1998 Diesel Beetle opinion needed

[Bluestream]

I am thinking of buying a 1998 Diesel beetle. Car is a two owner car with standard tranny, and has 150K miles on it. Owner claims to have spent 3K on timing belt, water pump, and brakes one year ago. Needs a front windsheild to pass saftey check. Cost is $2,750 - $3,000

Anyone aware of any defects, or reason I should stay away from this car?

 

[Scienceman]

Sounds like a good price.
It won't bother you to be seen in it?

 

[Bluestream]

Originally Posted By: DT466E_bus
It won't bother you to be seen in it?


Not sure yet? Buying it more for something different, fun and something good on fuel. Never had a diesel before, and it's a bucket list thing I guess. Trying to find out if there are defects I should know about. I know parts are expensive, but I do my own work...

 

[simple_gifts]

Quote:

reason I should stay away from this car?


7+ years old, VW, nuff said.

Four coworker's experience with aging VWs would make me steer clear.

However, probably a fun car if you can withstand the expected $$ and downtime.

 

[Chris Meutsch]

You'd probably have fewer problems with a 1978 Old Beetle at this point......

 

[scurvy]

Make sure the timing belt SYSTEM was done correctly - ask who did it, and see if they have VCDS (if they're an indy mechanic) or the VW VAS 1552 scan tool to correctly set the dynamic injection timing. The timing belt SYSTEM also includes the tensioner, idlers, 160k km rated belt, new TTY bolts for the engine mount, waterpump & fresh G12 coolant (bright pink).

TDIs need 5w40 or 0w40 synthetic diesel-rated oil every 16k km with an OEM or equivalent filter (Mann, Mahle, Knecht, Hengst or Bosch). At that age, you should go ahead and change out all the vacuum lines & inter-injector fuel lines to save yourself headaches. Also be ready to have the injection pump rebuilt, they often leak after spending so many years soaking in high-aromatic 500 ppm S diesel then being switched to low-aromatic 15 ppm ULSD. The intake manifold may also be well on its way to being plugged up with soot - a common issue from pre-ULSD days.

The biggest problem IMO with the 1998 - 1999.5 TDIs is that they're a mixed bag of parts, half from the mk4 bins and half leftover from the mk3. Those years have mk3 shifter linkages with are a complete PITA to adjust, but can be swapped with one from a mk4. There's tons of other early mk4 wonkiness as well but nothing you can't fix yourself with an afternoon on TDIClub, the Bentley repair manual & VCDS. I HIGHLY recommend you invest in the latter if you want to save yourself hours of frustration - or even better, make a friend who has them.

 

[ls1mike]

These are my favorite threads because I had an 02 TDI and guys will defend the TDI until death, but I have seen some of the same guys bash having to do an intake manifold gasket, here my take is. Not worth the headache. I have have had mid 80's turbo Dodges that required less maintenance then my TDI. Here are a couple of shots of carbon build up even with proper oil and proper fuel with 4000 to 5000 mile oil changes with 505.01 spec oil.

I had to clean out the intake twice in the 80,000 miles I owned it. The dealer charges about 800 bucks to clean it. It took me 6 to 8 hours. It had so many other problems I don't even feel like writing them down here. I sold that pile, I bought my Regal spent 4 hours doing the intake gasket and here I am 75,000 miles later and not one problem.

 

[Bluestream]

Thanks for all the input. I was told all work for the timing belt/water pump was done at the VW dealer. Also, that an aftermarket belt kit was used that is suposed to last twice as long as the VW belt. Not sure if he got this right, but he said it was good for 200K KM

 

[Bob Woods]

After my experience with a Mitsubushi self destructing engine I will never again buy a car with a timing belt. Even cheap ole saturn was smart enough to use a chain.

 

[Chris Meutsch]

Originally Posted By: scurvy
Make sure the timing belt SYSTEM was done correctly - ask who did it, and see if they have VCDS (if they're an indy mechanic) or the VW VAS 1552 scan tool to correctly set the dynamic injection timing. The timing belt SYSTEM also includes the tensioner, idlers, 160k km rated belt, new TTY bolts for the engine mount, waterpump & fresh G12 coolant (bright pink).

TDIs need 5w40 or 0w40 synthetic diesel-rated oil every 16k km with an OEM or equivalent filter (Mann, Mahle, Knecht, Hengst or Bosch). At that age, you should go ahead and change out all the vacuum lines & inter-injector fuel lines to save yourself headaches. Also be ready to have the injection pump rebuilt, they often leak after spending so many years soaking in high-aromatic 500 ppm S diesel then being switched to low-aromatic 15 ppm ULSD. The intake manifold may also be well on its way to being plugged up with soot - a common issue from pre-ULSD days.

The biggest problem IMO with the 1998 - 1999.5 TDIs is that they're a mixed bag of parts, half from the mk4 bins and half leftover from the mk3. Those years have mk3 shifter linkages with are a complete PITA to adjust, but can be swapped with one from a mk4. There's tons of other early mk4 wonkiness as well but nothing you can't fix yourself with an afternoon on TDIClub, the Bentley repair manual & VCDS. I HIGHLY recommend you invest in the latter if you want to save yourself hours of frustration - or even better, make a friend who has them.


You clearly know 1000% more than I do about modern VW's and I totally respect that knowledge. Your entire post here would simply scare me to death if I was interested in a diesel VW (or a gas version) for any reason.

 

[rcy]

I think 1998 was the first year for the New Beetle as well, so there may have been hiccups that got ironed out in later years. My wife had a 2000 with the 2.0 litre gas engine, and luckily I like fixing things...'nuff said?

 

[Audi Junkie]

They have a lot of hardware and electrical issues. Get it if you want it, but don't expect to never need to do repairs.

 

[scurvy]

Originally Posted By: Bob Woods
After my experience with a Mitsubushi self destructing engine I will never again buy a car with a timing belt. Even cheap ole saturn was smart enough to use a chain.

Similarly, I'll never buy one with a timing chain. Belts are quieter, more dimensionally stable and designed to be replaced fairly easily. YMMV.

Originally Posted By: Chris Meutsch
You clearly know 1000% more than I do about modern VW's and I totally respect that knowledge. Your entire post here would simply scare me to death if I was interested in a diesel VW (or a gas version) for any reason.

TDIs are excellent cars that work wonderfully when maintained correctly, but quickly turn into nightmarish junk when neglected. Both of mine are great, but they get maintained well.

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Thanks for all the input. I was told all work for the timing belt/water pump was done at the VW dealer. Also, that an aftermarket belt kit was used that is suposed to last twice as long as the VW belt. Not sure if he got this right, but he said it was good for 200K KM

In Canada, dealerships are much better about TDIs as y'all have many more of them - but in the states, the dealership is the LAST place you want working on a VW.

It's clear the PO doesn't know what he's talking about, and I would pass on this car. The VW belt system is rated for 160k km and no aftermarket belts claim anything higher than that from what I've seen, unless they're lying.

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
These are my favorite threads because I had an 02 TDI and guys will defend the TDI until death, but I have seen some of the same guys bash having to do an intake manifold gasket, here my take is. Not worth the headache. I have have had mid 80's turbo Dodges that required less maintenance then my TDI. Here are a couple of shots of carbon build up even with proper oil and proper fuel with 4000 to 5000 mile oil changes with 505.01 spec oil.


Like I said, I enjoy my TDIs and many others do as well but they are very intolerant of lack of maintenance and unfortunately the stealership is usually behind incomplete or shoddy work.

FWIW, the stock OCI & oil specification was 10k miles and 505.00. Plenty of folks had intake clogging issues with them because they drove trying to squeeze out every miserly MPG they could. Bad for the intake & turbo vanes.

Some folks are not a good fit for some cars, and I'm glad you're in a vehicle that suits you much better now.

 

[Jeff3126]

Junk. Stay away. My friend has a 2000 TDI and while it runs and drives it is of poor quality. This is a throw-away diesel.

Now I understand people here have VWs and enjoy them, but my buddy hates this vehicle.

 

[meep]

sad. I rode in an early jetta TDI and was amazed in how that car felt, performed....

I'm totally with that bucket list - diesel thing.

The price isn't bad.

I'd be on the fence.

If it were a jetta, I'd probably risk it.

M

 

[Thermo1223]

I miss my Jetta everyday, great car for the 50k I had it for.

From 85k-135k I only replaced the following.

Coolant temp sensor(free)
VNT Actuator($125)
Timing belt kit($350 labor, $300 parts)
1 rear caliper($60, parking brake mechanism failed)
Cleaned the intake($20 for a gasket & bolts, and about 3-4 hours of my time)
Battery($75)

Everything else was standard maintenance as planned all while returning a solid 45MPG not matter how I drove or where.

 

[scurvy]

Originally Posted By: Chris Meutsch
You clearly know 1000% more than I do about modern VW's and I totally respect that knowledge. Your entire post here would simply scare me to death if I was interested in a diesel VW (or a gas version) for any reason.


Don't ask a trustyworthy independent mechanic about any vehicle you plan on buying then... you'll be AMAZED at the stuff those guys see on a regular basis. They've got enough horror stories about every make & model vehicle on the road to keep you on a horse, bicycle or your own two feet forever. Unless you talk to a vet, bicycle wrench or a podiatrist, then you'll stay home...

Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
I miss my Jetta everyday, great car for the 50k I had it for.
...
Everything else was standard maintenance as planned all while returning a solid 45MPG not matter how I drove or where.

Ditto, both our TDIs have been excellent - we've got a 2000 NB and a 2006 Golf. The only things besides routine, scheduled maintenance that have needed repair are a reverse light switch & glowplug harness on the NB; a wheel bearing & strut bearing on the Golf. I just pulled a 1500 lb trailer back from Baltimore and got 31 mpg doing so in the Golf; the NB got 49 mpg as the chase car on that trip. They've both been astoundingly reliable vehicles and I enjoy them both.

I'll say it again, and this is especially pertinent to VWs in the USA: the dealer service departments should be avoided at all costs. Your level of fahrvergnügen is directly proportional to the quality of maintenance the car receives, and the stealership is often the source of very low quality work.

But more pertinent to the OP: I would not buy the car based on the maintenance lies you've been told. Also good to know - the NB is an excellent car for 2 adults, but the rear seat (especially headroom) will be miserable for anyone over 1.5 meters tall. Cargo space with the rear seat folded is excellent.

 

[Bluestream]

Thanks to all who replied on this and especially to Scurvy for the detailed info. Even though the replies were mixed, I am leaning towards buying this ca. I am meeting seller today for a test drive and inspection. I don't think the owner was misleading me on the timing belt, I think he must have meant an upgraded OEM belt kit, and not an aftermarket. I can't see a VW dealer installing an aftermarket part anyway.

 

[bruckus]

I have owned 2 of the beetle TDI's. The first was a 1998. The car was the most troublesome car I have ever owned. They have severe carbon problems in the intake manifold as well as the throttle body which prevented them from running. Overall the 1998 was a total nightmare. I thought that I got a bad one because it was the first year for the new beetle and I was dumb enough to trade it in on a 2001 beetle TDI. I drove the car for 1 year and started having the same issues with the new one including electrical problems, Air conditioning problems, Carbon problems as well too many others to list. Traded it on a 2001 Civic and 255,000 miles later all is good.

 

[FXjohn]

I looked into TDI's. Read the TDI club forum and you'll discover the engine and car are only good if you want to make it a full time hobby. you can get cheaper transportation in a Japanese, US or Korean 4 cylinder or V6.