Since ethanol cleans out deposits in the fuel system, would regular use of E-10 make after market cleaning additives obsolete?
E-10 and Gasoline Additives
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My view is that if it's containing petroleum, it'll leave traces behind that need to be cleaned. So I'll keep buying PEA-containing fuel system cleaners.
Likely the cleaners do not need to be used as often with E10 gas.
Likely the cleaners do not need to be used as often with E10 gas.
Which deposits does it clear out??? BMW and others have published tech articles that stated that it increased deposits, so please be specific with your question. All the major manufacturers have upgraded fuel tanks and lines, along with other parts to decrease the corrosive properties of ethanol - remember it is an oxidizer that must be protected against.
It is a good deal if you are selling corn!!
It is a good deal if you are selling corn!!
Originally Posted By: outoforder
Since ethanol cleans out deposits in the fuel system, would regular use of E-10 make after market cleaning additives obsolete?
Yes, absolutely..
Since ethanol cleans out deposits in the fuel system, would regular use of E-10 make after market cleaning additives obsolete?
Yes, absolutely..
Read this:
http://www.fuel-testers.com/is_gas_additive_safe_with_e10_list.html
" Since ethanol is a very strong solvent and cleanser, use of additional gas additives with E10 is often unnecessary."
http://www.fuel-testers.com/is_gas_additive_safe_with_e10_list.html
" Since ethanol is a very strong solvent and cleanser, use of additional gas additives with E10 is often unnecessary."
Very interesting information. I have a small jug of lucas oil fuel conditioner in the closet. There wasn't any information the chart about this additive. Wondering if I should use it up.
Then, they go on to state 18 kinds of damage that ethanol causes, a list of those (FAA, etc) that ban the use of ethanol, pages of negative comments concerning ethanol....
Many of us have driven cars for 300,000 miles or more without any fuel additives (except for what is in the fuel) and no noticeable need for any....
So, why use it??
Many of us have driven cars for 300,000 miles or more without any fuel additives (except for what is in the fuel) and no noticeable need for any....
So, why use it??
I think the most economical thing you can do is try to run a Top-Tier gasoline(Shell,Exxon,Chevron,etc) constantly in your car or truck for keeping the fuel injection and system clean. The only top tier station around for me is an Exxon and I usually run their 87 because my truck runs good on it. About once every 2-3 months I travel about 30 miles to a town to do some shopping and go to a truck stop. They sell Shell gas and I tank up on V-Power 93 octane and run that down to about a quarter tank left before I fill up again on Exxon 87.
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I don't think ethanol is an oxidizer. It itself is oxidized to acetaldehyde and the right on to acetic acid (vinegar) which is quite corrosive to metal. This is the same chemistry as wine going bad over time and turning to vinegar.
As an historical aside, the Romans found that if sour (acidified wine that had turned) was placed in a lead container, it got sweet again and to them was again drinkable. Problem was, the sweetness was caused by the formation of "sugar of lead" or lead acetate. This practice is one of the reasons lead poisoning was prevalent in the Roman empire.
As an historical aside, the Romans found that if sour (acidified wine that had turned) was placed in a lead container, it got sweet again and to them was again drinkable. Problem was, the sweetness was caused by the formation of "sugar of lead" or lead acetate. This practice is one of the reasons lead poisoning was prevalent in the Roman empire.
Originally Posted By: fsskier
Then, they go on to state 18 kinds of damage that ethanol causes, a list of those (FAA, etc) that ban the use of ethanol, pages of negative comments concerning ethanol....
Many of us have driven cars for 300,000 miles or more without any fuel additives (except for what is in the fuel) and no noticeable need for any....
So, why use it??
Because it's sitting in my closet and if I don't use it in the car then I have no idea what to do with it.
Then, they go on to state 18 kinds of damage that ethanol causes, a list of those (FAA, etc) that ban the use of ethanol, pages of negative comments concerning ethanol....
Many of us have driven cars for 300,000 miles or more without any fuel additives (except for what is in the fuel) and no noticeable need for any....
So, why use it??
Because it's sitting in my closet and if I don't use it in the car then I have no idea what to do with it.
My area has had E-10 for over a decade. Intakes and throttle bodies still get dirty.
Originally Posted By: cbear
My area has had E-10 for over a decade. Intakes and throttle bodies still get dirty.
Just wait, E15 is coming...
My area has had E-10 for over a decade. Intakes and throttle bodies still get dirty.
Just wait, E15 is coming...
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Just wait, E15 is coming...
Hooray, even lower gas mileage!
Just wait, E15 is coming...
Hooray, even lower gas mileage!
Intakes and throttle bodies are dirty from the EGR. Unless you have a TBI additives won't help here.
Ethanol may clean gum and varnish fairly well but I find that combustion chamber carbon forms faster with E10 than E0. Ethanol has increased my need for fuel additives.
Ethanol may clean gum and varnish fairly well but I find that combustion chamber carbon forms faster with E10 than E0. Ethanol has increased my need for fuel additives.
Originally Posted By: sunfire
Why do they still sell injector cleaner and fuel system cleaners if ethanol does such a good job cleaning?
Something doesn't add up.
What's more, the Stabil products came out about a year ago marketing that they now contain MORE cleaners!
The site linked by Bluestream is an interesting read. What I get from it is to really be wary of cleaners/additives that contain and increase the alcohol content. That makes some sense to me. If alcohol can be bad, why would you add more?
Why do they still sell injector cleaner and fuel system cleaners if ethanol does such a good job cleaning?
Something doesn't add up.
What's more, the Stabil products came out about a year ago marketing that they now contain MORE cleaners!
The site linked by Bluestream is an interesting read. What I get from it is to really be wary of cleaners/additives that contain and increase the alcohol content. That makes some sense to me. If alcohol can be bad, why would you add more?
Originally Posted By: sunfire
Why do they still sell injector cleaner and fuel system cleaners if ethanol does such a good job cleaning?
Something doesn't add up.
Because people still buy it and it makes the company $$$. Exxon, Pennzoil, and the like are not in business to make sure our engines are lubed and injectors are clean, they are in business to make a profit.
Why do they still sell injector cleaner and fuel system cleaners if ethanol does such a good job cleaning?
Something doesn't add up.
Because people still buy it and it makes the company $$$. Exxon, Pennzoil, and the like are not in business to make sure our engines are lubed and injectors are clean, they are in business to make a profit.
Thats a good question. Here can be some clues to answers. Maybe a need for more valve and piston detergents, but less so for fuel system cleaners.
http://www.ethanolproducer.com/article.jsp?article_id=3859
Intake Valve Deposits
Recent tests have shown that FFVs using E85 can produce engine deposits. In-depth research on the subject is discussed in a Society of Automobile Engineers technical paper published in October 2007 titled “A Comprehensive Examination of the Effect of Ethanol-blended Gasoline on Intake Valve Deposits in Spark-ignited Engines.” The good news is that appropriate additives specifically formulated for use in E85 can address deposit problems. However, these additives are different from those used in gasoline.
A series of 5,000-mile tests were run on an FFV using varied mixtures of ethanol and gasoline. The results showed that with no additive present, ethanol impacts the amount of intake valve deposits formed in the engine. At lower levels of ethanol such as E10, intake valve deposits actually increase to higher levels than in gasoline alone. However, in blends with higher levels of ethanol, the level of intake valve deposits actually decreases to the level found in gasoline, or even lower. Gasoline and E10 blends are commonly treated to reduce these deposits for improved emissions, performance and fuel economy. E85, even with its lower deposit impact, should still be treated and does not normally contain sufficient levels of deposit-control additives (Figure 1).
http://www.ethanolproducer.com/article.jsp?article_id=3859
Intake Valve Deposits
Recent tests have shown that FFVs using E85 can produce engine deposits. In-depth research on the subject is discussed in a Society of Automobile Engineers technical paper published in October 2007 titled “A Comprehensive Examination of the Effect of Ethanol-blended Gasoline on Intake Valve Deposits in Spark-ignited Engines.” The good news is that appropriate additives specifically formulated for use in E85 can address deposit problems. However, these additives are different from those used in gasoline.
A series of 5,000-mile tests were run on an FFV using varied mixtures of ethanol and gasoline. The results showed that with no additive present, ethanol impacts the amount of intake valve deposits formed in the engine. At lower levels of ethanol such as E10, intake valve deposits actually increase to higher levels than in gasoline alone. However, in blends with higher levels of ethanol, the level of intake valve deposits actually decreases to the level found in gasoline, or even lower. Gasoline and E10 blends are commonly treated to reduce these deposits for improved emissions, performance and fuel economy. E85, even with its lower deposit impact, should still be treated and does not normally contain sufficient levels of deposit-control additives (Figure 1).
That study is great, and real proof of deposits too. Personally I think E10 is causing more deposits only because it's being forced to run at something other than it's best mixture. It's being forced to be mixed with gasoline which has a totally different stoich ratio. It's resulting in a loss of efficiency of both fuels.
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