2004 Honda Accord maintenance

[onion]

Just acquired a factory service manual on Ebay for $28 shipped.

It remains to be seen what I think of Honda manuals specifically. But with the last two relatively modern vehicles I've owned, I bought the factory service manual at the first opportunity. And IMO, they each paid for themselves with the first repair.

 

[Vikas]

I presume you got the printed manuals, NOT the pirated CD.

 

[onion]

Yeah- I got the paper manual.

I've nothing against digital piracy- I engage in it at every opportunity. But digital manuals just aren't as practical for shop use as a paper manual... and besides, I don't trust those ripped-off CD's. Maybe there's a genuine Honda manual on there... or it might be a worthless Haynes manual along with some spyware.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: onion
but I'm leery of this transmission and unwilling to take a chance on it at this point. So I bought 7 qts of z1.

With so many Honda transmission complaints, it is sometimes difficult to keep track of which model is which.

The 5-speed automatics in the 4-cylinders, regardless of model year, are absolutely bulletproof. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise, as all of the failures on the 5-speeds are with the V6, and that's a different unit all together.

 

[onion]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: onion
but I'm leery of this transmission and unwilling to take a chance on it at this point. So I bought 7 qts of z1.

With so many Honda transmission complaints, it is sometimes difficult to keep track of which model is which.

The 5-speed automatics in the 4-cylinders, regardless of model year, are absolutely bulletproof. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise, as all of the failures on the 5-speeds are with the V6, and that's a different unit all together.


Good to know. And that's consistent with what I've seen in all my googling on the matter. Every single transmission failure that I've come across in model years similar to mine has been with the V6 engine. Maybe this 4-cyl just isn't powerful enough to tear anything up.

 

[onion]

It's been a big day for the 'new' Honda. Had it aligned this morning at the shop recommended by Jihad. Cost me $90 all said and done, but they seem to have done a good job... and they're familiar with both Jihad's Reconstructed Wrecks and imports in general. They had to do a fair amount of adjusting, but the car drives nice and straight now.

Later I changed the engine oil and filter (Mobil Cheap 5W20 and an STP filter). Had a Fram Toughguard on the engine. I'm no fan of Frams, but it was kinda nice being able to just grab the filter and remove it. Not the nicest location I've ever seen for an oil filter, but I guess I've seen worse.

Also did a drain and fill with the ATF. It didn't look bad and I was running low on ambition, so I decided not to bother with the bucket-flush. What I found really strange is that the owner's manual says to check the ATF level with the engine OFF. Never seen or heard of that before with any automatic. But I read that page of the owner's manual three times... I'm quite sure that that's what they meant. Just for laughs I checked it both running and off, and it really didn't make much difference.

The cheap made-in-China radiator that Jihad installed had developed a small leak where a transmission cooler fitting goes through the tank. It's a sort of flare fitting, not unlike a JIC fitting, but with different thread pitch, angle, etc. A nut and washer retain it in the tank. I removed that nut and found that the washer is just a thin steel washer- no sealing ability. Apparently whatever seals this radiator has are inside... and the nut wasn't loose or anything. So I cleaned it all off good and squished a bunch of anaerobic sealant in around the fitting. Put the washer in place, then squished more sealant all over and around the washer... installed the nut and wiped it clean. It's a quick and dirty repair, but I think it'll hold. If not, I'll call up Jihad and see if he has the receipt for this radiator. I refilled with Honda Type 2 coolant. There will be some residual green Zerex in there, but I don't think anything will come of it.

I removed the air cleaner to access the transmission mount. The filter looked new except for a few bugs that I knocked out- reinstalled it. A bracket on that air cleaner is broken- I'll have to patch that up when I get time. The upper transmission mount was definitely broken:

I bolted the new mount in place only to find that the hole for the vertical bolt didn't line up with the bracket on the transmission. This is exactly where the vehicle was wrecked, so obviously things have moved around a bit. A few washers stacked under the mount took care of the problem.

And since I obviously know better than hundreds of Honda engineers, I added a full-sized battery cable from the negative terminal to the transmission case- used a bolt that otherwise only held a lifting bracket.

While running the car in the shop, I noticed that the belt area is pretty noisy. A little tinkering revealed that the tensioner pulley is loose. So a new tensioner and belt will be on the agenda for tomorrow.

So I'm nearly done with all of the stuff that needs to be addressed right away. There's still a whole laundry-list of small repairs and checks that I need to make, but none of it is all that critical right now. If my radiator patch-job holds this weekend, I may turn the car over to the wife on Monday. Or maybe I'll just drive it another week... it's definitely more fun than the ol' Lumina.

 

[Vikas]

His name really Jihad? Or is it term of endearment?

 

[onion]

Yes, that's his name... turns out that it's actually pretty common among some groups. He goes by 'Jay' for obvious reasons... but I'm just amused that I bought a car from Jihad. See, certain members of my extended family aren't happy about me buying a foreign car... and they're REALLY gonna hit the ceiling when I tell them that I bought it from a guy named Jihad.

But I have plans for said family member. I did a little research, and it turns out that my Accord was built in Ohio- while his Avalance was built in Mexico. So it's gonna be a fun conversation.

But really, even though I'm chuckling about his name, Jihad seems like a nice guy. Been here for 20+ years, runs a business, sending his kids to the same local college that I attend. I actually kinda feel sorry for the guy having to hide his first name like that... it can't be easy being Jihad in a place like Kansas. The only reason I know his actual first name (rather than 'Jay') is that he's required to sign and print his name on the title.

 

[steve20]

I absolutely love my 05 Accord 4 cyl. 144K miles -only issue has been one bad coil. IMO you cannot get a better balance of torque and MPG.
While I do the once yearly 3 quart drain of ATF with the Honda Z1 fluid, I have not thought about a valve adjustment-
Good Luck with yours

Steve

 

[Vikas]

The shop I go to is owned by Karim from the mid(ddle)east. When I do find him actually wrenching rather than running the shop, I really give him hard time Great guys all around

 

[thrace]

2003 does have an ATF filter.

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/catimgs/14sda01_atm17.png

See item 7.

 

[onion]

I don't know which transmission that picture shows, or which transmission I have (I do know that it's a 5-spd auto)... but that picture doesn't look like my own transmission. Mine has what appears to be an inline filter bolted right on top of the transmission. Must not be a commonly replaced item though- replacement is not indicated on the maintenance schedule, and the Honda dealer doesn't stock the filter. If it's reasonably cheap, I'll probably replace it one of these days (maybe when I install a cooler) and cut the thing open & have a look.

Anyway, I replaced the belt tensioner pulley and the belt. It was much MUCH easier to replace than the belt and tensioner on my old Corsica- so far I'm impressed with how easy this vehicle is to work on. Yeah, it's small and tight in places- but there's definitely more engine room than a comparable GM.

Checked my quick & dirty radiator repair, and it appears to be holding just fine.

I've been keeping an eye on the master cylinder, and I'm beginning to think that I WON'T have to replace it. The first time I washed the area off, a little brake fluid came back the next day. Washed it off again, and just a tiny amount came out. Washed it again, and none at all has returned. I know that the front brake pads have just been replaced- and I know that sometimes if a master cylinder is moved beyond its normal range of travel, it can make seals leak (as they encounter new crud and new surfaces. And the leak is often temporary. Hopefully that's the case here.

I repaired the broken air cleaner bracket- it was making an annoying rattle. I used a technique that I invented when I was 19 and needed to repair a plastic part that was hard to come by and difficult to glue effectively. Now that I'm taking some engineering classes, I realize that I was effectively building a composite material for the repair- with JB Weld as the matrix and steel wire as the reinforcement. It's a little time consuming and a little ugly, but very effective if you don't want to spend much money or search the junkyard for parts. I've documented the repair here... I reckon some people here may get a kick out of it:

Here we have the broken air cleaner base:

First step, drill lots of tiny holes all around the break area:

Do this for both pieces... both sides of the break:

Now sew the two pieces together with thin steel wire. I've used small strands of copper wire in the past, and it works ok. But I think steel wire is better for obvious reasons. This wire is some 'jewelry wire' that the wife had laying around... costs about $.50 per roll. I probably used 6 ft or more of wire. More is better IMO:

Now, pack JB Weld (or probably any ol' epoxy- this is JB Quick) in all around and between the wires, paying special attention to pack the epoxy through the small drilled holes- to ensure that this repair remains tight.

It makes for a really sturdy and permanent repair (if a little ugly). I used exactly the same technique to repair some heater controls on an old F250 approximately 14 years ago. A friend of mine still owns the truck, and the repair still holds.

Anyway, I loosened and re-tightened the motor mounts as per Honda TSB 04-024. The front mount moved a little, so there was definitely tension on it. I ran an idle-learn procedure while I was at it. At this point the vibration is still noticeable, but much better. And from what I've read, SOME amount of vibration at idle is just inherent to the design. At some point I'll get around to replacing the plugs, setting the valves, and checking/adjusting the idle speed (all these are due soon enough according to the Honda maintenance schedule), so these MIGHT improve the idle. But it's no big deal at this point.

Yesterday we took the car on a drive for about two hours. The car ran great... no problems to speak of except that the power outlets weren't working (a 15-amp fuse fixed that). So I officially handed the car over to the wife today... and scraped the "Wicked, Wicked Girl" sticker off her old Lumina. I thought about just covering up 'girl' with 'mechanic'... but it just doesn't sound right.

Time for me to go buy a seat cover for the Lumina so I don't grease those light gray seats on my drive home from work.

 

[moving2]

Originally Posted By: onion
I used a technique that I invented when I was 19 and needed to repair a plastic part that was hard to come by and difficult to glue effectively.


onion- thanks for sharing the AWESOME repair technique! I have a few places I can try this. Has it been your experience that epoxy alone typically doesn't hold over time for repairs like this?

 

[onion]

Yeah, that's been my experience. Some epoxies hold better than others... original JB Weld really is hard to beat (but it takes a LONG time to harden). But epoxy seems to work best with materials like wood or clean metal. Never had much luck repairing plastic with just an adhesive- of any sort.

 

[addyguy]

Onion,

Just curious - with the experience you had with your Corsica...are you worried about the same thing happening with your 175,000-mile Lumina???

Sounds like it's about time!

 

[onion]

Well yes, the transmission could fail at any moment seeings how my Lumina has 225,000 miles. Like the Corsica, it's been religiously maintained. But the Corsica ran perfectly one minute, and had completely and catastrophically failed the next. Not even a HINT of warning.

I've learned my lesson... no more long road-trips with the beater. I'll either take the good car, or I'll fly. The Corsica was no big loss- we had definitely got our money out of it... times three. But the unexpected financial hit and time demands have been difficult... and I have WAY too much going on in my life as it is.

But I think the ol' Lumina still has lots of years/miles left in her. This car's impressive 225k miles are easily 90% highway miles, and I have maintenance records from day one. At this point, she'll just be kept on in-town duty (which is what I generally did with the Corsica... long story as to why I decided to drive that car on a 2000-mile round-trip, of which it successfully completed maybe 1200 miles.) Really, I think that if I'd chosen to fly rather than drive, I'd still be commuting in that old beat-down Corsica. But even though it has 45,000 more miles than the ol' Corsica had, this Lumina is in MUCH better condition. The Corsica had a hard life, and it showed. I'm looking forward to vastly improved invisibility in the Lumina... I'll no longer be driving a cop-magnet (the Corsica would've looked perfectly at home in the worst ghetto or trailer-park you can imagine).

But this is the chance you take when you drive an old relic. We all knew it was coming in one form or another- just never expected it to be so sudden or so far from home.

I HOPE that my friend finds the time and ambition to tear down the Corsica's transmission, as I'd like to know exactly what failed and why. But odds are I'll never know.

I think we'll be taking the Accord on a 600-mile round-trip this weekend. Wish me luck.

 

[JOD]

Do you know anything about the trans filter? Does this car have one?

[quote/]

As it turns out, it does. Why this is such a secret it beyond me.

I stumbled across this video here: http://sites.google.com/site/my2002crv/

Turns out pretty much every Honda except the Ridgeline and Odyssey use this filter. You have to take off the bumper to access it. This will make it a lot easier to drain and fill.

The part number for the 4C engines is 25430-PLR-003.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: onion

Do you know anything about the trans filter? Does this car have one?



As it turns out, it does. Why this is such a secret it beyond me.

I stumbled across this video here: http://sites.google.com/site/my2002crv/

Turns out pretty much every Honda except the Ridgeline and Odyssey use this filter. You have to take off the bumper to access it. This will make it a lot easier to drain and fill.

The part number for the 4C engines is 25430-PLR-003.

 

[onion]

I went down to the Honda dealer and bought one of those ATF filters. Cost me $32- and they don't even keep them in stock. I did some shopping around beforehand, and was only able to beat the OEM price by $5 at some out-of-the-way transmission shop (for a no-name aftermarket filter). Most parts stores couldn't even look it up.

I'll install it sometime this weekend, and probably cut the old filter open to see how much crud is in there. I actually found where somebody has already cut one open and posted pictures on some Honda forum (can't find the link right now), so I know that this is a real filter with a paper element- not just a strainer or something. I have no idea why Honda thinks this is a 'lifetime' filter... but I don't. This filter is quite easy to access on this car (compared with that Odyssey)- it's right on top of the transmission.

The car made its 600-mile round trip last weekend with no problems. Got 31mpg on the trip... not spectacular, but not bad. I still need to adjust one headlight and investigate an annoying dash rattle (I think I saw a service bulletin on that somewhere). Other than that, the car is running great.

After driving this car a little harder just to see what it'll do, I think it's isn't just 'a little' quicker than the Corsica- it's A LOT quicker. This engine pulls good down low... and it just keeps pulling hard as it revs. I guess that's the variable valve timing at work.

I still plan to install a trans cooler at some point (I've put up a separate thread for that), and do lots of minor, nitpicky maintenance as I get around to it. I did a turkey-baster p/s flush today. The fluid (probably original) was about the color and translucency of Pepsi. I'll probably change what's in the reservoir roughly every oil change until it starts to look better.

Oh yeah- my $28 factory service manual arrived the other day. This thing is awesome... more detail than one could ever want to know about this car. There are instructions and pictures of pretty much every part of the vehicle- down to the last bolt... detailed wiring diagrams... even instructions on how to remove and disassemble the seats or adjust the sunroof. This should come in handy when I get around to adjusting the valves in a couple months.

 

[mechanicx]

Good to hear you are going to replace the filter. It is sort of a mystery to me why Honda and its dealers act like this filter is almost non-servicable or even non-existent when as you said often times it is easy to access and clearly not a long life filter. I think I've seen that filter for under $20 on Honda online parts stores. So $32 sounds pretty steep, but you'd probably want to order a couple parts at a time to combine shipping and save any real amount.