secondary air pump code - P0411 - Workaround?

[El_Schaf]

Ok all,

Here is my dilemma and my proposed solution-

My car has a problem with the secondary air injection system. Could be the pump, the valve, the relay. Not likely hoses since the car is new (age wise), and they seem fine when I checked them. Fixing this problem, if i replaced everything myself, would be around $300.

Now, I am wondering if I can get a used non-california/[censored]/smog PCM and install it in my car cheaper and fix the problem by way of the computer not recognizing this air pump or making it run.

Why it matters - Its getting cold. My remote start does not work if a CEL is on. I have been clearing the code at night so I can start it in the morning, but I would prefer some sort of fix. But If i can get a new PCM for $150-200 and it will fix it, I would rather not fix and still have a secondary air injection pump that could go bad again to deal with.

Does anyone even know what I'm talking about?

 

[bdcardinal]

Do you have access to a Tech II to program the PCM? Generally they are not plug and play.

 

[El_Schaf]

unfortunately nobody currently has the ability to reprogram 07-08 PCMs due to GM locking them. I tried to get ZZ performance to help, (hopefully get a performance tune and remvoe the computer's nuisance DTCs) but they are not able to help as of right now.

 

[eljefino]

Your plan holds water. Most likely the "49 state" PCM just has empty pins for the relays and stuff for the air pump.

I bet for $40 and a six pack you could get a crooked dealer employee to reflash the PCM in your car.

 

[shpankey]

I feel your pain. I went through this ordeal on my wifes 01 GMC Jimmy. I had to replace the two one-way check valves on each side and the air pump. If you do this, as a trick, drill a small hole in the plastic part of the air pump on the bottom, this is where the water collects from the exhaust when the one way check valves go bad (they go bad every few years) and it's cold enough for that water to freeze. This is how the pump goes bad.

Also, don't forget the 30Amp fuse. Oddly enough, it's not a fuse in the inside fuse box or the under the hood fuse box, but all on it's own, in her case, under the battery. It took me awhile to figure out when I replaced the check-valves and pump that there was a fuse in that location that popped too. Such a poor design. I believe GM has/had a TSB out for a fix, where they done some rerouting and other stuff to prevent it from ever happening, but I found drilling the small hole in the plastic bottom of the pump does the trick just as easily. Well that and replacing the two check-valves every two years to be safe. On her GMC, they are really cheap and quite easy to replace. Took me less than 15 minutes.

 

[Ryan]

Speak of the dog gone devil. I just fixed my 02 Olds Intrigue with the same problem. Ended up being one of the way overpriced one way check valves on the passenger side. I don't know if your car is the same setup, but I used a page from an Oldsmobile Forum that helped me out 100%! Try this link and see if you have the same type of check valves. If you do, do the vacuum test to them. Most likely that is what the problem is, assuming your AIR pump is working. http://aurorah.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=nextgeneration&action=display&thread=5507

 

[TLMjared]

I would be careful when dealing with emissions components, if your state has emissions testing and see any of the components missing of not functioning/hooked up they can fail your vehicle.
I have seen it before, even had one poor kid buy a car with a swapped motor in it, he had to buy all the emissions components for the vehicle before the health department (those controlling the IM program) would let his vehicle pass. and on a 1985 suburban, that is a lot of hoses valves pumps etc...

 

[Merkava_4]

There's a little short vacuum hose going from the vacuum control valve to the vacuum control solenoid (3).

Make sure that little hose is not disconnected, or it will throw a code for the secondary air injection system.

The vacuum control solenoid is fastened to the engine cover bracket on top, at the back of the engine.

The diagram is looking from the back of the engine.

 

[sciphi]

Is that a Series III 3800 thing or a Grand Prix thing? Never heard of an air injection pump on a 3800 before. Pretty sure my Series II 3800 doesn't have one.

At least on earlier GM cars, the PCMs were physically interchangeable. A reflash was needed to make the car run correctly.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: sciphi
Is that a Series III 3800 thing or a Grand Prix thing?


No - it's very much a Series II thing. The Secondary Air Injection Pump
is right there up front in plain site on its own little mounting platform.

 

[sciphi]

Is that a 2000+ factory service manual you're getting the images from? My 1999 H-body (Bonneville, LeSabre, etc.) FSM doesn't list a P0411. Or a secondary air injection pump.

I'd try to see if it's an electrical problem with a multimeter first. Test the valve, the wiring, and the relay.

 

[El_Schaf]

The engine in the Grand Prix is a series III. I think this is just a California Emissions equipment issue. The diagrams above are exactly what I see when I take the cover off the engine. The solenoid is in that location exactly. I think it is the culprit, but I'm not sure how to remove it. I think I cant see all of the bolts mounting it to the engine, unless it is just the two there on top that are visible. Thank you so much for those pictures though, those are awesome.

 

[[email protected]]

2 Things:

1.) A secondary air pump and related peripherals are not specific to vehicles in California. Changing PCMs might not make a difference either on your Grand Prix. Envoys & Trailblazers have the same pump and check valve system after 2004 - it was installed on every vehicle despite what state they were being sold/used in.

2.) In Michigan, we dont have emissions testing or need 'inspections'. We used to, but it ceased in the 80's. THANK GOD! We just send all of our dirty air to Canada now

 

[El_Schaf]

Is there a way to find out if this is standard on 2008 GPs?

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: El_Schaf
Is there a way to find out if this is standard on 2008 GPs?


You could look at your underhood emissions label, it has diagrams and such.

Or rockauto.com will list the part, and whether it's for every car or cali emissions only.

The RPO codes on your spare tire cover might also list what emissions package you have.

 

[shpankey]

I would check the fuse first btw. Seems simple enough that it could be skipped over. In my case, I replaced the check valves and air pump and the code was still being thrown. Then I found the isolated 30amp fuse all on it's own hidden under the battery. Sure enough, it was popped. So I actually replaced it last, so I'm not sure if my air pump was even bad in the first place. Probably was, but I wish I had done the fuse first to be sure and not spend all that money and time on the issue.

 

[JTK]

I know the Atlas/Vortec 4.2L in our 2005 Trailblazer had an electric blower for secondary air injection. 99% of the time, issues with that particular system were associated with the solenoid actuated check valve that was mounted on the exhaust manifold. The check valve wouldn't seat when the system wasn't needed and condensation from the exhaust stream will fill the system and ruin the electric blower. The blower was mounted low under the vehicle, about under the driver's seat, so it was perfect for collecting water.

The 2.2L Ecotec in my 2007 Cobalt also had electronic secondary air injection and a similar check valve setup. The blower was between the radiator and the engine. These GM systems sound like a hairdryer when they fire up and they seem to fire at very odd times and for short periods.

Here's a pic of the check valve on my Cobalt. It's the cylindrical solenoid looking device to the left of the first ignition coil in this pic:

Joel

 

[El_Schaf]

Yeah, that solenoid looks exactly like mine. I cant figure out how to remove mine for inspection as of right now though. I will look for that fuse, I have no idea where it will be.