Corolla consumes synthetic but not conventional?

[pidster]

Wow. I'm quite surprised to see this. Been changing the oil on my mother's 1ZZ-FE 2004 Corolla for her since warranty has expired something like 4 years ago. Used to use synthetics exclusively in my old car, so just used the same in hers. 5w30 Mobil 1, Motomaster Formula 1 synth (rebadged Formula Shell synth), Castrol Syntec and others I can't recall. They all consumed at roughly the same rate, close to 1 litre in 7-10,000km. Napa Gold filters all the way through, PCV valve just fine, dropped in a new (OEM) one couple years ago to no effect.

Filled with Quaker state conventional, 5w30 as always, last fill, and with around 8,000km on the oil now the dipstick reads almost full.

Was planning to stay with conventional in this car from now on anyways, as synthetic started looking un-needed for the OCI and her 90% highway commute at off-peak times. But I never expected consumption to slow by such an amount. Maybe just a fluke?

Anyways it's change time and I happen to have a jug of PYB in the workshop on deck to go in. We'll see if we have the same luck.

Does this make any sense? Anyone had similar experience?

 

[The motor guy]

Alot of times an engine will burn oil when you switch brands and then stabilize after the next oil change. I don't know why but they do this sometimes.

 

[odie]

Been there , started using 5w-30 synthetic oil for a 2000 COROLLA with 70,000+ miles and it started to burn oil rapidly . Went back to conventional 5w-30 and stopped after a few oil changes of conventional . Even changed the PCV when using the synthetic and still consumed oil .

 

[CROWNVIC4LIFE]

Originally Posted By: odie
Been there , started using 5w-30 synthetic oil for a 2000 COROLLA with 70,000+ miles and it started to burn oil rapidly . Went back to conventional 5w-30 and stopped after a few oil changes of conventional . Even changed the PCV when using the synthetic and still consumed oil .


Exact same thing happened to my neighbors 2000 Corolla with 80K miles on it.

 

[pidster]

Thanks guys still don't understand how this would happen but looks like I'm not the only one. It isn't a matter of consumption first OCI when switching oils, I've used these (synths) for as much as 5 OCIs in a row and same consumption. First run of QS it almost stopped.

Like I said, was planning to run conventional from here on out anyways but this certainly confirms it's a good choice. Not only is the oil cheaper and quite unlikely to protect the engine any less, I won't have to pay for that extra bottle for top up

We'll see how PYB does over the winter.

 

[Spyder7]

Haven't noticed any changes in consumption patterns based on oil changes since buying the car in May. Oils used in it since I bought it were GTX 5W30, Toyota dino 5W30, and PP 5W30.

Both QS-GB and PYB are good oils. I have a couple jugs of QS GB stashed, and picked up the other day one of the new API SN PYB.

-Syder

 

[crazyoildude]

use a good dino (something on sale) anything sm rated and that engine will outlast the car and run well over 300,000 miles with 5000 mile oci i see this all the time with those corollas

 

[quint]

It doesnt surprise me that a Corolla will burn one type of oil versus another.

What does surprise me, is that there are apparently Corollas out there that dont burn oil.....

I am the designated oil changer on 3 different Corollas in the family, a 1997, a 2000, and a 2002. All three of them burn oil at a rather alarming rate, none of them leak, and not a puff of smoke anywhere. They run great and all three have been super reliable.

My dads 1997 that he bought new is about to turn 300,000 miles on the original engine, automatic transmission, axles, wheel bearings, exhaust, and water pump. I dont even change the oil anymore, just spin a new filter on every 2-3 months and top it up with a quart or whatever it needs to bring it full. Been doing this for several years now. Awesome little car, but its been burning oil steadily since about 75,000 miles, no matter what brand or type I use.

 

[sunfire]

I have used PP, QHP, and now PYB in my 05 it doesn't consume any oil. What I put in is what I get back. The consumption over 5K is so little it doesn't register on the dip stick.

 

[lipadj46]

I have a 2002 corolla with 55k (bought it a couple years ago with 30k) and have used strictly syn since I bought it and the previous owner's records indicate they used syn also. The motor does not consume any appreciable amount in 5k OCIs. I check weekly because of the warnings but have noticed nothing yet.

 

[odie]

It's a cr*p shoot .

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: quint

What does surprise me, is that there are apparently Corollas out there that dont burn oil.....

I am the designated oil changer on 3 different Corollas in the family, a 1997, a 2000, and a 2002. All three of them burn oil at a rather alarming rate, none of them leak, and not a puff of smoke anywhere. They run great and all three have been super reliable.


The 8th gen Corollas (98-02) are the ones that are mainly impacted by the consumption issue. It is hit or miss and its hard to tell the ratio, since the ones who don't have the problem aren't going to post about it.

There also doesn't seem to be any way to predict whether one that doesn't burn any now will eventually develop the problem or not, since it occurs at varying mileages. In every case I've read its began suddenly, typically a quart every 3 or 4,000 miles. Then over time consumption gradually accelerates. The worst cases I've seen were a quart every 100-300 miles.

I've read enough accounts to know that its potentially reversible - if its caught and dealt with early enough. It may never be restored to 'not burning a drop', but I believe many consumption cases can be restored to a quart, or less, every 3,000 or 4,000 miles - which I consider reasonable.

This is also hit or miss, as unless you're willing to tear the engine down, there's no arbitrary consumption benchmark to tell whether or not its past the point of no return (this is where the rings are no longer simply caked in carbon or stuck down, but have progressed to the point of wear and damage that nothing short of a rebuild will have any impact on).

I've seen knowledgeable Corolla owners I respect who have dismissed consumption at the level of 1 quart every 700 miles as beyond the hope of anything in a bottle. Although anything above that is borderline to me. The closer to that number, the less likely any reasonable success is to be had short of a rebuild.

Mine is a borderline case at (during its peak) 1 quart every 1,200 miles. There's enough room between that level and the give up level, that I haven't written it off as incurable. I've come up already with several different approaches to try (some are already being done, others are coming very soon), and I'm willing to allow it a year of work on the problem before I give up - and I'm giving it that much time simply because, just as the problem didn't develop overnight, I don't expect the solution to appear overnight.

Once the year is up, whether I've made whatever progress I can, or its still where its at, I'll shift to measures aimed at simply preventing the condition from deteriorating further.

As you've said, despite the consumption issue, performance, mileage, reliability, and longevity seem to be unaffected. As long as the thirst is quenched and its kept topped up, these engines should still outlast their bodies, and all the while delivering the same fuel economy it left the factory with.

-Spyder

 

[Spyder7]

I should add that mine also produces no obvious symptoms: no smoke, etc.

Also, the measures I mentioned as ones that are aimed at preventing from deteriorating further, I should probably have elaborated on further (I also consider them useful first things to try over time, particularly if one isn't ready or willing to try something as aggressive as a piston soak):

1. 4 ounces of MMO to every tank of fuel: this is because of the mild solvency in MMO which has potential to reduce carbon deposits and prevent additional deposits from forming in the upper cylinder;

2. Lubro Moly mos2 in the crankcase: this is an anti-friction additive that may aid in freeing the rings up;

3. Lubro Moly Motor Oil Saver in the crankcase: this can be added with mos2 and is designed to reduce consumption that occurs as a result of oil control ring failure (among other things).

None of those products are expensive, and provided they are used as directed, pose no risk to anything. There is much discussion about all of them in the oil & fuel additives forums.

This is not the only approach that offers a measure of success, its just one of many approaches. If you're gun shy about using additives, then no need to consider any of the above or tell me that (as I don't share that concern so I don't particularly care). If anyone has had success in using other measures, I would be interested in hearing about that (I like to read success stories).

-Spyder

 

[M1Accord]

Do you have a leak around the valve cover. My 92 Corolla has that and it a small amount of oil will sip through if I fill her up to the mark. It stops or at least slow down greatly once it is about 1/2 to 1/3 of a quart low. I notice if I use conventional 5W30, it leaks a lot less than M1 5W20 it has now. It's my daily driver so I need to extra mileage gain and easier start up. I pour a 1/4 of a quart in every few hundreds miles.

 

[lipadj46]

Originally Posted By: Spyder7
I should add that mine also produces no obvious symptoms: no smoke, etc.

Also, the measures I mentioned as ones that are aimed at preventing from deteriorating further, I should probably have elaborated on further (I also consider them useful first things to try over time, particularly if one isn't ready or willing to try something as aggressive as a piston soak):

1. 4 ounces of MMO to every tank of fuel: this is because of the mild solvency in MMO which has potential to reduce carbon deposits and prevent additional deposits from forming in the upper cylinder;

2. Lubro Moly mos2 in the crankcase: this is an anti-friction additive that may aid in freeing the rings up;

3. Lubro Moly Motor Oil Saver in the crankcase: this can be added with mos2 and is designed to reduce consumption that occurs as a result of oil control ring failure (among other things).

None of those products are expensive, and provided they are used as directed, pose no risk to anything. There is much discussion about all of them in the oil & fuel additives forums.

This is not the only approach that offers a measure of success, its just one of many approaches. If you're gun shy about using additives, then no need to consider any of the above or tell me that (as I don't share that concern so I don't particularly care). If anyone has had success in using other measures, I would be interested in hearing about that (I like to read success stories).

-Spyder


Not trying to start an argument but I doubt mmo in the fuel and mos2 in the oil are going to clean carbon out of anything or free up stuck rings for that matter. Techron or some other PEA based cleaner will do a little cleaning but if it is bad then shoot some seafoam or power foam or whatever other top end cleaner you like through the intake and hope you don't make things worse somewhere else. Also toyota supposedly has a strong gas additive cleaner.

If mine starts to get bad I will just buy a haynes manual and take it as an opportunity to learn how to rebuild an engine.

 

[javacontour]

I have one of the non-oil burning "Corollas" My 2004 Pontiac Vibe, which is a Toyota Matrix and the Matrix is really the Corolla hatchback. (Did you follow all of that?)

I've put over 7K on the used car I bought, with the ticker now at about one gas tank shy of 121K miles and it's used maybe 8oz of oil in that 8k miles. I've changed the oil once, using PYB about 5.5K miles ago.

As someone said, the first few years of the 1ZZ-FE engines had some consumption issues. I've not seen too many examples of regular consumers on the 2003 or later cars.

But like others, my sample set is limited.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: lipadj46


Not trying to start an argument but I doubt mmo in the fuel and mos2 in the oil are going to clean carbon out of anything or free up stuck rings for that matter. Techron or some other PEA based cleaner will do a little cleaning but if it is bad then shoot some seafoam or power foam or whatever other top end cleaner you like through the intake and hope you don't make things worse somewhere else. Also toyota supposedly has a strong gas additive cleaner.

If mine starts to get bad I will just buy a haynes manual and take it as an opportunity to learn how to rebuild an engine.


I bought the Haynes manual for it shortly after buying the car. Other than a botched oil change I had done while off on sick leave, all the work this car has needed has been done by me. A Regane cycle was one of the very first things it saw - the first time it had ever seen a PEA cleaning, and though it worked many wonders, it did nothing for consumption.

I'm not a fan of Seafoam. If you compare its MSDS and PDS to MMO, you'll see they have many things in common; MMO is milder however, and I prefer a gentler approach that has ZERO chance of making things worse - to me that's counter-productive.

You are entitled to your doubts - its your car, and its completely up to you what you do or don't put in it. I posted an approach that is backed up by anecdotal accounts and consistent with the problem, and the theoretical basis informing my choice of this method as being a safe and inexpensive approach that, if nothing else, offers one approach to halting (and potentially reversing) consumption.

Just as your choice of Seafoam I considered at one point, but then vetoed, others don't share my reservations. As I stated, there is no single approach that is known to be 100% effective. I wish there was. All we have to work with are ideas, some inexpensive and easily done with no risk, others more invasive, and others that become progressively more expensive or risky.

The only thing I encourage is for people with the problem to adopt some approach rather than let it run its inevitable, and eventually irreversible, course. If they try my method and see any success with it - then great. If they try something else instead and it works, to me that's just as good (particularly if they share their method and results).

In weighing the options, I advocate the least invasive, least expensive, and most easily attainable starting approach - but I add that its not the only route to go, and that no matter what route is chosen, there are no guarantees.

I felt that after discussing my own plans, without ever stating what they were, I should at least follow up by providing that info - with the above caveats.

Ultimately my only interest is seeing people have success with whatever route they go, and sharing that information with the rest of us. The more options we have, the better our chances of solving the problem.

-Spyder

 

[Spyder7]

By the way, I should point out that the Haynes manual for the model years that include the 8th generation, is terrible. The necessary specifications and such are all there, but if you're planning to learn how to rebuild an engine using the Haynes manual, I recommend you save your money or invest in something that's going to provide you the much needed info you're going to need in addition to the Haynes manual. The manual, at best, is just a supplement.

In my case I decided to invest $1,200 bucks into a self-paced, diploma level automechanics course. I didn't do it with the intention of using the info for a tear down and rebuild though (even though that's covered in the course, along with everything else needed to pass the ASE certification exams). I did it because I've always enjoyed the subject, its been something I've thought of doing for a long time, and I'm at a place in my career where I can put that money and time into doing something that for me is a hobby and a nice change from my "9-5."

I'm hoping to avoid the need to tear the engine down and rebuild it. And, if I only succeed in halting consumption where its at now, I never will. The knowledge gained from the course will be used for other things, and future cars - but a rebuild isn't in the cards for this car.

-Spyder