Fastest dragster in the world

[Drew99GT]

I always thought top fuel dragsters were the fastest; I had no idea that there used to be rocket car drag racing! The NHRA made it illegal in 1982.

This car has the fastest standing quarter mile of any vehicle in history at 3.5 @ 386 mph

 

[Shannow]

I remember rocket dragsters touring Oz in the day.

Never saw them

 

[expat]

Interesting tidbit from Wkiki:
Drag racing rules require a record run be backed up within one percent at the same meet in order to count as a record; hydrogen peroxide rocket dragsters such as Sammy Miller and Kitty O'Neil's 3.22 ET and 412-mile-per-hour (663 km/h) quarter mile world records set in 1977 are not official because they failed to back up those runs within one percent, per NHRA and FIA rules.[11]

 

[02SE]

The rocket powered cars were indeed quick and fast, but they didn't drive the wheels like a TF/D does. The modern TF/D could go significantly quicker and faster too, if it weren't for the restrictions placed on them in an effort to slow them down.

 

[ItsuMitsubishi]

Man, they're just wasting their time having this thing pointed parallel to the earth. They should really develop the chassis and internal systems, install some thrusters and gyros, stand it on end and TAKE OFF INTO SPACE!

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: 02SE
The rocket powered cars were indeed quick and fast, but they didn't drive the wheels like a TF/D does. The modern TF/D could go significantly quicker and faster too, if it weren't for the restrictions placed on them in an effort to slow them down.

You aren't serious, are you? Rocket cars have traped 400 mph in the 1/4 mile. There's no way in heck a top fuel dragster will EVER do that.

They aren't restricted THAT much.

 

[Dualie]

its a semi sort of cheating. same with the jet dragsters.


that's just a low flying missile. I don't even believe there throttled one their lit they are lit till they are out of fuel.

 

[OVERKILL]

I've always wondered what a Pratt & Whitney J-58 would be like in a Jet Car. Considering how fast they would push the SR-71.....

 

[Mr Nice]

There is a drag car with a GE J-79 engine from an F-4 Phantom

 

[Dualie]

there not really jet car's more like jet sleds.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: 02SE
The rocket powered cars were indeed quick and fast, but they didn't drive the wheels like a TF/D does. The modern TF/D could go significantly quicker and faster too, if it weren't for the restrictions placed on them in an effort to slow them down.

You aren't serious, are you? Rocket cars have traped 400 mph in the 1/4 mile. There's no way in heck a top fuel dragster will EVER do that.

They aren't restricted THAT much.


I was saying the modern TF/D could go significantly quicker and faster than what they are currently restricted too.

And they actually are restricted pretty severely, compared to what they could be capable of. I've talked with several of my colleagues in the NHRA TF/D ranks, and there are some pretty solid ideas of what could be possible, if given the freedom to experiment without running into pesky regulations.

Could they ever run quicker and faster than the rocket cars did? We'll likely never know because the regulations keep getting stricter to try and keep the performance in check.

Of course then the problem would be where do you run an unrestricted TF/D?

Older, shorter tracks on the tour are why the NHRA has been continually trying to slow the Fuel cars down. With Scott Kalitta's untimely death, RIP Scott, they immediately implemented the 1000 ft rule for the Fuel classes.

There are talks in the NHRA hierarchy of implementing even further restrictions to try to slow them down more.

 

[INMY01TA]

I saw a jet powered dragster go down the track at MIR here in Md. It only trapped like 250ish tho. Female driver if I remember correctly.

 

[expat]

Seems to me (I admit I do not follow the Sport/spectacle) that TF has some strange rules that try restrict the cars in some respects to 1960's technology, forcing competitors to use similar engines (based on obsolete OHV V8's) and engine management.
An 'open' class might be more interesting.

 

[The_Eric]

I don't think that an "open" class will ever come to pass. Top fuel is being restricted due to safety concerns. An "open" class wouldn't make any sense as the cars are ridiculously fast as it is.

I'm only aware of a few of the limitations, such as size, type and percentage of overdrive of the supercharger, engine displacement @ 500ci (been that way for quite a while), max rpm, fuel mix ratio @ 90% nitro/10% methanol...

Can anyone fill me in on the rest?

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: The_Eric


I'm only aware of a few of the limitations, such as size, type and percentage of overdrive of the supercharger, engine displacement @ 500ci (been that way for quite a while), max rpm, fuel mix ratio @ 90% nitro/10% methanol...

Can anyone fill me in on the rest?


That's pretty much it. I guess if you built one with a bigger motor, 100% nitro, more boost etc., you could get obscene power, but then traction becomes the limiting factor, and it already is with the setups they run.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: The_Eric
I don't think that an "open" class will ever come to pass. Top fuel is being restricted due to safety concerns. An "open" class wouldn't make any sense as the cars are ridiculously fast as it is.

I'm only aware of a few of the limitations, such as size, type and percentage of overdrive of the supercharger, engine displacement @ 500ci (been that way for quite a while), max rpm, fuel mix ratio @ 90% nitro/10% methanol...

Can anyone fill me in on the rest?


Mandatory 3.20 gear ratio. They could go quicker and faster with a taller (numerically lower) ratio.

Maximum allowable throttle area for the injector inlet. Also a maximum allowable height and forward reach of the injector inlet.

Restrictions on what is allowed in the cylinder heads.

Maximum allowable size of the wing elements.

Maximum allowable angle of attack for the wing elements.

Mandatory bracing in the chassis that limits flex and weight transfer.

Mandatory shield around the back of the driver rollcage. Implemented after Darrell Russell's untimely demise, (RIP Darrell) but also an effective windbrake which slows the cars a bit.

Mandatory tires which effectively don't grip as well as some of the tire compounds and constructions of the recent past.

Goodyear has had some experimental tires which were taller and wider than what is currently allowed. They would've allowed significantly more power to be applied during a run, but they were not approved.

An on-board computer system that is for data-logging only.

If a powertrain management computer were allowed, you would see real-time control of all the various aspects of the cars. From how much fuel is bypassed at any given time, how much timing is pulled and added back in and when, how quickly to progressively engage the clutch, traction control. The list goes on. All of which would ultimately make for quicker and faster passes.

As it is, we look at the data after a run, and set-up the car with whatever we think will work best based on how the car ran, and given the prevailing atmospheric and track conditions. That means deciding what compression distance to choose for the pistons, what rod length to use, which combustion chamber size heads to use, how thick of headgaskets to use, the sizes of the numerous fuel nozzles to use, how fast to spin the blower, etc.

The clutch guys will decide what discs and thicknesses of discs to use, how much weight to put on the levers, how many steps to use to progressively engage the clutch, etc.

Then the mechanical timers will be adjusted to perform various tasks at set times during the run with what is thought will work best given the set-up of the car and the prevailing atmospheric and track conditions.

Anyway, that's a basic rundown of some of the restrictions that are dealt with.

There is talk within the NHRA of further measures to slow them down even more in the near future.

 

[expat]

Why not just restrict cubic inches (cc's) an allow some 'innovation'
As I understand it, the problem is not so much speed, than slowing down. Detached retinas and the like, due to sudden deceleration!!

 

[morris]

slow down top fuel? sealed engine

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
I don't think that an "open" class will ever come to pass. Top fuel is being restricted due to safety concerns. An "open" class wouldn't make any sense as the cars are ridiculously fast as it is.

I'm only aware of a few of the limitations, such as size, type and percentage of overdrive of the supercharger, engine displacement @ 500ci (been that way for quite a while), max rpm, fuel mix ratio @ 90% nitro/10% methanol...

Can anyone fill me in on the rest?


Mandatory 3.20 gear ratio. They could go quicker and faster with a taller (numerically lower) ratio.

Maximum allowable throttle area for the injector inlet. Also a maximum allowable height and forward reach of the injector inlet.

Restrictions on what is allowed in the cylinder heads.

Maximum allowable size of the wing elements.

Maximum allowable angle of attack for the wing elements.

Mandatory bracing in the chassis that limits flex and weight transfer.

Mandatory shield around the back of the driver rollcage. Implemented after Darrell Russell's untimely demise, (RIP Darrell) but also an effective windbrake which slows the cars a bit.

Mandatory tires which effectively don't grip as well as some of the tire compounds and constructions of the recent past.

Goodyear has had some experimental tires which were taller and wider than what is currently allowed. They would've allowed significantly more power to be applied during a run, but they were not approved.

An on-board computer system that is for data-logging only.

If a powertrain management computer were allowed, you would see real-time control of all the various aspects of the cars. From how much fuel is bypassed at any given time, how much timing is pulled and added back in and when, how quickly to progressively engage the clutch, traction control. The list goes on. All of which would ultimately make for quicker and faster passes.

As it is, we look at the data after a run, and set-up the car with whatever we think will work best based on how the car ran, and given the prevailing atmospheric and track conditions. That means deciding what compression distance to choose for the pistons, what rod length to use, which combustion chamber size heads to use, how thick of headgaskets to use, the sizes of the numerous fuel nozzles to use, how fast to spin the blower, etc.

The clutch guys will decide what discs and thicknesses of discs to use, how much weight to put on the levers, how many steps to use to progressively engage the clutch, etc.

Then the mechanical timers will be adjusted to perform various tasks at set times during the run with what is thought will work best given the set-up of the car and the prevailing atmospheric and track conditions.

Anyway, that's a basic rundown of some of the restrictions that are dealt with.

There is talk within the NHRA of further measures to slow them down even more in the near future.


WOW! Thank you very much for taking the time to type this out. It is much appreciated. I've had quite the liking for fuel cars for a while now (ever since experiencing them first hand at a 4th of July exhibition) and love learning new things about them.