Is Royal Purple a Group III oil?

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: lipadj46
Hydrocracking involves chemical reactions.


In a sense yes, but the term "reaction" is usually used for molecules reacting with each other, as opposed to solvent extraction and catalytic cracking.

Oil companies generally know the base oils used by their competitors, but do not comment publicly.

Tom NJ

 

[sangyup81]

Originally Posted By: JGR
So is RP a Grp IV or not? I have RP 5W-30 in both of my cars right now and they seem to like it very much, but if it is a Grp III, I could go to China-Mart and save some K-kash.
Anyone know the truth?

You don't get your RP from China-Mart?

 

[deven]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
If a company says their oil has a mostly Gp IV base, you can bet the other companies have verified that via lab tests. The oil companies have the labs and money to do that sort of thing. If it really was Gp III, it would have come up in M1s or Amsoil's ad campaigns by now.

Personally, I don't have a problem with Gp III and don't really care whether it's called "synthetic" or not. The performance difference between good Gp III and Gp IV base oils is not all that big when looked at in a practical way. You have to look at a the whole picture not just one corner of it. In comparing Gp III to Gp IV, a synergistic additive package counts for more. Given equally effective additive packages (which will be slightly different because of the base oils), then you might consider the Gp III vs Gp IV thing. Still, I think the margins are not all that far apart.

People are too fixated on one component in an oil and this thread seems to be evidence of that.


Yes, I don't have a problem with base oil either. What I do havea problem with is paying $8/qt for a Group III oil. I am running Royal Purple 5w40 in my dads car and will continue to do so.
I also have called Royal Purple and talked to Mr. Barker at length about base oils and all other claims Royal Purple makes. He is a stand up guy and has told me that all their street oils are Group IV. I started this thread not to attack Royal Purple but I was sort of confused about the terminology used in the CHP Insider article and wanted clarification.
I agree that a lot of people here are fixated with all the components that make that particular oil, be it base oil, VI, CCV, PP and what not. This is an oil forum where every little detail is scoured, manipulated and dissected but rightfully so otherwise this forum would become mundane and dull. I for one don't look at the PDS to select a motor oil but it sure is fun to look at the data and people scrutinizing it.

 

[HangerHarley]

Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
If a company says their oil has a mostly Gp IV base, you can bet the other companies have verified that via lab tests. The oil companies have the labs and money to do that sort of thing. If it really was Gp III, it would have come up in M1s or Amsoil's ad campaigns by now.

Personally, I don't have a problem with Gp III and don't really care whether it's called "synthetic" or not. The performance difference between good Gp III and Gp IV base oils is not all that big when looked at in a practical way. You have to look at a the whole picture not just one corner of it. In comparing Gp III to Gp IV, a synergistic additive package counts for more. Given equally effective additive packages (which will be slightly different because of the base oils), then you might consider the Gp III vs Gp IV thing. Still, I think the margins are not all that far apart.

People are too fixated on one component in an oil and this thread seems to be evidence of that.


Yes, I don't have a problem with base oil either. What I do havea problem with is paying $8/qt for a Group III oil. I am running Royal Purple 5w40 in my dads car and will continue to do so.
I also have called Royal Purple and talked to Mr. Barker at length about base oils and all other claims Royal Purple makes. He is a stand up guy and has told me that all their street oils are Group IV. I started this thread not to attack Royal Purple but I was sort of confused about the terminology used in the CHP Insider article and wanted clarification.
I agree that a lot of people here are fixated with all the components that make that particular oil, be it base oil, VI, CCV, PP and what not. This is an oil forum where every little detail is scoured, manipulated and dissected but rightfully so otherwise this forum would become mundane and dull. I for one don't look at the PDS to select a motor oil but it sure is fun to look at the data and people scrutinizing it.


Is CHP California Highway Patrol?

FWIW, RP sounds very very good. Whether you run 5W-40 (all around good grade) or 20W-50, its synthetic Group IV-ness seems really well suited to engines! (Synthetic 20W number = still good start-up lubing. Group IV goodness.)

Only thing that seems to best it is Group V RedLine.

Also, heard an article or two about RP cleaning away so much stuff in an engine that the engine Grenaded. However, people conclude that this was the engine, not the Oil.

I like RP and will likely pursue finding it or Redline, as Castrol Syntec is inferior to these two oils and is only worth it when on sale.

 

[demarpaint]

Quote:
"These days, additives are even more important than whether base oils are mineral or synthetic."


I especially liked that statement. Overall he did a nice job with his write-up.

 

[deven]

CHP=Chevrolet High Performance

 

[shpankey]

Originally Posted By: Mokanic
RP tech has always been up-front about the base oil they use. I have no reason to not believe them. It's PAO with some group 2 for additive carrier.

This, though I will add, their is a bit of Group V as well. It's the "Synerlec" in it.

 

[HangerHarley]

Originally Posted By: shpankey
Originally Posted By: Mokanic
RP tech has always been up-front about the base oil they use. I have no reason to not believe them. It's PAO with some group 2 for additive carrier.

This, though I will add, their is a bit of Group V as well. It's the "Synerlec" in it.


How does RedLine stack up? Group V, yes?

 

[sangyup81]

Yeah, Group V is what makes Red Line what it is

 

[Velo_Fello]

Would there be anything actually wrong in running a mixture of RP and Redline?

 

[CompSyn]

Originally Posted By: DragRace
When anyone who takes the time to email RP tech,they will be up front and tell you it's a group IV-V oil.


Done! I'm impressed Royal Purple e-mailed me back on Saturday.

Question: Does any Royal Purple automotive engine oils contain Group III base stocks?

Answer:"We make over 60 specific engine oils and use synthetic base stocks in all of them although our exact formulations are considered proprietary." Cited E-mail: David Canitz @ Royal Purple

Just as I thought, a good safe reply neither confirming nor denying the use of Group III base stocks in Royal Purple automotive oils.

Again, when Royal Purple’s Vice President of Marketing Mark McFann stated the following in the February, 2009 issue of Chevy High Performance magazine it’s well apparent that Royal Purple is comfortable with talking about the origins of Group III refined crude oil and leaving out the part of the conversation that Group IV PAOs are not “refined” but are extracted from gases. Yes the gases are natural and come about through pumping crude oil from within the earth, but again, Group III synthetic is "refined" from crude while Group IV synthetic is extracted from natural gas.

Quote:
"A popular misconception is that synthetic oil is magically created in a beaker," says Mark. "The truth is, all oil comes in a natural state, and all oil starts as crude. The difference between a synthetic and a mineral-based oil is just a matter of how that crude is processed. Synthetic oil is highly refined crude with molecules that have been realigned by man. This makes them significantly different from what they were in the ground. As a result, synthetics have a uniform molecular size and lower traction properties, reducing friction. Crude has lots of impurities, but they are removed during refining when formulating a synthetic oil. However, that's not to say synthetic oils are always better than mineral-based oils. These days, additives are even more important than whether base oils are mineral or synthetic." Cited: Royal Purple Vice President of Marketing Mark McFann, February, 2009 issue of Chevy High Performance Magazine


Arguments over base stock formulations are irrelevant as its the right combination of quality base oil(s) and additive(s) that makes for a well balanced finished product. It's when individuals say as though its fact that one certain product is Group IV and another is Group V which somehow makes it a leader of the pack. In fact, a vast majority of the time, that information is "proprietary" to the company in question but comes across in all shades of gray in Internet forums and forms of wishful thinking.

 

[Tone]

Synthetics can be what ever the industry want them to be here (Hydro cracked GPIII) in the states. RP street oils are not shear stable, so I find it hard to believe it is PAO. From all the discussion on this board. I can only trust that the European's are true group IV/V and maybe Amsoil here in the states. Exactly as stated above. "In Europe, Group III highly refined crude is marketed as conventional motor oil while in North America it is considered "Full Synthetic".

 

[MaDMaXX]

Conventional? or semi synth?

I'm not sure you're fully correct with european mineral oil being the same as US synth.

What i do know is that M1 Synt S in the UK costs ~£28 (~$45) for 5 quarts/litres.
Whereas i can buy the same amount of M1 at Walmart for $23.50


Interesting to say the least. So is what i found below.



Fully Synthetic oil consists of chemical compounds which are not originally present in crude oil but artificially made from other compounds.
Synthetic oil generally provides superior mechanical and chemical properties than those found in traditional mineral oils.



Ester synthetic technology combats wear and friction on all critical load surfaces at high temperatures and during cold starts. Normally used in high performance and special application racing engines.



Semi-synthetic / part-synthetic motor oil - also known as 'synthetic blends' - are blends of standard multigrade mineral oil and highly refined ("hydro-cracked") mineral base-stocks. Part synthetic motor oil is designed to have some of the benefits of synthetic oil without matching the cost of pure synthetic oil.



Mineral oil is a by-product in the distillation of petroleum from crude oil. Mineral oil is less expensive than synthetic oils due to the easier production and blending process.

 

[vxcalais]

The problem with the base oil cult is the advertising and the fact some countries like here in Australia, Group 1 oils are still used by the major companies. They advertise the synthetic base stocks to be a superior oil saying better protection and longer drains, this is the attraction for people. The advertising clearly gets everybody. Royal Purples advertising is very effective, making you think a mineral oil is just not good enough. They all do it, making me wonder why they even bother with the money making mineral oils if its so poor compared to their synthetic variants.