I add motor oil & 2 stroke oil to my gas

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Originally Posted By: gsxrman2007
So using two stroke oil would be better than non detergent? and it will cause fewer problems in the long run. So you also said it can restore the loss of lubrication properties of alcohol? But why does it create better mileage? What properties would oil in fuel have on a 4 stroke motor running a high ethanol gas mix that is all i have in my area. thanks for the ideas


demar summed it up well. I still buy top tier gas, but only because the price is regulated here so it costs the same no matter where you go. I haven't been able to verify mileage claims, but demar again gives reasons that I agree with too as to why it may improve. It certainly doesn't hurt mileage (at least when generally accepted ratios are used), and any gains there are just gravy to me. I use it for its ability to lubricate the upper cylinder, and mild solvency that can aid in keeping injector and upper cylinder build up at bay, and potenially help remove existing deposits over time.

As the cost of it is extremely low when you take into account the tiny amounts used, it is hard to beat for bang for the buck, and is my 1st choice fuel additive (and the one I use the most).

-Spyder
 
Hi guys,

UCL's have been around forever but I've never seen any studies to prove that they work in actually reducing upper cylinder wear and if they due at what lean dosage level. If they work at 100/1 ratios at what point do they become ineffective,i.e., is 500/1 or even 1000/1 too lean to not worth bothering with?

With the advent of direct injection (DI) engines high iron wear levels is common in many applications, undoubtedly due to cylinder washing. This has lead me to start thinking about the use of an UCL in DI engines to possibly mitigate the high iron in UOA.

Sorry for my scientific bent, but has anyone seen any independant studies on the subject?
 
No scientific studies that I'm aware of, but in my unscientific testing I can tell you there is a felt benefit, LOL. Many people are saying that.

On a more serious note, I found recently that TCW3 has reduced oil consumption for me. I'm continuing to test TCW3 in my own primative way. I honestly believe it makes for a tighter ring seal which is why people claim their engines seem to idle smoother. I'm also thinking that if oil use is from the rings, or partially from the rings the tighter seal could be why in my case oil use is slightly less. Sorry though no scientific evidence.

As you mentioned it might have some value in DI engines, as more people start using it in DI engines we might get more feedback.
 
demarpaint, what dosage ratio do you generally use?

I see you prefer TCW3 because it's ashless. I thought most two cycle oil was ashless even in air cooled engine?

Ever run straight vegetable oil (a natural ester with polar attributes? There's nothing cheaper I'm aware of.
 
I recently started using TCW3 in just one of my 3 vehicles, the other two I use MMO and will continue to do so. I started using TCW3 because it is "thicker" than MMO and I read a lot of positive feedback about it. I also read that it was preferred over Two Cycle in water cooled gas engines, so I didn't even consider Two Cycle Oil. Other that what I've read I think only TCW3 oil is ashless, but I could be wrong.

I'm about 6 tanks into steady use of TCW3 at a 500:1 ratio and noticed a slight reduction in oil use from about 1 qt of oil/3000 miles to almost 1/2 qt for the same distance. I've dosed as much as 400:1 at times with no felt difference. I've consumed almost like clock work 1 ounce of oil/1000 miles, and that is reduced now. It is still to early to be 100% certain, and I was hoping others who have engines that use some oil would chime in if they had similar results. I plan on continuing for another 5000 miles or so to see for sure. Idle quality between TCW3 and MMO is about the same, without the use of either one I can feel a difference. Scientific, hardly, but the best the backyard enthusiast can do.

The only products I've ever used as a top oil are MMO, Lucas, and TCW3. I have not tried straight vegetable oil. Yet!
 
500:1 to 400:1 seems to be the usual dosage.

I'm only concerned with the possibility of reducing upper cylinder wear. Trying to help out a fellow member with a DI engine who does do regular UOA. I'm going to recommend a 500:1 dose with a TCW3 and see if it makes any difference. Problem is it could take years to establish reliable data of with and without the UCL. Plus he is trying engine different oils which may affect the reliability of the results.
 
Yes that's the problem, it would take years to establish, and then the naysayers would call it a fluke anyway. The DI engines might make calculating results easier though because they are so hard on oil. Great test! Good luck! Report back.

I have two vehicles that sit for sometimes weeks at a time. I figure it will reduce flash rusting in the combustion chamber, that alone in and of itself is worth it to me.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
500:1 to 400:1 seems to be the usual dosage.

I'm only concerned with the possibility of reducing upper cylinder wear. Trying to help out a fellow member with a DI engine who does do regular UOA. I'm going to recommend a 500:1 dose with a TCW3 and see if it makes any difference. Problem is it could take years to establish reliable data of with and without the UCL. Plus he is trying engine different oils which may affect the reliability of the results.


This is why I can't prove anything scientifically from my use of TC-W3. My own oil consumption peaked at 1 quart every 1,200 miles over the summer. It seems to have dropped a bit over the last couple weeks, but its too early to say one way or the other.

Because the consumption is due to stuck (and possibly worn &/or damaged) piston rings, my use of TC-W3 is just one ingredient in a multi-tiered approach, as the goal for me isn't to prove if a single additive can reduce consumption (or by how much), but simply to reduce consumption.

Current measures in use are alternating fuel additives between TC-W3 and MMO. I mainly use TC-W3, but run a Regane dosing every 3-5k (currently), and my last cycle I followed up with 3 or 4 MMO treated tanks. This is my last MMO tank, then I'll return to TC-W3 until the next Regane dosing.

More recently I added Lubro-Moly mos2 to the oil to up its moly count. No scientific proof, but as moly is a known anti-wear additive and oils such as Redline use (comparatively) large doses of it, the theory is this additive will, over time "plate" to the pores in pistons, cylinder walls, etc, and provide to it a lubricating film. Therefore it may help as well - I don't know if it will, but as with MMO and TC-W3, its inexpensive, doesn't seem to be snake oil, and is worth a shot.

Another variable is that there is sludge present. Its being cleaned out slowly, but that may affect oil consumption as well, and any reduction in the first may lead to a reduction in the second.

Last variable is one I can't control: ambient temps. As they cool, and because there's a correlation between engine temperature and consumption (prolonged higher rpm highway runs burn the most oil, whereas pure city usage burns almost none), I expect it to fall over the winter anyway.

As all of these measures take time to achieve any results, and its a routine additive schedule I plan to keep anyway, if I see reduction I won't know it until next summer - and I won't know which additive (or combination) achieved it, but for the reasons given, that's a moot point for me.

If no reduction by then, I plan on going beyond measures that are my now part of my normal additive package (and each of those will be maintained for reasons independent of oil consumption), but the hope is I won't have to. But if consumption is not to a level I consider satisfactory (I could live with 1 quart every 3k and if it got there I'd leave well enough alone and just use these regular additives), then I will step it up to the ones aimed solely at reducing consumption, and for which no other benefit is expected from.

-Spyder
 
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Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Spider7, where to you get MMO from in Canada?


When I first joined the board, I'd posted about the sludge I'd found in my (then) recently bought used car. Several members suggested MMO, and after replying that I couldn't get it here, StevieC offered (that same day I joined) to send me a bottle. He asked for nothing for his time, even though it had to have meant some effort to work out the shipping, and then package and mail it to me.

(off topic) He is a rare breed of person. I still keep in touch with him by e-mail regularly, as we talk cars, maintenance, etc. He's passed 400,000 km on his Santa Fe and shooting for the half million mark. I don't doubt he'll get it there.

-Spyder
 
Yes Steve is a very decent young man who has helped out a number of members with his proximity to the US border. But he has to learn what the limits are when you get into a difference of opinion with someone and just let it go.

I know at one time MMO was carried by Cdn Tire and I read on what I thought was a recent MMO thread that someone said it was available at a Cdn hardware chain but I can't find it.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Yes Steve is a very decent young man who has helped out a number of members with his proximity to the US border. But he has to learn what the limits are when you get into a difference of opinion with someone and just let it go.

I know at one time MMO was carried by Cdn Tire and I read on what I thought was a recent MMO thread that someone said it was available at a Cdn hardware chain but I can't find it.


True Value was the name mentioned. We evidently have one here but I haven't checked it, as if the product is novel, its not likely to be on the shelves here.

I'm pretty much limited to WM, CT, and Napa. Fortunately one of the WM's has a top flight oil section with really good deals on most of the time (the others, not so much). Same for one of the Napa stores here. They've surprised me twice now when they had both the LM mos2 in stock and the POR-15 starter kit I wanted on another occasion. They are the only Napa I go to now. Another one I went to for POR-15 I got a completely dumbfounded, dazed and confused reaction, and a suggestion that this other store might have it. The other store is the only one I go to now (also like their staff better).

-Spyder
 
Actually you only use very small amounts, especially for tc-w3. 100 ml is all you need to treat 50L of gas. Some find slightly less works better. As you're never adding it to an empty tank, its enough to go with the 500:1 ratio every fill up and it should average out close enough. Outboard oil is the ideal kind. Some say synthetic is better again, but I stick with plain Castrol outboard as its priced right for me.

-Spyder
 
I got zero deposits on my plugs after 30k and 60k on 2C oil....

may24010.jpg


grinding005.jpg


RI-RS4 says he gets less valve deposits and the deposits are softer and easier to remove w/2C in his DI engine.

My guys all say they get less consumption and better mpg and engine feel on it. I agree and use it in my new cars. PZ Semi Syn Marine.
 
Is it it just me, or do a couple of those plugs look pretty black? Might be just the photo. Brown or grey is OK, black not good.
 
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Actually you only use very small amounts, especially for tc-w3.

Outboard oil is the ideal kind. Some say synthetic is better again, but I stick with plain Castrol outboard as its priced right for me.


Spyder, I was just going to ask this i.e. given that one adds only about 100ml per tank of gas does it really matter what brand or type of TCW-3 one chooses? For example is there any difference between outboard oil and say...snowmobile oil? Both are listed as TCW3 2 cycle oil and shown here in the CTire on line catalogue:

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/...l.jsp?locale=en AND
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/...L.jsp?locale=en
 
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Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Actually you only use very small amounts, especially for tc-w3.

Outboard oil is the ideal kind. Some say synthetic is better again, but I stick with plain Castrol outboard as its priced right for me.


Spyder, I was just going to ask this i.e. given that one adds only about 100ml per tank of gas does it really matter what brand or type of TCW-3 one chooses? For example is there any difference between outboard oil and say...snowmobile oil? Both are listed as TCW3 2 cycle oil and shown here in the CTire on line catalogue:

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/...l.jsp?locale=en AND
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/...L.jsp?locale=en





Any two cycle oil is supposed to be ashless to meet that spec; I went with Castrol outboard only because the WM I bought it at didn't have much to chose from, and the back of the bottle specifically stated no ash. You should be fine with any product that is certified tc-w3; I just like the extra reassurance in seeing 'no ash' or 'ashless' written right on the bottle.

As to concerns over it affecting octane rating; given that its used in a 500:1 ratio (equating to 0.2% of the content of the fuel), it should have no effect on octane or cause pre-detonation. Also keep in mind that it still burns, its designed to burn, and though it doesn't burn like gasoline to produce the same energy by volume, when you couple the fact that it ignites to produce energy during detonation, with its low concentration, one should safely conclude that its impact on octane will be less than the variation in gasoline blending error by the time it is delivered at the pump (or put differently, it will have no effect on octane as long as the recommended 500:1 ratio is adhered to).

-Spyder
 
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those plugs are a little hot, ie lean fuel. the rounded center electrode is hirting your performance. after lots of experimenting with spark plugs i found that the center electrode is very important for performance. to perform well the center electrode must have sharp edges, this is more important than the side electrode. no charge, iam just a good guy
 
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