using regular fuel at the 17 mpg I mentioned.

For the E85, it currently is priced at $2.49 in my area, and that equates to just over 17.5 cents per mile cost at the E85 mpg number of 14.

So.... no brainer. The pickup will live on a diet of E85 until the cost per mile shifts the other way.
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#3073367 - 07/22/13 06:41 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: DaryleWB]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 948
Loc: Kellogg, IA
Originally Posted By: DaryleWB
If anyone ever puts a station with an E85 pump in my area, then I'm planning on building my engine for E85 only, allowing me to negate many of the perceived drawbacks of running E85.

Hopefully they do soon. The engine is going strong, but it has a lot of miles on it; hard miles. For many of them, the van was not well taken care of. The PO abused it, neglected it and didn't talk to it. Rebuild time is coming.


That is what I would like... an engine built with compression and other features to take advantage of the higher ethanol and turn in better performance and mpg numbers that are capable with ethanol. I would like to have a pure E85 ONLY engine. We are swimming in ethanol in my area and a proper engine with E85 would be a killer combination.
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#3073647 - 07/23/13 02:17 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: DaryleWB]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7087
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: kaboom10
I have no idea who would retune your vehicle. My program is for my Ford. Use injectors at least 35% larger than stock.


A simple sct tuner will advance timing and add fuel for running e85

Originally Posted By: DaryleWB
I do use E3 plugs and absolutely am thrilled by them. My engine is happy with the stock injectors as it is. I expect I'll be fine with them after the rebuild.

My goal is not increased HP. The current flow, even in my stock configuration (with the additional FI pulse provided by the White Lightning kit) provides plenty of power... more than stock. I am driving a bus. I wouldn't want to be too fast. That would just be unnatural.



I've gotta say I'm impressed with those e3 plugs. Made a noticeable difference in the mustang for sure. I think I'm going to stick with them.
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#3073678 - 07/23/13 05:08 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: zoli]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 14525
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: zoli
Sorry to see, but it's not economic for my vallet, but environment friendly + much more BHP!!! LOL


A matter of opinion, certainly not a fact. More downsides than up, even in a vehicle that can 'kind of' utilize it.

I LOVE the way my flex fuel 6.0 runs on E85 but after a lot of research I am no fan of alcohol in an IC engine. Too many BAD exhaust byproducts that end in "zene"!
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#3088105 - 08/06/13 09:47 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
oldhp Offline


Registered: 06/28/12
Posts: 780
Loc: Southern Illinois
Added 9.4gals for 50/50 mixture E85 to wife's '12 2.4 Equinox.
Was getting firm 29+MPG with reg 87 E10. Ran 200 miles, filled back up, 24.85MPG. Minus 4MPG, at 99.99% highway driving at 65MPH.
No Thanks. That's pitiful, and it didn't run any better.
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#3097298 - 08/16/13 02:09 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
Geoff Offline


Registered: 05/16/04
Posts: 547
Loc: Austin, TX
The 2014 Silverado makes 25 more hp and 33/lbft on E85. Some dyno testing results:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302805&highlight=2014+silverado+e85

It will be interesting to see other engines tuned more aggressively on E85 from the factory.
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#3097323 - 08/16/13 02:48 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Geoff]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
Impressive but expected. I once put a gallon of either acetone or toluene in with my gasoline and felt a marked difference. Alcohol makes great race gas so when it was going to be 85% I expected something. I have modified the stock tune to use it with the higher amount of alcohol changing stoic and timing. It's a day and night difference.
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#3097340 - 08/16/13 03:17 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: kaboom10]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2469
Loc: Upper Midwest
You don't know which one? If it was alcohol, what kind? Where did you get it? And you put a gallon in with how much?

Looking back at some of your previous your posts you put a lot in your engines. Amsoil fuel system conditioner, Rislone, acetone, alcohol, Auto-Rx, zMax, Lucas - what else? What are you getting from all that?

Originally Posted By: kaboom10
Impressive but expected. I once put a gallon of either acetone or toluene in with my gasoline and felt a marked difference. Alcohol makes great race gas so when it was going to be 85% I expected something. I have modified the stock tune to use it with the higher amount of alcohol changing stoic and timing. It's a day and night difference.
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#3097439 - 08/16/13 05:54 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: kschachn]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
[quote=kschachn]You don't know which one? If it was alcohol, what kind? Where did you get it? And you put a gallon in with how much?

Looking back at some of your previous your posts you put a lot in your engines. Amsoil fuel system conditioner, Rislone, acetone, alcohol, Auto-Rx, zMax, Lucas - what else? What are you getting from all that?

If I knew which one I put in I would have said so. It was near a full tank of gas that a 57 chevy holds. Maybe 16 gals.?
I got it from work when I worked at Holley carb. We got into a tremendously large gasket replacement program and thought I would try this concoction with an experimental gasket. I got the try this bug from my dad who tried things. I try the same liquids in family members cars along with mine. Just because it doesn't work in mine it doesn't mean it doesn't work as I get more results from the family than I do for myself in some instances. That's one of the fun jobs at Holley seeing what worked and how much better. Same with McCord gasket as they had NASCAR parts we would try in our race car or street hot rod. I am an experimenter.
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#3097449 - 08/16/13 06:13 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: kaboom10]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7087
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: kaboom10
Impressive but expected. I once put a gallon of either acetone or toluene in with my gasoline and felt a marked difference. Alcohol makes great race gas so when it was going to be 85% I expected something. I have modified the stock tune to use it with the higher amount of alcohol changing stoic and timing. It's a day and night difference.


Funny you mention acetone and toluene. Both are over 120 octane and they will both reduce the surface tension of gasoline which enables the gas to atomize faster and burn more completely which helps use more of the energy contained in the gasoline.
I routinely mix acetone and tc-w3 and add it to every tank of every gasoline burning engine I own or maintain. The engine runs more smoothly with less vibration and the vehicle feels more responsive.
My lawn mower really chews through tall grass easier and bogs less with my Frankenbrew in the fuel.
1 quart acetone per 100 litres fuel and 5-6 ounces tc-w3.
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#3097567 - 08/16/13 08:33 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Clevy]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
Quote:
Funny you mention acetone and toluene. Both are over 120 octane and they will both reduce the surface tension of gasoline which enables the gas to atomize faster and burn more completely which helps use more of the energy contained in the gasoline.
I routinely mix acetone and tc-w3 and add it to every tank of every gasoline burning engine I own or maintain. The engine runs more smoothly with less vibration and the vehicle feels more responsive.
My lawn mower really chews through tall grass easier and bogs less with my Frankenbrew in the fuel.
1 quart acetone per 100 litres fuel and 5-6 ounces tc-w3.

I know very little about the why of why that would work but since it, the acetone, evaporated so fast I knew it had to do something good. What exactly is tc-w3? Love to have that in the tank when I hit the drag strip.
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#3097582 - 08/16/13 08:59 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: kaboom10]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7087
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: kaboom10
Quote:
Funny you mention acetone and toluene. Both are over 120 octane and they will both reduce the surface tension of gasoline which enables the gas to atomize faster and burn more completely which helps use more of the energy contained in the gasoline.
I routinely mix acetone and tc-w3 and add it to every tank of every gasoline burning engine I own or maintain. The engine runs more smoothly with less vibration and the vehicle feels more responsive.
My lawn mower really chews through tall grass easier and bogs less with my Frankenbrew in the fuel.
1 quart acetone per 100 litres fuel and 5-6 ounces tc-w3.

I know very little about the why of why that would work but since it, the acetone, evaporated so fast I knew it had to do something good. What exactly is tc-w3? Love to have that in the tank when I hit the drag strip.


Tc-w3 is ashless 2 stroke oil. I use it as an upper cylinder lube.
Xylene works good too and is cheaper than acetone and toluene. Adding that stuff made my nitrous hits harder with the same jetting.
I use my home brew in every tank of fuel I burn. I've found that the cost is minimal compared to how much better my engines run.
I really notice it in my mower,generators and air compressors. There's no lag when draw is applied.
I've found that any more than 100-1 ratio is a waste since that seems to be the tipping point.
Nice to read about someone else using it and seeing positive results.
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#3097768 - 08/17/13 06:26 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Clevy]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
Quote:
Tc-w3 is ashless 2 stroke oil. I use it as an upper cylinder lube.
Xylene works good too and is cheaper than acetone and toluene. Adding that stuff made my nitrous hits harder with the same jetting.
I use my home brew in every tank of fuel I burn. I've found that the cost is minimal compared to how much better my engines run.
I really notice it in my mower, generators and air compressors. There's no lag when draw is applied.
I've found that any more than 100-1 ratio is a waste since that seems to be the tipping point.
Nice to read about someone else using it and seeing positive results.


Should be ez to make that mix as I have a 25 gallon fuel tank in my truck. I've always been a back yard hot rodder looking for an edge.
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#3122211 - 09/12/13 03:45 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: kaboom10]
01rangerxl Offline


Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 7160
Loc: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: kaboom10


I'm not far from you and I have no problem with cold starts. I also have my cold start values richer than stock.


On newer vehicles, they've probably figured out how to get around cold start issues. This was common on older FFVs though. My truck takes much longer to crank up when running E85 in very cold weather. On straight gas it will crank right up no matter the temperature.

As far as running E85 on a regular basis, my truck has been run on plain gas (mostly 87 octane) and E85 throughout its life. Usually it has only seen E85 during warmer months due to the slow cold starting on E85, but over the last decade it has seen many tankfuls. Performance is noticeably better with E85 and the engine runs absolutely silky smooth on it. Fuel economy is horrible though. It's about a 4 MPG hit on average, bringing fuel economy down to the low teens.

With my truck, E85 did seem to cause slightly accelerated spark plug wear. The OEM "100K mile" plugs looked pretty worn at 80K, but not enough to cause the truck to run poorly. Otherwise, no issues due to E85.
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#3130721 - 09/20/13 01:53 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
Huie83 Offline


Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 216
Loc: Minnesota
I run E85 all the time. With my Holiday discount card I got when I purchased my vehicle, I can usually purchase E85 for $1.05 less per gallon than the price of 87 octane.

I've been running it for about 20K miles now in my Impala and have not noticed any differences compared to regular gas, besides the fact it has more POW-A! smile

One thing I can note is the OLM degrades the oil at a much faster rate than on gas.


Edited by Huie83 (09/20/13 01:56 PM)

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#3130812 - 09/20/13 03:06 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Huie83]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
I use Amsoil and change it once a year. Getting near that time for an oil change so a used oil analysis will be coming.
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#3151556 - 10/10/13 05:46 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
stchman Offline


Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 510
Loc: St. Louis, MO
My 2013 Silverado is a Flex-Fuel vehicle.

E-10 87 octane gasoline here in St. Louis is $3.09 a gallon at this exact point in time.

It is well known that E-85 yields ~30% MPG loss.

So if your vehicle get 20MPG on E-10@$3.09 a gallon then using E-85 will result in an average MPG of ~14MPG. With these numbers, E-85 would have to be less than $2.17 a gallon for it to save money.

E-85 around my parts is the same or $0.10 a gallon higher, so I would be losing money running E-85.

If I could get E-85 for say $1.85 a gallon, I would run it.
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#3161800 - 10/20/13 04:58 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: stchman]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 948
Loc: Kellogg, IA
E85 hasn't changed, but gas has come down to where the spread is not cost effective anymore for using E85. So, will run E10. It goes that way around here. Gas and E10 go up over the summer months, and E85 hits rock bottom. Gas and E10 drop enough in the fall that it makes sense to go back to them. I am not a purest to any particular fuel. I go for what offers the lowest cost per mile.
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#3161887 - 10/20/13 06:24 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: TiredTrucker]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
Just bought an E85 tester. E85 still has 85% in the mich area.
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#3162305 - 10/21/13 07:21 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
Huie83 Offline


Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 216
Loc: Minnesota
Just went back to E-10 after running E-85 for about 15K miles over the summer. Gas prices have come down enough up here the spread is not big enough.

Motor is deff not as peppy but it doesn't burn thru E-10 it nearly as fast which is nice.


Edited by Huie83 (10/21/13 07:21 AM)

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#3209158 - 12/07/13 01:22 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 948
Loc: Kellogg, IA
And that is the key. Just switch back and forth as the prices fluctuate. A lot of folks have been so conditioned to only look at mpg numbers. The real thing is to look at cost per mile numbers. I might only get 14 mpg on E85 but it may be cheaper per mile to use compared to regular at 17 mpg. Everyone has a calculator on their phone nowadays. Just open it up and do a little quick figuring before sticking the nozzle in the tank and see which fuel will be the lowest cost per mile to run based on that day's price at the pump.
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#3209165 - 12/07/13 01:37 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: TiredTrucker]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
I went back to running 87 octane from a year of running E85. The price of gas is dropping fast here in MI. I also sent in a sample of my 0W-20 full syn oil to see it's condition. The oil doesn't look that bad for a yr in the engine.
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#3225097 - 12/23/13 02:15 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
Merkava_4 Online   content


Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 9064
Loc: Clovis, CA
Is E-85 85% gasoline or 85% ethanol ?

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#3225357 - 12/23/13 10:28 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Merkava_4]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
It's 85% ethanol with a minimum of 70% added probably during the winter months. I haven't tested a winter sample as of yet.
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#3225527 - 12/23/13 01:40 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: kaboom10]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
Something I found in another forum.
Even those of you running standard pump gasoline are probably getting a mild alcohol blend. By law, most gas stations today are now allowed to sell blends of as much as 10% ethanol as "gasoline". The ethanol is being used to displace the MTBE (methyl tert-butyl ether), which has its own environmental and health concerns. It used to be that stations were required to post a sticker on the pump declaring the alcohol content, but that's no longer happening. Some regions were quicker to adopt the maximum allowable ethanol content in the pump gasoline. In my travels and discussions with shop owners and calibrators across the country, I've found that almost every station can be assumed to be selling some alcohol blend unless stated otherwise. In most cases, this means assuming a blend of 10% ethanol. Any addition of alcohol blends to the gasoline will shift the stoichiometric balance point. The more oxygen carried by the fuel, the richer the stoichiometric point will be. Where E85 has a stoichiometric ratio of 9.85:1, E10 (most pump gas blends) will balance at about 14.2:1. This means that tuning to an assumed pure gasoline composition with a stoichiometric point of 14.64:1 may include a 3% error before the engine is ever started. The wideband oxygen sensor will still typically display "14.64:1" at lambda=1.00, even though this is really an actual ratio of 14.2:1 with a 10% ethanol blend. Three percent may not sound lick much, and it really isn't, but the idea behind engine calibration is to get all variables as close to optimal as possible. Leaving a 3% error in the fuel's stoichiometric point just makes tuning the volumetric efficiency table, startup fuel, and transient fueling that much less accurate. It's a good idea to just adjust at the beginning before baking that error into every other calculation later on.
Well I'm finally getting a chance to drop back in here and I had a request to chime in on this thread a while ago. It seems that in the mean time, you guys have more or less cleared it up, but let me restate a little differently for those who may still have some confusion.

The Stoich point is primarily there for OPEN LOOP operation in order to define the balance that is lambda=1.000 for a given fuel. Changing the stoich point will skew the desired fuel mass prior to the EEC calculating the pulse width necessary to deliver this target fuel mass. If you have a known air mass (MAF reading), then the stoich balance determines the desired fuel mass that will go with it. Obviously, the chemistry of the fuel drives the balance point.

In closed loop, the EEC just looks to the narrowband HEGO to see which side of the balance it's on. It will push the fueling one direction or the other until it sees a switch in voltage that indicates crossing the real stoich point. Changes in fuel blends will just require more or less adjustment from the reference point (stoich point in the Open Loop cal) to toggle around the real chemical balance. If you define the calibration's stoich point equal to the real chemistry of the fuel, there's not much learning needed as long as your MAF and injector cals are good.
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#3225747 - 12/23/13 05:23 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: kaboom10]
Merkava_4 Online   content


Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 9064
Loc: Clovis, CA
Originally Posted By: kaboom10
It's 85% ethanol with a minimum of 70% added probably during the winter months. I haven't tested a winter sample as of yet.


Thank you sir, I appreciate the answer. I hope you and your family have a very nice Christmas.

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#3225818 - 12/23/13 06:26 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Merkava_4]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
And a Merry Christmas and Happy New Years to u and yours.
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#3227827 - 12/25/13 09:47 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 948
Loc: Kellogg, IA
Back on E85 as of the last fill. The price variable in my area is back to where it is the lowest cost per mile to use.
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#3234792 - 01/02/14 02:29 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Clevy]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
Bought a qt. of Acetone the other day since I had just filled up with 87 octane gasoline. Still making a new tune to try with that mixture. With the just above zero temps it will be awhile before I go out in the snow since we are using the wife's SUV to get around in now. I'm lucky I can avoid the salted roads as this is the last vehicle I'm buying. 12 yr old truck with 60,000 miles on it. Got my used oil analysis back but haven't posted it yet.
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#3234809 - 01/02/14 02:59 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: kaboom10]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7087
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: kaboom10
Bought a qt. of Acetone the other day since I had just filled up with 87 octane gasoline. Still making a new tune to try with that mixture. With the just above zero temps it will be awhile before I go out in the snow since we are using the wife's SUV to get around in now. I'm lucky I can avoid the salted roads as this is the last vehicle I'm buying. 12 yr old truck with 60,000 miles on it. Got my used oil analysis back but haven't posted it yet.



I don't know how much octane that treat rate will end up with.
At the track I poured a gallon of acetone into half a tank of premium, then I data logged with my tuner and added timing until I saw the knock sensor was pulling timing out.
When I sprayed I went from the value established and removed 2 points for every 50hp.
I sprayed a 175 wet shot with acetone enriched fuel. It was awesome.
I've read a lot about acetone/toluene/xylene and it's effect on gasoline. Apparently it lowers the surface tension of fuel so it atomizes faster and more completely which then contributes to a more complete burning of the fuel which can help fuel economy.
I've read that treat rates as low as 1 ounce per 5 gallons can lower surface tension however at that rate of dilution octane is unaffected.
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#3234831 - 01/02/14 03:22 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Clevy]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: kaboom10
Bought a qt. of Acetone the other day since I had just filled up with 87 octane gasoline. Still making a new tune to try with that mixture. With the just above zero temps it will be awhile before I go out in the snow since we are using the wife's SUV to get around in now. I'm lucky I can avoid the salted roads as this is the last vehicle I'm buying. 12 yr old truck with 60,000 miles on it. Got my used oil analysis back but haven't posted it yet.



I don't know how much octane that treat rate will end up with.
At the track I poured a gallon of acetone into half a tank of premium, then I data logged with my tuner and added timing until I saw the knock sensor was pulling timing out.
When I sprayed I went from the value established and removed 2 points for every 50hp.
I sprayed a 175 wet shot with acetone enriched fuel. It was awesome.
I've read a lot about acetone/toluene/xylene and it's effect on gasoline. Apparently it lowers the surface tension of fuel so it atomizes faster and more completely which then contributes to a more complete burning of the fuel which can help fuel economy.
I've read that treat rates as low as 1 ounce per 5 gallons can lower surface tension however at that rate of dilution octane is unaffected.

Someone said a 100:1 ratio is sufficient. If this tank runs like E85 and yields the same or better gas mileage I'll stick with the blend. Having a 25 gallon tank makes it perfect to throw a full quart in.
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#3237540 - 01/04/14 07:10 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 948
Loc: Kellogg, IA
If it is the best cost benefit to use, then go for it! I am about to pull the trigger on a Diablo Intune programmer and use the 93 octane performance tune along with E85 in my 2013 Siverado with 5.3L flex fuel and see how it plays out for me. I have read of others doing it that way, and Diablo emphasizes that using that 93 octane tune with E85 is a win-win. And with the Intune, I can tweak the settings considerably. I run E85 almost exclusively, os it is the best situation to test this out.
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#3248138 - 01/14/14 01:17 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Clevy]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
Put in that qt. of Acetone I bought. Noticeable difference mainly at 5" manifold vacuum or 56% load. Set up another tune just for this mixture of 100:1. Dialing in the MAF and topped off the tank with 3 gals. of 87. Got 12.0 mpg but hoping for more. Truck has sat for over 3 weeks while I was hibernating thru this bad cold snap.
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#3264816 - 01/30/14 11:56 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 948
Loc: Kellogg, IA
Ah, the privilege of living in the middle of the corn belt!

http://www.biofuelsdigest.com/bdigest/2013/08/15/is-2014-the-year-of-e85/
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#3305957 - 03/09/14 08:23 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: kaboom10]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
I now have another question. I've found lacquer thinner on sale and was wondering if I could use it instead of Acetone?
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#3305971 - 03/09/14 08:52 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: kaboom10]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7087
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: kaboom10
I now have another question. I've found lacquer thinner on sale and was wondering if I could use it instead of Acetone?



I never have. Only acetone,toluene or xylene.
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#3305997 - 03/09/14 09:38 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Clevy]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
The thinner is like the others? I would like to give it a try.
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#3306015 - 03/09/14 10:14 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: kaboom10]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7087
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: kaboom10
The thinner is like the others? I would like to give it a try.


Its your car. I guess it can't be any worse than the others,and the treat rate is pretty diluted.
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#3306165 - 03/09/14 01:15 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: TiredTrucker]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7087
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
If it is the best cost benefit to use, then go for it! I am about to pull the trigger on a Diablo Intune programmer and use the 93 octane performance tune along with E85 in my 2013 Siverado with 5.3L flex fuel and see how it plays out for me. I have read of others doing it that way, and Diablo emphasizes that using that 93 octane tune with E85 is a win-win. And with the Intune, I can tweak the settings considerably. I run E85 almost exclusively, os it is the best situation to test this out.



If your vehicle is a flex fuel it has a tune for e-85 already programmed into the ecu. A tuner isn't going to help in any way.
The ecu advances the timing significantly,hence the power boost,when running corn.
In order to truly improve on this stock tuning you'd need to get the vehicle dyno-tuned,otherwise your throwing money away
I have an intune and have it tuning my charger right now. There is no provision for ethanol.
Get it dynotuned.
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#3306260 - 03/09/14 03:16 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Clevy]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
Going to give it a try. Sounds like the thinner is full of acetone.
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#3306443 - 03/09/14 07:24 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Clevy]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 948
Loc: Kellogg, IA
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
If it is the best cost benefit to use, then go for it! I am about to pull the trigger on a Diablo Intune programmer and use the 93 octane performance tune along with E85 in my 2013 Siverado with 5.3L flex fuel and see how it plays out for me. I have read of others doing it that way, and Diablo emphasizes that using that 93 octane tune with E85 is a win-win. And with the Intune, I can tweak the settings considerably. I run E85 almost exclusively, os it is the best situation to test this out.



If your vehicle is a flex fuel it has a tune for e-85 already programmed into the ecu. A tuner isn't going to help in any way.
The ecu advances the timing significantly,hence the power boost,when running corn.
In order to truly improve on this stock tuning you'd need to get the vehicle dyno-tuned,otherwise your throwing money away
I have an intune and have it tuning my charger right now. There is no provision for ethanol.
Get it dynotuned.


The Diablo was for the ECM enhancements over stock with a 93 octane tune, shutting down AFM, and firming up the shifts. Just so happens that the E85 fits nicely into that parameter. Plenty of comments about this in the forums at DiabloSport. I just installed the Diablo 93 tune, and after running it for a couple of weeks and let it settle in, I am going to get Andy at Dynotune USA in S.D. to work up a custom E85 tune on top of it. That is his specialty, E85. I have to have it running a tune and then do a log file for Andy to tweak the Diablo tune best for my vehicle.

So, not really sure that I am throwing any money away. This is the same procedure that others use in getting Lew or one of the other CMR custom tuner people to work up a vehicle specific tune. It doesn't have to go on a dyno to get a good ECM tune. The log files tell all that is needed.
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#3306455 - 03/09/14 07:36 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: TiredTrucker]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7087
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
If it is the best cost benefit to use, then go for it! I am about to pull the trigger on a Diablo Intune programmer and use the 93 octane performance tune along with E85 in my 2013 Siverado with 5.3L flex fuel and see how it plays out for me. I have read of others doing it that way, and Diablo emphasizes that using that 93 octane tune with E85 is a win-win. And with the Intune, I can tweak the settings considerably. I run E85 almost exclusively, os it is the best situation to test this out.



If your vehicle is a flex fuel it has a tune for e-85 already programmed into the ecu. A tuner isn't going to help in any way.
The ecu advances the timing significantly,hence the power boost,when running corn.
In order to truly improve on this stock tuning you'd need to get the vehicle dyno-tuned,otherwise your throwing money away
I have an intune and have it tuning my charger right now. There is no provision for ethanol.
Get it dynotuned.


The Diablo was for the ECM enhancements over stock with a 93 octane tune, shutting down AFM, and firming up the shifts. Just so happens that the E85 fits nicely into that parameter. Plenty of comments about this in the forums at DiabloSport. I just installed the Diablo 93 tune, and after running it for a couple of weeks and let it settle in, I am going to get Andy at Dynotune USA in S.D. to work up a custom E85 tune on top of it. That is his specialty, E85. I have to have it running a tune and then do a log file for Andy to tweak the Diablo tune best for my vehicle.

So, not really sure that I am throwing any money away. This is the same procedure that others use in getting Lew or one of the other CMR custom tuner people to work up a vehicle specific tune. It doesn't have to go on a dyno to get a good ECM tune. The log files tell all that is needed.


Remote tuning is never as good as a dyno tune. I've done both.
And when your ecu senses e-85 it advances the timing way beyond what a canned 93 octane tune for gasoline.
On that tuner the way to get more performance would be to adjust the stock tune because the ecu would be running the e-85 tune.
You could advance the timing and add fuel to get a bit more power but even uploading the 93 octane tune just modifies the gasoline tune and not the e-85 tune and could actually cost you performance.
The diablo tune on that tuner is for 94 octane fuel. The one named diablo. Its a tune for gasoline,not e-85.
I doubt you could even modify the e-85 tune with the intune tuner. I have that tuner and no where is it an option
Because your vehicle is a flex fuel vehicle it uses the knock sensor to determine what fuel is being burned then adjust the fuel trims and timing. Uploading a gasoline tune for 93 octane is pointless and takes away from what the ecu is already doing.
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#3307427 - 03/10/14 04:47 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Clevy]
turtlevette Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 685
Loc: Massachusetts
When I put E85 in my 75 vette I just raise the hood and adjust the idle mixture then turn the distributor about 10 degrees clockwise and go. I always leave the dizzy just loose enough to turn by hand for last second performance adjustments. That's my good ole boy tune.





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#3307962 - 03/11/14 04:11 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: turtlevette]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26302
Loc: a prison island
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
When I put E85 in my 75 vette I just raise the hood and adjust the idle mixture


That's lean (extremely so) everywhere but at idle.


Originally Posted By: turtlevette
then turn the distributor about 10 degrees clockwise and go.


That's just plain retarded...

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#3308149 - 03/11/14 10:11 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: turtlevette]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7087
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
When I put E85 in my 75 vette I just raise the hood and adjust the idle mixture then turn the distributor about 10 degrees clockwise and go. I always leave the dizzy just loose enough to turn by hand for last second performance adjustments. That's my good ole boy tune.






Sure.
Why waste time reading plugs or actually using a timing light.
A lil twist here,a lil turn there.
Good to go
Til a piston melts.
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#3308150 - 03/11/14 10:12 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Shannow]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7087
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
When I put E85 in my 75 vette I just raise the hood and adjust the idle mixture


That's lean (extremely so) everywhere but at idle.


Originally Posted By: turtlevette
then turn the distributor about 10 degrees clockwise and go.


That's just plain retarded...



Ha.
Smart axx
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#3308345 - 03/11/14 02:18 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Shannow]
turtlevette Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 685
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
When I put E85 in my 75 vette I just raise the hood and adjust the idle mixture


That's lean (extremely so) everywhere but at idle.


Originally Posted By: turtlevette
then turn the distributor about 10 degrees clockwise and go.


That's just plain retarded...


I find you to be a very unprofessional engineer. Do you get like this when someone questions you at work? This gives me doubt that you are an engineer.

How do you know how my Quadrajet is jetted? Do you know what a QJ is? Even if it's way lean i'll never burn a piston in that engine on ethanol. Obviously it's a compromise. When E85 is available close to me, i'll rejet it and modify the idle circuit to be richer. Another option is just to run lean at part throttle then have overly rich secondary rods. The secondary metering rods on a QJ are on a simple hanger that can be changed out in about 1 minute.

Lots of gearheads tune by the ear. Advance the timing until you get just a touch of detonation at WOT then back down a few degrees. By adjusting timing In this way on E85, I've found it never detonates! The performance just falls off when overly advanced.




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#3308355 - 03/11/14 02:30 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: turtlevette]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
I think it's hilarious. My lead engineer would give me the same kind of answers. After richening up the idle circuit how will you get it back to the original calibration may I ask? Yes the secondaries are ez to change but the primaries are adjustable on some to. The QJ I played with had no choke plate and would start and run cold in the winter just fine.
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#3308387 - 03/11/14 03:01 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: turtlevette]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26302
Loc: a prison island
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
When I put E85 in my 75 vette I just raise the hood and adjust the idle mixture


That's lean (extremely so) everywhere but at idle.


Originally Posted By: turtlevette
then turn the distributor about 10 degrees clockwise and go.


That's just plain retarded...


I find you to be a very unprofessional engineer. Do you get like this when someone questions you at work? This gives me doubt that you are an engineer.



I'm talking about how you turn the distributor...anticlockwise to advance the timing, clockwise to retard the timing...

Your timing is retarded.

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#3308396 - 03/11/14 03:10 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 14525
Loc: Sunny Florida
A Distributor? I bet a lot of us here hardly even remember them!

I only have one engine with a distributor anymore out of a bunch! Sure made me chuckle. A whole bunch of trucks and vans here and not a one with a distributor.

But yep, I tuned many a 70's and 80's platform exactly that way. Run 'em hard and adjust to the point of detonation, then retard just a little till she shuts up.

One day maybe someone will show TV a recurve kit and a distributor machine and he won't have to be so "shade tree".
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#3308407 - 03/11/14 03:18 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: SteveSRT8]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
OMG a distributor machine. I had a friend that made custom distributors on his. Now my distributor is in a box that has a bunch of wires running to the engine COPs harness.
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#3308408 - 03/11/14 03:19 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26302
Loc: a prison island
Something's seriously wrong with his E85 tune if he needs ten degrees of retard, and seriously wrong with his road tune if he's running secondary rods for E85 with gas on the way home.

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#3308411 - 03/11/14 03:24 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Shannow]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
Must be a typo. I added a ton of timing when I went to E85. Hope he gets the QJ worked out. They are the best for fuel curve calibration. Edelbrock is next.
_________________________
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#3308418 - 03/11/14 03:31 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26302
Loc: a prison island
No, he was quite specific on his E85 tune...idle mixture and 10 degrees retard.

metering rods etc. came later when he worked out that wouldn't wash.

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#3308422 - 03/11/14 03:35 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Shannow]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
A metering rod for calibration is so cool. We used to make our own when we were making variable venturi carbs for Ford.
_________________________
Amsoil 0W20 Amsoil filter 02 5.4L F-150
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2013 Explorer Sport Amsoil 5W20/Wix wife's SUV
I was made in the USA

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#3308426 - 03/11/14 03:42 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Shannow]
turtlevette Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 685
Loc: Massachusetts
Ok I said clockwise but I should have said counterclockwise. I do know how to advance timing. You've not been very nice in previous threads so I assumed your were referring to me. grin

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#3308427 - 03/11/14 03:44 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: TiredTrucker]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7087
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
If it is the best cost benefit to use, then go for it! I am about to pull the trigger on a Diablo Intune programmer and use the 93 octane performance tune along with E85 in my 2013 Siverado with 5.3L flex fuel and see how it plays out for me. I have read of others doing it that way, and Diablo emphasizes that using that 93 octane tune with E85 is a win-win. And with the Intune, I can tweak the settings considerably. I run E85 almost exclusively, os it is the best situation to test this out.



If your vehicle is a flex fuel it has a tune for e-85 already programmed into the ecu. A tuner isn't going to help in any way.
The ecu advances the timing significantly,hence the power boost,when running corn.
In order to truly improve on this stock tuning you'd need to get the vehicle dyno-tuned,otherwise your throwing money away
I have an intune and have it tuning my charger right now. There is no provision for ethanol.
Get it dynotuned.


The Diablo was for the ECM enhancements over stock with a 93 octane tune, shutting down AFM, and firming up the shifts. Just so happens that the E85 fits nicely into that parameter. Plenty of comments about this in the forums at DiabloSport. I just installed the Diablo 93 tune, and after running it for a couple of weeks and let it settle in, I am going to get Andy at Dynotune USA in S.D. to work up a custom E85 tune on top of it. That is his specialty, E85. I have to have it running a tune and then do a log file for Andy to tweak the Diablo tune best for my vehicle.

So, not really sure that I am throwing any money away. This is the same procedure that others use in getting Lew or one of the other CMR custom tuner people to work up a vehicle specific tune. It doesn't have to go on a dyno to get a good ECM tune. The log files tell all that is needed.


I have that exact tuner. Touch screen.
Letting a tube settle in? Are you serious.
You obviously know very little about how your ecu is programmed and how tuning a fuel injected vehicle and I've got no interest in spelling it our.
Let us know the tune "settles in"
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2006 Charger RT
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#3308438 - 03/11/14 03:55 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: turtlevette]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7087
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
When I put E85 in my 75 vette I just raise the hood and adjust the idle mixture


That's lean (extremely so) everywhere but at idle.


Originally Posted By: turtlevette
then turn the distributor about 10 degrees clockwise and go.


That's just plain retarded...


I find you to be a very unprofessional engineer. Do you get like this when someone questions you at work? This gives me doubt that you are an engineer.

How do you know how my Quadrajet is jetted? Do you know what a QJ is? Even if it's way lean i'll never burn a piston in that engine on ethanol. Obviously it's a compromise. When E85 is available close to me, i'll rejet it and modify the idle circuit to be richer. Another option is just to run lean at part throttle then have overly rich secondary rods. The secondary metering rods on a QJ are on a simple hanger that can be changed out in about 1 minute.

Lots of gearheads tune by the ear. Advance the timing until you get just a touch of detonation at WOT then back down a few degrees. By adjusting timing In this way on E85, I've found it never detonates! The performance just falls off when overly advanced.





Let me get this straight. You advance the timing til it audibly breaks up then dial it back a bit.
How would the car even run. The timing would be advanced so far the fuel would be exploding while the piston was on the upstroke and make an audio noise.
When I was playing with higher octane in my 5.0 fox I advanced the timing then I'd have to drive to see at what rpm it started to break up.
A 75 corvette would have vacuum advance too,so are you unplugging the vacuum line prior to adjustment or leaving it on.

I have serious trouble believing any of this
It's just all wrong. The devil is in the details and we in this forum are all about details.
I'm pretty sure you're lying. Your finding whatever info on the net,remembering a few key words and coming back pretending to have a clue.
Shannon called it. You clearly explained your method and you described retarding the timing,not advancing it.
I'm positive now. You're a complete phoney
It's very sad having to resort to making up stuff on an anonymous internet discussion board.
Turt
Do you even really own a car?
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Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3308444 - 03/11/14 04:04 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7087
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Unless ole turty's corvette is powered with a ford engine he's got his timing routine backwards.
75 corvettes were slow stock. Maybe his bass akwards timing explano has helped things.......
Naaaaaaaaaaa
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#3308457 - 03/11/14 04:15 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2469
Loc: Upper Midwest
How awkward.
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#3308548 - 03/11/14 05:31 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Clevy]
turtlevette Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 685
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
When I put E85 in my 75 vette I just raise the hood and adjust the idle mixture


That's lean (extremely so) everywhere but at idle.


Originally Posted By: turtlevette
then turn the distributor about 10 degrees clockwise and go.


That's just plain retarded...


I find you to be a very unprofessional engineer. Do you get like this when someone questions you at work? This gives me doubt that you are an engineer.

How do you know how my Quadrajet is jetted? Do you know what a QJ is? Even if it's way lean i'll never burn a piston in that engine on ethanol. Obviously it's a compromise. When E85 is available close to me, i'll rejet it and modify the idle circuit to be richer. Another option is just to run lean at part throttle then have overly rich secondary rods. The secondary metering rods on a QJ are on a simple hanger that can be changed out in about 1 minute.

Lots of gearheads tune by the ear. Advance the timing until you get just a touch of detonation at WOT then back down a few degrees. By adjusting timing In this way on E85, I've found it never detonates! The performance just falls off when overly advanced.





Let me get this straight. You advance the timing til it audibly breaks up then dial it back a bit.
How would the car even run. The timing would be advanced so far the fuel would be exploding while the piston was on the upstroke and make an audio noise.
When I was playing with higher octane in my 5.0 fox I advanced the timing then I'd have to drive to see at what rpm it started to break up.
A 75 corvette would have vacuum advance too,so are you unplugging the vacuum line prior to adjustment or leaving it on.

I have serious trouble believing any of this
It's just all wrong. The devil is in the details and we in this forum are all about details.
I'm pretty sure you're lying. Your finding whatever info on the net,remembering a few key words and coming back pretending to have a clue.
Shannon called it. You clearly explained your method and you described retarding the timing,not advancing it.
I'm positive now. You're a complete phoney
It's very sad having to resort to making up stuff on an anonymous internet discussion board.
Turt
Do you even really own a car?


I've been working on the trans am lately. It's dizzy rotates counter clockwise. The chevy rotates clockwise. I got confused.

Congratulations you "got me" on something. Better write down the time and date.

You sound like someone who's really not very mechanically inclined.
Many gearheads:
1. advance timing.
2. take the car for a WOT blast.
3. if no detonation sound, advance some more
4. take the care for another WOT blast
5. if detonation retard a few degrees.

The fact that I have to spell this out for you means, you're the keyboard car guru. Let me know if you need any help with your chrysler

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#3308615 - 03/11/14 06:42 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: turtlevette]
turtlevette Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 685
Loc: Massachusetts
shannow, clevy, stevesrt8,

Its not about whether a chevy distributor rotates counter clockwise or clockwise.

The point is, in a pinch anything can run on E85. You guys can walk when the oil embargo hits like the other stubborn old geezers.

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#3308624 - 03/11/14 06:57 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: turtlevette]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7087
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
shannow, clevy, stevesrt8,

Its not about whether a chevy distributor rotates counter clockwise or clockwise.

The point is, in a pinch anything can run on E85. You guys can walk when the oil embargo hits like the other stubborn old geezers.



Lots of oil in my backyard. I'm not concerned.
And no. Forget e-85. We've proven you to be a phoney,a fraud. You've sat up on your high horse preaching at anyone who'd read it and your own words have exposed you as a liar.
You tried to take a shot at me over my data collection using mos2,implying I was in some way dishonest when in total truth you are the one trying to deceive.
Here's a tip. Don't go into a car forum when you've only read the cliff notes and post as some sort of authority. You'll be exposed,as you've been exposed here as a liar.
Enjoy your membership at bitog.
Do your homework,get educated,because here we WILL sweat the details,you know those things you missed as you glanced over the Wikipedia articles on these subjects you were trying to fake knowing about.
Poor ole turt. I've got 20 says he doesn't even have a car. The corvette belongs to the neighbour and poor ole turt overheard his dad and neighbour talking.
Which brings us to today. Exposed as a fraud.
Time for a new username,and to get educated.
Footinmouth has a nice ring to it.
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#3308638 - 03/11/14 07:14 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Clevy]
turtlevette Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 685
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Lots of oil in my backyard. I'm not concerned.


Right, so why does a Canadian stick his nose in American politics? A lot of you do that and I'm getting sick of it. If we want to plant the whole country to make ethanol, it's our business and none of yours.

P off. The aussies can take a hike too.

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#3308712 - 03/11/14 08:20 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: turtlevette]
Garak Online   content


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11155
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Right, so why does a Canadian stick his nose in American politics?

As Clevy said, we have a lot of oil in our backyard. So does the U.S. He's not poking his nose into U.S. politics, much less ethanol production. The point is that there's no reason to be concerned about an oil embargo, unless places like North Dakota or Alaska secede from the Union.
_________________________
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2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
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#3308830 - 03/11/14 10:13 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Garak]
turtlevette Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 685
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Right, so why does a Canadian stick his nose in American politics?

As Clevy said, we have a lot of oil in our backyard. So does the U.S. He's not poking his nose into U.S. politics, much less ethanol production. The point is that there's no reason to be concerned about an oil embargo, unless places like North Dakota or Alaska secede from the Union.


We need to be concerned with our own security. Sorry if I don't feel that someone sitting way way up in Canada has a stake in that.

People here couldn't drive their cars when there were hurricanes in the gulf. If they had another choice that wouldn't have happened.

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#3308939 - 03/12/14 12:35 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: turtlevette]
Garak Online   content


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11155
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
He was not asking that we have a stake in your energy security, nor does he think you shouldn't be concerned with your security. An oil embargo would hurt other nations far more than it would hurt the U.S. - and Canada, for that matter. This isn't the 1970s any longer. Aside from that, there's never a way to guarantee to avoid a shortage of a commodity, be it fuel, food, or ethanol.

Energy self-reliance can only work as good as the infrastructure allows. Pipelines and railways age and need replacement. Droughts occur.


Edited by Garak (03/12/14 12:38 AM)
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2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
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#3308954 - 03/12/14 01:08 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Garak]
turtlevette Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 685
Loc: Massachusetts
I'm glad clevy has appointed you as his proxy. You're much more worthy to debate me.

Please run the hurricane scenario of a few years back. If E85 was widely available would we have had the panic in the streets? Think about it and let me know.

I can think of all kinds of domestic and worldwide scenarios that would cause dire shortages of gasoline. Having a competing product will prevent or minimize the damage, even if it does come at some cost.

Don't think we don't know many of your jobs up there depend on oil. Strip out the bias. Be intellectually honest.

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#3308976 - 03/12/14 03:02 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: turtlevette]
Garak Online   content


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11155
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
The point being is that the USA definitely has the potential of being energy independent, and that's with or without ethanol. And that's not a knock on ethanol, either. As I've mentioned before, I have no bias against ethanol. I used to intentionally seek out E10 long before anyone in government ever considered requiring it. I'd still be supporting that particular gas station (and using some of the only ethanol enhanced premium on the market here) if they didn't gut their rewards program. And I'm well aware of the difference between using food grade grain (human food) versus feed grade grain (animal food) in ethanol production. So, I'm not one of those who's crying about using food for fuel. That's a weak argument since farmers do not (and realistically cannot) choose to grow a lower quality, lower priced version of the same product. Ethanol simply isn't the complete answer, either. Also note that this province produces a fair amount of oil. It's ethanol and grain production, particularly the latter, are very large, too. So, it's not about choosing one over the other.

And, as you may have noticed, I don't sit and grumble about what "evil" ethanol does to fuel systems or what its emissions impact is. The former is the fault of companies and their disposable equipment (a $100 lawnmower has a shorter shelf life than the fuel, for crying out loud) and the latter is up to automotive engineers to seek a solution.

As for ethanol alternatives in America's quest for energy independence, there's natural gas, for starters. The USA doesn't exactly have minute fossil resources, either. There is the potential there for the USA to be the world's largest oil producer.

The hurricane is one example. There are always counter-examples, too. Road and rail disruptions are issues, too. Everyone up here is panicked about rail safety and not enough grain transportation. We all know how panicked people get about pipelines. If you cannot reliably transport or transmit energy, there will be problems. Ethanol isn't immune to this. Neither is natural gas, petroleum, or electricity.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
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#3309092 - 03/12/14 08:24 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: turtlevette]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2469
Loc: Upper Midwest
Or a drought in the Great Plains.

Oh and they do have another choice BTW, it is oil from North Dakota - despite vigorous attempts to deny this option.

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
People here couldn't drive their cars when there were hurricanes in the gulf. If they had another choice that wouldn't have happened.
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#3309093 - 03/12/14 08:25 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: turtlevette]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2469
Loc: Upper Midwest
crazy
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I'm glad clevy has appointed you as his proxy. You're much more worthy to debate me.
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 188K
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#3309101 - 03/12/14 08:31 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Garak]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2469
Loc: Upper Midwest
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...ia-9185133.html

No hurricanes in North Dakota, Wyoming or Montana either. The article notes that we are also burning off "outlandish" quantities of natural gas due to an inability to capture it.

Also note that a lot of the oil is being moved by train, tell me again how this is safer than a pipeline?

Originally Posted By: Garak
The point being is that the USA definitely has the potential of being energy independent, and that's with or without ethanol.

<snip>

As for ethanol alternatives in America's quest for energy independence, there's natural gas, for starters. The USA doesn't exactly have minute fossil resources, either. There is the potential there for the USA to be the world's largest oil producer.
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#3309129 - 03/12/14 08:58 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
hatt Online   content


Registered: 01/03/12
Posts: 925
Loc: Florida
Natural gas doesn't fit the narrative so it's better to burn it off rather than use it. Renewable bro.

Something I hadn't thought of. When talking of trains you're talking about GE. Trains may not be safer than pipelines but it's better for GE's bottom line.
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#3309237 - 03/12/14 10:41 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: hatt]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
How about sugar cane for ethanol production? Brazil uses it as a fuel. Ask them what happens.
_________________________
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All fluids are Amsoil products.

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#3309319 - 03/12/14 11:45 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: turtlevette]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 14525
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
shannow, clevy, stevesrt8,

Its not about whether a chevy distributor rotates counter clockwise or clockwise.

The point is, in a pinch anything can run on E85. You guys can walk when the oil embargo hits like the other stubborn old geezers.


The point? I think that was lost long ago, man. In this country we won't have to worry, as we have lotso oil and other fuel ideas, and folks are waking up to the facts about national security and energy production, etc.

And you may want to re-read my post. It was actually somewhat supportive of your "shade tree" tune up...
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#3309324 - 03/12/14 11:46 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: kaboom10]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 14525
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: kaboom10
OMG a distributor machine. I had a friend that made custom distributors on his. Now my distributor is in a box that has a bunch of wires running to the engine COPs harness.


Yep, if I didn't keep an old street toy truck there would not be a single distributor in a fairly large stable of trucks, cars, and even my boat. Not many have wires to speak of either...
_________________________
"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
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#3309451 - 03/12/14 01:49 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: hatt]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 2469
Loc: Upper Midwest
Somehow I don't think the necessity of train use was GE's idea.

Originally Posted By: hatt
Something I hadn't thought of. When talking of trains you're talking about GE. Trains may not be safer than pipelines but it's better for GE's bottom line.
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#3309477 - 03/12/14 02:18 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Garak]
turtlevette Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 685
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Garak
So, I'm not one of those who's crying about using food for fuel. That's a weak argument since farmers do not (and realistically cannot) choose to grow a lower quality, lower priced version of the same product.

And, as you may have noticed, I don't sit and grumble about what "evil" ethanol does to fuel systems or what its emissions impact is. The former is the fault of companies and their disposable equipment (a $100 lawnmower has a shorter shelf life than the fuel, for crying out loud) and the latter is up to automotive engineers to seek a solution.



Yep. Those are very ridiculous arguments. I think ethanol proponents or even a reasonable neutral person stay away from these discussions because of the all out attack dog that come out thinking they'll lose their job as a roughneck or their oil stock will go down. Their anti ethanol arguments are not the most intelligent.
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#3309507 - 03/12/14 03:03 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: kschachn]
hatt Online   content


Registered: 01/03/12
Posts: 925
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Somehow I don't think the necessity of train use was GE's idea.

Originally Posted By: hatt
Something I hadn't thought of. When talking of trains you're talking about GE. Trains may not be safer than pipelines but it's better for GE's bottom line.

So the people with 70% of the loco market aren't concerned about train usage? I kinda doubt that. Whether or not they're actively trying to kill pipeline projects I have no idea. I do know GE is in bed with the current admin, who isn't big on pipelines.
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#3310115 - 03/13/14 01:49 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: kschachn]
Garak Online   content


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11155
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Also note that a lot of the oil is being moved by train, tell me again how this is safer than a pipeline?

My city has a refinery. I'm aware of the use of trains in that. wink I never said it was safer. As it stands now, we move what we have with what we got, I guess.

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I think ethanol proponents or even a reasonable neutral person stay away from these discussions because of the all out attack dog that come out thinking they'll lose their job as a roughneck or their oil stock will go down. Their anti ethanol arguments are not the most intelligent.

There certainly are valid arguments against ethanol. But there are valid arguments against gasoline, cars, eating meat, whatever you can imagine. In the end, flexibility is the answer. Ethanol isn't useless from an energy perspective. Neither is gasoline, natural gas, propane, the wind, the sun, coal, and nuclear power. But we're certainly not in the position to place all our eggs in one basket.

Even perfectly clean electricity with plenty of capacity that might make electric cars attractive has its issues. The distribution network goes down, and everything goes down with it. One big drought clobbers ethanol production for a season. Transportation problems cause issues with petroleum distribution.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#3311100 - 03/13/14 09:09 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: hatt]
turtlevette Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 685
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: hatt
Natural gas doesn't fit the narrative so it's better to burn it off rather than use it.


It's gotta cost a fortune to convert a car to CNG. I'd rather not drive around with high pressure gas bottles in my car, but if it came down to it, I would.

Not to be so obstinate as some.

Ethanol is a no cost option for me that works right now. Just turn a few screws.

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#3311124 - 03/13/14 09:21 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: turtlevette]
Garak Online   content


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11155
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Natural gas is a fine option, but it has its limitations like everything else. I'm not worried about the tanks in the least. I'd be more worried about reduced range. A lot of city buses here run on it, and given that they go to the shop every night (where they can refill them), it's not an issue. Myself, I wouldn't want to go on a long road trip in a CNG car.
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2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#3311132 - 03/13/14 09:29 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Garak]
turtlevette Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 685
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Garak
I'm not worried about the tanks in the least.


I am. A little.



http://depts.washington.edu/vehfire/hybridalternative/hybridalternative12b.html

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#3311352 - 03/14/14 04:40 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: Garak]
kaboom10 Offline


Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 731
Loc: royal oak, mich
When we tried running CNG about the only problem we ran into was valve seat regression. A hardened insert can fix that.
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#3311394 - 03/14/14 06:29 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: turtlevette]
hatt Online   content


Registered: 01/03/12
Posts: 925
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Garak
I'm not worried about the tanks in the least.


I am. A little.



http://depts.washington.edu/vehfire/hybridalternative/hybridalternative12b.html

Did you read the link you posted? 20 year old technology that wasn't properly maintained.
Quote:
Conclusions:

There is no evidence that this cylinder type or model is unsafe if properly installed and maintained.
The cylinder failed through weakening caused by external corrosion.
The corrosion was probably caused by exposure to hot exhaust gases from a leaking exhaust system.
The corrosion would have been readily apparent on visual inspection.
The cylinder would have been condemned if inspected by a qualified person.


Aren't CNG tanks these days fiberglass? And why would I retrofit a car? Put CNG as an option in new cars. And then make them duel fuel. With a house connection and compressor. This doesn't have to be hard.


Here we go. It's missing the built in house connection but it's start.



Edited by hatt (03/14/14 06:31 AM)
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#3311541 - 03/14/14 09:23 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 14525
Loc: Sunny Florida
I hope the folks here like TV who have spoken highly of the EPA and their wonderful agenda have read the Inspector General's report.
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#3311543 - 03/14/14 09:25 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 14525
Loc: Sunny Florida
As an aside, I drove a Ford van for a decade with a propane tank under the body way back in the 70's. We hit many things, even had a serious accident, and never had an issue.
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Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix

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#3311971 - 03/14/14 04:06 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: SteveSRT8]
turtlevette Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 685
Loc: Massachusetts
I'm ok with compressed gases. But, they're not for my vette or trans am.

Ethanol is. Any gasoline engine can run E85. Engines not designed for it will still run fine at low and partial throttle. And its really hard for me to believe designers didn't build 30% margin in fuel injector duty. The trick is to run a higher fuel pressure.

So if there was ever a problem getting gas this would be a good alternative to walking.

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#3312054 - 03/14/14 05:36 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: SteveSRT8]
hatt Online   content


Registered: 01/03/12
Posts: 925
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
As an aside, I drove a Ford van for a decade with a propane tank under the body way back in the 70's. We hit many things, even had a serious accident, and never had an issue.
We had a Maverick and a Ford van that ran off LP gas back in the day. Never a problem. LPG and CNG are probably safer than gasoline. A ruptured gasoline system pools while LPG and CNG quickly dissipated into the atmosphere.
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2013 F150 5.0, PU 10w-30, FL500s
2010 Camry 2.5, PP 5w-30, Wix 57047

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#3312334 - 03/14/14 10:58 PM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
Intelman34 Offline


Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 310
Loc: Waukesha, Wisconsin
e85 is 2.79 here. Premium is 3.99.

With tuning, my truck makes about the same power with either fuel. I lose about 1.5/mpg with e85, but with the cost difference, it's worth it.
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#3312513 - 03/15/14 08:01 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: turtlevette]
Garak Online   content


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 11155
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I am. A little.

Poor inspection is an issue, but I see much more frequent problems with gasoline cars burning down due to fueling issues. Propane has had so few issues as to be laughable. Gasoline tanks need some regular inspections, if you ask me.

And of course, LPG or CNG isn't for your Vette or Trans Am. To get a decent sized LPG tank would require a lot of butchery, and the CNG setup would be worse, with less range.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Hastings LF113
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

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#3454213 - 08/13/14 05:38 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: beanoil]
247 Offline


Registered: 08/11/14
Posts: 7
Loc: Nebraska USA
Actually Beanoil...with all due respect see this website

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfuel/FFV2013.shtml

According to these tests your Dodge Caravan probably gets 30% less mileage on E-85 vs. E-0 (Reg. UL)

Considering the "Energy-Mileage-Penalty"...E-85 would have to be priced at about $2.89 to equal the $3.98 E-0 Reg. UL grade you mention (on a BTU basis). With a 15 gallon fill you are spending about an extra $7.50/fill to get the same number of BTUs. It's all about the number and cost of the BTUs you put in your tank since mileage and cost/mile is proportional to energy content.

See what these people have done. These FuelCOG people have an app which takes the guess work out of this while standing at the pump. It works and it's accurate. I've used it. If interested go to www.fuelcog.com

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#3460052 - 08/20/14 07:13 AM Re: Doe anyone run E-85 on a Regular basis? [Re: ZZman]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 948
Loc: Kellogg, IA
And there are variations on the blends that can be more cost effective. I have blender pumps near me, that I can select E10, E15, E 20, E30, and E85. I have found that using E30, which is around 20-25 cents less than regular gas, I get almost an identical mpg. Now true, when I use E85, the mpg drop is definitely there. But with E10 - E30, it is negligible. And different engines respond differently. GM flex fuel vehicles showed the lowest mpg difference between E30 and gasoline in some test I read a while back. Others, showed higher variations. The best "bang for the buck" for my vehicle seems to be E30. One study I read a while back showed that Ford and Toyota vehicles got better than straight gas mpg using E30 while the GM vehicles got as good or better mpg than gas using E20. I only know that using E30 in mine, it is more cost effective on a cost per mile basis than using gasoline at the current price spread. Same for E85 right now. E10 and gas are a wash when it comes to cost per mile. If one only looks at mpg, they can be disappointed to say the least. It is the cost per mile that one has to factor to see if it is worth it. And it depends on the region of the country.
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