It would be nice if they said which or what year older Ford or GM vehicles. It would also be nice if they included the specs it meets on the label. Maybe it's just the Canadian version that isn't labeled well?
Did Mobil 1 recently change the synth. ATF fluid?
- Thread starter shpankey
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I have got a bunch of bottles and they have just about every transmission ever made listed on the back and the specs to match.
I just checked my stash of M1 ATF and I have some bottles with a black cap that say Multi-vehicle Formula and have Mercon V on the front. (I bought these in the US a while ago)
Other M1 just says "recommeded for older Ford and GM vehicle" and do not say multi-vhehicle. These are in Canadian 1 liter bottles (which are the same as the US quart bottles)
Other M1 just says "recommeded for older Ford and GM vehicle" and do not say multi-vhehicle. These are in Canadian 1 liter bottles (which are the same as the US quart bottles)
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I'm going to resurrect this thread rather than start a new one and as question relates to the topic.
I too was looking at M1 ATF recently in relation to the Mobil Q&A and noticed that in addition to no longer recommending it for ATF+3/+4, it's also no longer recommended for Toyota T-IV. I swear it used to be. Does JASO 1-A supersede JWS 3309? Is Mobil trying to separate out their line up into many different fluids? Didn't M1 ATF used to be recommended for a slew of specs. Or am I remembering things wrong? Does anybody recall? Am I mistaken?
I too was looking at M1 ATF recently in relation to the Mobil Q&A and noticed that in addition to no longer recommending it for ATF+3/+4, it's also no longer recommended for Toyota T-IV. I swear it used to be. Does JASO 1-A supersede JWS 3309? Is Mobil trying to separate out their line up into many different fluids? Didn't M1 ATF used to be recommended for a slew of specs. Or am I remembering things wrong? Does anybody recall? Am I mistaken?
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"Older FORD & GM vehicle", the best advice would be to know the specification that is needed for the particular vehicle and look for that specification on the bottle of ATF that you are buying.
The Mobil 1 ATF HAS changed over the years...
For example, a while back they stated Mercon/Dex III, so you would use it in the OLDER Ford vehicle that called for Mercon, but NOT Mercon V, at the time FORD did not want you to put Mercon V in a vehicle that called for Mercon.
FORD changed their tune and now state to use Mercon V in Mercon applications, so the bottle will now state that is is for Mercon/Mercon V applications.
The Mobil 1 ATF underwent some sort of change to be applicable for the tougher Mercon V specification.
Meeting the Mercon V specification permits them to cover all the FORD applications that the had been covering PLUS the newer FORDS that call for the Mercon V.
The Mobil 1 ATF HAS changed over the years...
For example, a while back they stated Mercon/Dex III, so you would use it in the OLDER Ford vehicle that called for Mercon, but NOT Mercon V, at the time FORD did not want you to put Mercon V in a vehicle that called for Mercon.
FORD changed their tune and now state to use Mercon V in Mercon applications, so the bottle will now state that is is for Mercon/Mercon V applications.
The Mobil 1 ATF underwent some sort of change to be applicable for the tougher Mercon V specification.
Meeting the Mercon V specification permits them to cover all the FORD applications that the had been covering PLUS the newer FORDS that call for the Mercon V.
Here is a link to the latest PDS on the M1 ATF. They have made some recent changes to what they recommend it for.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_Synthetic_ATF.aspx
As you can see they have dropped many of the previous vehicle recommendations, especially imports, and now only spec this as a dex/merc type fluid versus a universal multi-vehicle fluid.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_Synthetic_ATF.aspx
As you can see they have dropped many of the previous vehicle recommendations, especially imports, and now only spec this as a dex/merc type fluid versus a universal multi-vehicle fluid.
Originally Posted By: Steve S
New and improves = GPIII
but you can still meet the major OEM specs being group III. Can you think of one that requires PAO?
Originally Posted By: ABomb369
As you can see they have dropped many of the previous vehicle recommendations, especially imports, and now only spec this as a dex/merc type fluid versus a universal multi-vehicle fluid.
That appears to be the case I guess. Too bad really.
New and improves = GPIII
but you can still meet the major OEM specs being group III. Can you think of one that requires PAO?
Originally Posted By: ABomb369
As you can see they have dropped many of the previous vehicle recommendations, especially imports, and now only spec this as a dex/merc type fluid versus a universal multi-vehicle fluid.
That appears to be the case I guess. Too bad really.
the website also says it meets JASO 1-A. it may cover some imports.... here is a previous discussion on JASO on BITOG
Originally Posted By: blue94
Originally Posted By: Steve S
New and improves = GPIII
but you can still meet the major OEM specs being group III. Can you think of one that requires PAO?
Originally Posted By: ABomb369
As you can see they have dropped many of the previous vehicle recommendations, especially imports, and now only spec this as a dex/merc type fluid versus a universal multi-vehicle fluid.
That appears to be the case I guess. Too bad really.
Exactly. I was thinking about using it but it doesn't even have Nissan Matic-D applications now. I'll stay away. I know for sure it used to be recommended for that.
Originally Posted By: Steve S
New and improves = GPIII
but you can still meet the major OEM specs being group III. Can you think of one that requires PAO?
Originally Posted By: ABomb369
As you can see they have dropped many of the previous vehicle recommendations, especially imports, and now only spec this as a dex/merc type fluid versus a universal multi-vehicle fluid.
That appears to be the case I guess. Too bad really.
Exactly. I was thinking about using it but it doesn't even have Nissan Matic-D applications now. I'll stay away. I know for sure it used to be recommended for that.
You're right. They have no mention of Matic-D.
I also looked at their Multi-Vehicle which used to cover a lot of specs too but it, like M1 ATF, is now calling itself a Mex/MercV too. Weird.
These changes make their other Dex/Merc useless and unnecessary.
I wonder if they are in fact changing the fluids to a Dex/MercV add pack vs a multi-vehicle or, is the legal dept making them revise what they say if they don't have an OEM license? Unfortunately, I'd guess they're changing things up which is too bad. While some people don't like multi-vehicle ATFs, I do. I'm not scared of one-size fits all and if you have a car that specs a Dex/Merc type fluid and a foreign car, it's nice to be able to have one fluid that you can pick up locally. For example has anyone ever seen 3309, Matic-D, Z1, SP-III etc at anyplace except the over priced dealers? No.
On the side, why do they keep mentioning JASO 1-A. Does anybody have a car that specs this? No. All the Japanese makers spec their own fluids with no mention of this so saying something's JASO 1-A is of no help to the buyer.
I also looked at their Multi-Vehicle which used to cover a lot of specs too but it, like M1 ATF, is now calling itself a Mex/MercV too. Weird.
These changes make their other Dex/Merc useless and unnecessary.
I wonder if they are in fact changing the fluids to a Dex/MercV add pack vs a multi-vehicle or, is the legal dept making them revise what they say if they don't have an OEM license? Unfortunately, I'd guess they're changing things up which is too bad. While some people don't like multi-vehicle ATFs, I do. I'm not scared of one-size fits all and if you have a car that specs a Dex/Merc type fluid and a foreign car, it's nice to be able to have one fluid that you can pick up locally. For example has anyone ever seen 3309, Matic-D, Z1, SP-III etc at anyplace except the over priced dealers? No.
On the side, why do they keep mentioning JASO 1-A. Does anybody have a car that specs this? No. All the Japanese makers spec their own fluids with no mention of this so saying something's JASO 1-A is of no help to the buyer.
This is currently still up on the Mobil1 Racing store. It shows all the spec they used to adversize. The link to the PDS is now dead. http://www.mobil1racingstore.com/mo1syatf.html
Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is designed to provide significantly higher levels of performance above conventional fluids in most domestic and imported passenger vehicles.
The synthetic base oil enables excellent performance even in the severest of operating conditions. It offers outstanding gear shifting and power transfer performance versus conventional ATF fluids. The inherently high viscosity index and stability of Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF help protect against thermal breakdown at high operating temperatures, while still providing outstanding performance at very low ambient temperatures.
Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF combines high-performance synthetic hydrocarbon base oils and a superior balanced additive system to provide significantly higher levels of performance above conventional fluids. This unique, advanced technology provides long drain capability, excellent friction retention, and low-temperature fluidity. Further, it helps to improve overall transmission durability and cleanliness. Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is also compatible with conventional ATFs.
Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is formulated for use in most North American, European and Asian vehicles.
* Approved for Allison C-4 applications
* Exceeds JASO 1-A performance standard
* Also suitable for use in vehicles that specify the following fluid requirements: o Audi G 052 025-A2, G 052 162-A1
o BMW LA2634
o Esso LT 71141
o ETL-7045E, ETL-8072B, N402
o Ford* MERCON*, MERCON V, MERCON LV
o All 2005 and earlier GM vehicles**
o Honda ATF-Z1*
o Hyundai SP-II, SP-III
o Idemitsu K17
o JWS 3309
o Kia SP-II, SP-III
o MAN 339F, V1, V2, Z1, Z2, Z3
o Mazda ATF-III, ATF-MV
o Mercedes-Benz 236.1, 236.2, 236.5, 236.6, 236.7, 236.9
o Mitsubishi Diamond SP-II, SP-III
o Nissan Matic-D, Matic-J, Matic-K
o Subaru ATF
o Toyota T-III, T-IV
o Voith 55.6335.XX (G607, G1363)
o Volvo 97340
o ZF TE-ML 03D, 04D, 09, 14A, 14B, 16L, 17C
* Not recommend for CVT applications, Mercon® SP, Ford Type F
** Mobil DEXRON-VI ATF is recommended for 2006 and newer GM vehicles and improved performance in 2005 and earlier vehicles, wherever DEXRON is specified.
Automatic transmissions should be checked for proper fluid levels at regular intervals, and the fluid should be changed at manufacturer-recommended intervals. However, this may vary due to your vehicle's operating conditions. Some manufacturers recommend more frequent changes of transmission fluid under severe driving conditions, such as heavy traffic, hot weather and trailer pulling.
This is what is now on the Mobil1 website with the active link to the new PDS.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Other_Products/Mobil_1_Synthetic_ATF.aspx
Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF outperforms conventional automatic transmission fluids and helps to provide outstanding resistance to oil breakdown and deposits. The inherently high viscosity index and stability of Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF helps to protect against thermal breakdown at high operating temperatures, while still providing outstanding performance at ambient temperatures as low as -54°C. Further, it helps to improve overall transmission durability and cleanliness. Key potential benefits include:
* Helps to improve and extend transmission efficiency, smooth shifting performance and fuel economy.
* Keeps transmissions clean to help provide outstanding performance even under severe driving conditions.
* Significant wear protection which can contribute to long transmission life.
* Helps to provide prompt and reliable lubrication at ambient temperatures down to
-54°C.
* Viscosity retention even under some of the severest heavy duty, high temperature operating conditions.
* Reduced concern in top-off emergencies and excellent leakage control.
Applications
Approved against the off-highway power transmission requirements of Allison C-4.
Specifications and Approvals
Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF has the following builder approvals: Allison C4
Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF meets or exceeds the requirements of: JASO 1-A and Ford Mercon V
Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is recommended by ExxonMobil for use in applications requiring: GM Dexron IIIH, GM Dexron IIIG, GM Dexron IIE, GM Dexron IID, GM Dexron II, GM Dexron, Ford Mercon, Voith H55.6335.3X, MAN 339 V1, Volvo 97340 and Volvo 97341
Automatic transmissions should be checked for proper fluid levels at regular intervals, and the fluid should be changed at manufacturer-recommended intervals. However, this may vary due to your vehicle's operating conditions. Some manufacturers recommend more frequent changes of transmission fluid under severe driving conditions, such as heavy traffic, hot weather and trailer pulling.
Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is designed to provide significantly higher levels of performance above conventional fluids in most domestic and imported passenger vehicles.
The synthetic base oil enables excellent performance even in the severest of operating conditions. It offers outstanding gear shifting and power transfer performance versus conventional ATF fluids. The inherently high viscosity index and stability of Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF help protect against thermal breakdown at high operating temperatures, while still providing outstanding performance at very low ambient temperatures.
Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF combines high-performance synthetic hydrocarbon base oils and a superior balanced additive system to provide significantly higher levels of performance above conventional fluids. This unique, advanced technology provides long drain capability, excellent friction retention, and low-temperature fluidity. Further, it helps to improve overall transmission durability and cleanliness. Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is also compatible with conventional ATFs.
Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is formulated for use in most North American, European and Asian vehicles.
* Approved for Allison C-4 applications
* Exceeds JASO 1-A performance standard
* Also suitable for use in vehicles that specify the following fluid requirements: o Audi G 052 025-A2, G 052 162-A1
o BMW LA2634
o Esso LT 71141
o ETL-7045E, ETL-8072B, N402
o Ford* MERCON*, MERCON V, MERCON LV
o All 2005 and earlier GM vehicles**
o Honda ATF-Z1*
o Hyundai SP-II, SP-III
o Idemitsu K17
o JWS 3309
o Kia SP-II, SP-III
o MAN 339F, V1, V2, Z1, Z2, Z3
o Mazda ATF-III, ATF-MV
o Mercedes-Benz 236.1, 236.2, 236.5, 236.6, 236.7, 236.9
o Mitsubishi Diamond SP-II, SP-III
o Nissan Matic-D, Matic-J, Matic-K
o Subaru ATF
o Toyota T-III, T-IV
o Voith 55.6335.XX (G607, G1363)
o Volvo 97340
o ZF TE-ML 03D, 04D, 09, 14A, 14B, 16L, 17C
* Not recommend for CVT applications, Mercon® SP, Ford Type F
** Mobil DEXRON-VI ATF is recommended for 2006 and newer GM vehicles and improved performance in 2005 and earlier vehicles, wherever DEXRON is specified.
Automatic transmissions should be checked for proper fluid levels at regular intervals, and the fluid should be changed at manufacturer-recommended intervals. However, this may vary due to your vehicle's operating conditions. Some manufacturers recommend more frequent changes of transmission fluid under severe driving conditions, such as heavy traffic, hot weather and trailer pulling.
This is what is now on the Mobil1 website with the active link to the new PDS.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Other_Products/Mobil_1_Synthetic_ATF.aspx
Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF outperforms conventional automatic transmission fluids and helps to provide outstanding resistance to oil breakdown and deposits. The inherently high viscosity index and stability of Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF helps to protect against thermal breakdown at high operating temperatures, while still providing outstanding performance at ambient temperatures as low as -54°C. Further, it helps to improve overall transmission durability and cleanliness. Key potential benefits include:
* Helps to improve and extend transmission efficiency, smooth shifting performance and fuel economy.
* Keeps transmissions clean to help provide outstanding performance even under severe driving conditions.
* Significant wear protection which can contribute to long transmission life.
* Helps to provide prompt and reliable lubrication at ambient temperatures down to
-54°C.
* Viscosity retention even under some of the severest heavy duty, high temperature operating conditions.
* Reduced concern in top-off emergencies and excellent leakage control.
Applications
Approved against the off-highway power transmission requirements of Allison C-4.
Specifications and Approvals
Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF has the following builder approvals: Allison C4
Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF meets or exceeds the requirements of: JASO 1-A and Ford Mercon V
Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is recommended by ExxonMobil for use in applications requiring: GM Dexron IIIH, GM Dexron IIIG, GM Dexron IIE, GM Dexron IID, GM Dexron II, GM Dexron, Ford Mercon, Voith H55.6335.3X, MAN 339 V1, Volvo 97340 and Volvo 97341
Automatic transmissions should be checked for proper fluid levels at regular intervals, and the fluid should be changed at manufacturer-recommended intervals. However, this may vary due to your vehicle's operating conditions. Some manufacturers recommend more frequent changes of transmission fluid under severe driving conditions, such as heavy traffic, hot weather and trailer pulling.
Originally Posted By: blue94
...and they don't have a single Chrysler fluid (ATF+4). I know that had something that used meet the Chrysler specs. Have they sworn off Chrysler?
They answered the Chrysler question in their Q&A, at least for why the Synthetic doesn't have a Chrysler spec on the back.
Q. Why is M1 synthetic ATF no longer recommended for Chrysler applications (ATF+3, ATF+4)?
A. Mobil 1 Automatic Transmission Fluid is designed for use in a wide variety of vehicles, including General Motors and Ford vehicles, as well as some imports. The specifications of Chrysler transmissions have evolved in such a way that Mobil 1 Automatic Transmission Fluid no longer meets them.
...and they don't have a single Chrysler fluid (ATF+4). I know that had something that used meet the Chrysler specs. Have they sworn off Chrysler?
They answered the Chrysler question in their Q&A, at least for why the Synthetic doesn't have a Chrysler spec on the back.
Q. Why is M1 synthetic ATF no longer recommended for Chrysler applications (ATF+3, ATF+4)?
A. Mobil 1 Automatic Transmission Fluid is designed for use in a wide variety of vehicles, including General Motors and Ford vehicles, as well as some imports. The specifications of Chrysler transmissions have evolved in such a way that Mobil 1 Automatic Transmission Fluid no longer meets them.
yeah, will NOT BE buying this version. you will be setting yourself up for failure.
"The specifications of Chrysler transmissions have evolved in such a way that Mobil 1 Automatic Transmission Fluid no longer meets them."
So ExMo is saying that although their fluid used to be appropriate for a '94 Chrysler LeBaron that specs ATF+3, because Chrysler's transmissions have evolved, it no longer is?
What kind of mumbo-jumbo is that?!
So ExMo is saying that although their fluid used to be appropriate for a '94 Chrysler LeBaron that specs ATF+3, because Chrysler's transmissions have evolved, it no longer is?
What kind of mumbo-jumbo is that?!
Maybe I was mistaken and M1 ATF never did or hasn't recently met ATF+3/+4. However, XOM did, until recently, have a fluid that did. Here's the link to the PDS:
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_ATF_4.aspx
found on this tread:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966802
This fluid is no longer listed on their site and you can't link to the PDS from their site. So what's up? They've changed the recommended specs for M1 ATF and the Multi-Vehicle ATF, and they don't appear to have a Chrysler fluid product anymore.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_ATF_4.aspx
found on this tread:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966802
This fluid is no longer listed on their site and you can't link to the PDS from their site. So what's up? They've changed the recommended specs for M1 ATF and the Multi-Vehicle ATF, and they don't appear to have a Chrysler fluid product anymore.
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so basically you are paying premium dollars for a basic fluid!?! no way.
Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
"The specifications of Chrysler transmissions have evolved in such a way that Mobil 1 Automatic Transmission Fluid no longer meets them."
So ExMo is saying that although their fluid used to be appropriate for a '94 Chrysler LeBaron that specs ATF+3, because Chrysler's transmissions have evolved, it no longer is?
What kind of mumbo-jumbo is that?!
Before Chrysler actually issued a service fill license for ATF+4, lot's of makers sold fluids that they claimed met the performance requirements of ATF+4, Once Chrysler issued the license and its parameters not only included performance specs, but chemical specs as well, reputable makers had to drop the ATF+4 from their multi-vehicle ATFs and produce "real" ATF+4 according to the license.
I suspect since XOM was one of the largest OEM suppliers of Mopar branded ATF+4 that Chrysler told them they either had to drop ATF+4 from their multi-vehicle ATFs and sell a licensed ATF+4 or risk losing their OEM supply contract.
"The specifications of Chrysler transmissions have evolved in such a way that Mobil 1 Automatic Transmission Fluid no longer meets them."
So ExMo is saying that although their fluid used to be appropriate for a '94 Chrysler LeBaron that specs ATF+3, because Chrysler's transmissions have evolved, it no longer is?
What kind of mumbo-jumbo is that?!
Before Chrysler actually issued a service fill license for ATF+4, lot's of makers sold fluids that they claimed met the performance requirements of ATF+4, Once Chrysler issued the license and its parameters not only included performance specs, but chemical specs as well, reputable makers had to drop the ATF+4 from their multi-vehicle ATFs and produce "real" ATF+4 according to the license.
I suspect since XOM was one of the largest OEM suppliers of Mopar branded ATF+4 that Chrysler told them they either had to drop ATF+4 from their multi-vehicle ATFs and sell a licensed ATF+4 or risk losing their OEM supply contract.
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