06 Duramax, Amsoil 15W-40, 16,500 miles

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vehicle-----------------06 Chevrolet Silverado HD2500 6.6L, turbo diesel Duramax
OIL---------------------Amsoil AME 15W-40 diesel oil
oil additive------------4 ounces LC20 total over last 16,500 miles
Make up oil-----------1 quart Amsoil ATM 10W-30
Engine oil capacity-----10 quarts
oil filter----------------Amsoil EAO52
air filter----------------PowerCore
miles on oil------------16,500 (apprx 11 months--9/1/09 thru 10/5/10)
Miles on filter----------16,500
miles on vehicle--------58,500

UOA by Oil Analyzers: LAB COMMENTS: Data flagged for observation only; Copper is at a MODERATE LEVEL; Suspect most of the copper may be coming from the lube cooler (as applicable); Potassium is at a MINOR LEVEL; Potassium sources: coolant (antifreeze), lube additive or supplement, solder flux, coating on new bearings, rust preventive coating, or environmental. Your note was taken into consideration; Oil is suitable for continued use. Re-sample in 7,000 miles or 125 hours.
Overall severity of report--------2 (abnormal)

WEAR METALS in PPM:
iron--------------------34
chromium--------------0
nickel------------------0
aluminum---------------3
copper-----------------681
lead--------------------1
tin----------------------2
cadmium---------------0
silver-------------------0
vanadium--------------0
CONTAMINANT METALS:
silicon-----------------15
sodium----------------5
potassium-------------26
MULTI-SOURCE METALS:
titanium---------------0
molybdenum----------0
Antimony-------------0
Manganese-----------0
Lithium---------------0
boron----------------3
ADDITIVE METALS:
magnesium-------------11
calcium----------------3303
barium-----------------0
phosphorus------------1123
zinc--------------------1272
Lube change-----------no
Lube filter change------no
fuel Soot-------------------.1%
Water visc40------------------n/a
visc100----------------13.5
TAN-------------------n/a
TBN-------------------6.62
oxidation---------------29
nitration----------------15


NOTES/COMMENTS: This is a relative's vehicle, which sees a substantial amount of towing. I'm going to recommend he add GM coolant seal tabs to water coolant & change oil every 5,000 miles til copper, potassium issue solved.


PREVIOUS UOA: None.
 
I'm hoping the copper is an oil cooler....beyond that, report looks pretty darn good.

If there is a coolant problem, it SO minor, it's almost not worth mentioning.
 
I would use the OEM air filter. Don't use any of those high flow filters. Not on a diesel it will cost you in the long run. You don't want to have to install a new turbo if you don't have to. The silicon levels shouldn't really get much more than 7 ppm. I think the dmax uses a donaldson filter and it doesn't get any better than that.
 
I'll bet you a dollar that if you got away from the Amsoil and the additive, that the Cu would come down in just a few short OCI flushes.

I cannot explain why, but there are times when the expensive PAOs tend to really send Cu through the roof on a Dmax. Some say it's "chemistry", others talk of oxidation release, etc.

All I know is that I've seen a lot of these over the last few years, and the commonality is typically the use of Amsoil (or other similar products).

The often heard excuse is "the cooler is shedding Cu". Well, after 58k miles, the Cu available for shedding in the cooler should have been long gone. When you see dino UOAs in Dmax engines, they Cu may spike in the first 15k miles, but after that, it typically drops to less than 7ppm. And it stays there, unless you put in some Amsoil.

Since we don't know the size of the Cu particles, we can only speculate. 681ppm of Cu is a LOT of Cu; there is no way around that. Since the UOA only can "see" particles of 5um or less, one could argue that these "small" particles are not likely to do much damage; possibly true. But one might also say that there is a high probability of large stuff floating around, because of the shear quanity of Cu, and the UOA simply cannot see it.

I'm not saying that Amsoil is a bad product; they make excellent stuff. I'm saying that at times, the Amsoil products create such high "noise" in a UOA that you simply cannot discern a true problem from the inordinately high wear metal. It's a matter of trends and ranges; you cannot discern a true problem with numbers that high. You'll never see a bearing issue when the Cu is already stupid-high.

Also, I've heard that the Cu will come down after continued use of the Amsoil. That also might be true, but I've seen this go on for thousands upon thousands of miles in some Dmax engines, and the owners finally get tired of it, and go back to dino.

Further, if that Cu shedding does continue, then what does it say of the material being removed? At some point, do you not think that a loss of Cu from the cooler may subjugate the cooler to some type of thinner wall or braze joint? I cannot say it happens for sure, but others cannot say it does not happen for sure. It is likely, at best, an unknown.

Again, I'm not "blaming" Amsoil here. They have excellent products and I believe them to be credible and viable. But I am stating the Amsoil may not be the "best" selection for all applications, and historically, Dmax engines seem to have issues with premium PAO products, and aftermarket additives.

OCI'ing at shorter intervals will bring down the total ppm count in the UOA, but it may not affect the actual shedding rate. If you have to OCI with high-dollar expensive $$$ PAO every 5k miles, where's the point of using it at all? I run my '06 Dmax with heaving towing, OCI once a year (around 7k miles), and get excellent UOAs with dino 10w-30 HDEO. There are plenty of other UOAs with other brands and grades of dino oils that show the Dmax is quaite capable of 10k miles OCIs, even with heavy towing. It would be much more cost effective to do the dino than to OCI with Amsoil every 5k miles!

Just food for thought ...
 
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I would not call Fe wear "low", but I would agree that it's not exaggerated. The Fe at 34ppm is not outrageous, but on a per-mile basis I've seen better from conventional fluids than this example.


I'm not familiar with the LC20; does it contain or otherwise affect K? Since the Na is low, a coolant leak may not be present.
 
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This is first run with Amsoil. I recommended he change oil ASAP & use conventional diesel oil for 5,000 mile intervals til copper & potassium issue solved. Re-sample around 10,000 miles--end of 2nd oil change. Point one per cent soot seems good for the mileage--is it? When copper/potassium issue solved, I'd be interested in seeing what Amsoil HDD 5W-30 would do.
Looks like there was alot of life left in the oil.
 
I don't know if LC20 contains or can effect potassium. I've directed that question to Lube Control.
 
Originally Posted By: Mokanic
If I am not mistaken, some 06 DMAX engines had head gasket issues.


That would be news to me and my '06, and I'm on several GM sites frequently. I'm not saying you're wrong; it just supprises me to hear as such, because I'm immersed in the topic so frequently. Do you have some links to credible sources I can research? Again, not flaming you; just want to stay current on topics that affect my direct investment.

The '06 LBZ is probably the "best" of all the Dmax engines because it is "pre-regeneration" (LMM), and yet has the block and rotating assy upgrades for the greater power rating, over the earlier LLY engines. It is, in essence, the one most sought after in resale.

There were some early '06 engines with glow plug issues, and there was a re-program load from GM that addressed the issue. Other than that, the LBZ engines have been nearly flawless. The later LMM engines were essentially the same mechanically, but (as stated) you get into the regeneration events, and the negative fuel-dilution and fuel-econonmy effects that go with it.
 
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Lube Control replied that their product (LC20) contains no potassium & no sodium.
 
The owner said he may have added about a quart to coolant resevoir a couple months ago. Otherwise he hasn't touched it since new.

Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
I would use the OEM air filter. Don't use any of those high flow filters. Not on a diesel it will cost you in the long run. You don't want to have to install a new turbo if you don't have to. The silicon levels shouldn't really get much more than 7 ppm. I think the dmax uses a donaldson filter and it doesn't get any better than that.

Local dealer said they sell AC Delco filters for the 06 Duramax. He didn't know anything about the media. Donalsdons web site doesn't show one for the 06. Amsoil does't offer an EAA filter (with Donaldson synthetic nanofiber media) for the 06.
He wants to resample in 5,000 miles due to warranty expiring in April. Going to hold off on adding the seal tabs.
 
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My apologies. It was the 04DMAX that had overheating/head gasket issues. Early on, problems came forward with customers complaining of severe overheating, and, in some situations blown head gaskets. Although initially GM denied that it was a problem, after it was sued by a consumer group it relented and included overheating and blown head gaskets.

head casting is c/n 8gf1
block casting is c/n 22351021213
GM upgraded the size and output of the water pump in 06-up engines which eliminated the problem.
Once again, I had my year models wrong but I build em' for a living so I knew that it was an issue on some.
 
Yes, the second generation LLY did have overheating issues. They up'ed the power from the LB7, and the cooling system was not up to the increase in heat load. The LBZ cooling package addressed this issue.
 
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I'll bet you a dollar that if you got away from the Amsoil and the additive, that the Cu would come down in just a few short OCI flushes.


I have also seen many instances posted on a Duramax with high copper when running Amsoil. I am running Amsoil 5W40 CJ-4 diesel oil at this time. I just got an analysis done on mine. With 8,813 miles on the oil and 37,532 miles on the engine copper was at 4 which is about 1/3 of Blackstones average for this engine.

Has anyone ever noticed a trend with the different versions of Amsoil diesel oils and copper in these engines?
I know they have a series 3000,a 15W40 Heavy duty diesel & marine and the new CJ-4 rated oils.
 
Yes, that Amsoil/Cu issue is well known.

Generally, it is considered not detrimental to the engine, but there are times it makes one wonder just how much Cu a cooler can shed and still be OK. The high Cu reading can really wreak havoc on a UOA, grossly masking any other Cu potential issue. I've read UOAs where the CU was in the 600 - 1000ppm range; that is so high it's almost nuts. That would be the extreme upper end of the range, but it certainly has happened on more than one occasion. It is not at all unheard of to see Amsoil/Dmax UOAs be in the 150-400ppm range with some regularity. Sometimes it settles down nicely, other times it just keeps on running, and the owner gets tired of the costs for the lube/UOAs and just reverts back to dino oil, where things settle down quickly.

The fact that your's is at 4ppm is odd, to be honest. But it's a good kind of "odd".
 
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