New test Amsoil oil 5W-40 CJ-4 - Failure leaders

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Originally Posted By: Hitzy
It's a shear test, nothing more, not a wear test, not a "which protects better test", says one thing only about the oils tested. No TBN listed, no additive breakdown, just shear stability in adverse conditions.
All oils passed and stayed in grade running double the API requirement. They all basically stayed in grade with 2% fuel dilution which is great, and one might reasonably see that in the real world. 4% seems excessive to me, but I don't own backhoe's and bulldozers.
At the end of the day, Amsoil is nearly double the cost of the other oils, and this test is not much of a selling point unless you need an oil that can stay in grade with dilution.
So the expensive $$$$ engines aren't prematurely wearing out because you aren't running Amsoil? Hard to believe.
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You will feel better spending twice as much for the oils trust me !!
 
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though it would be great if the company testing the stuff wasn't being paid by Amsoil.


And you would pay for the testing?
 
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Originally Posted By: Hitzy
It's a shear test, nothing more, not a wear test, not a "which protects better test", says one thing only about the oils tested. No TBN listed, no additive breakdown, just shear stability in adverse conditions.
All oils passed and stayed in grade running double the API requirement. They all basically stayed in grade with 2% fuel dilution which is great, and one might reasonably see that in the real world. 4% seems excessive to me, but I don't own backhoe's and bulldozers.
At the end of the day, Amsoil is nearly double the cost of the other oils, and this test is not much of a selling point unless you need an oil that can stay in grade with dilution.
So the expensive $$$$ engines aren't prematurely wearing out because you aren't running Amsoil? Hard to believe.
27.gif
You will feel better spending twice as much for the oils trust me !!


The basic conventional CH4, CI4, CI4+, CJ4 oils like Delo, Delvac and Rotella go well over a million miles on 30,000 mile changes without a bypass filter. What else do you need?
 
Bro. Steve,
I can see your point to some extent. We need to start conserving where we can. In the real world not all used oil is captured. The 3000 mile service interval is purely marketing to sale more oil. The extended drain intervals would be a start.
Remember; " It was not rainning when Noah built the Ark.
 
"If everyone would get on board with the extended drain intervals we could reduce our dependence on imported oil and reduce our waste stream."

Our oil is recycled and reused somewhere (like ship fuel), therefore it could be argued that the more oil we use for our engines, the more recyclable oil available for other uses.

I think the main advantage to extended oil drains are for those that changing oil every 3000 or 6000 miles is not an efficient choice. Examples: fleets, buses, taxis, trucking, commercial)
 
Originally Posted By: BigBird57
Bro. Steve,
I can see your point to some extent. We need to start conserving where we can. In the real world not all used oil is captured. The 3000 mile service interval is purely marketing to sale more oil. The extended drain intervals would be a start.
Remember; " It was not rainning when Noah built the Ark.
Who is the we in the we need conserve?
 
I have no doubt that the Amsoil product gave good results in testing. I can only determine the results based on my experience with this same product in my 2006 Cummins ISX 15L. I used it for several months. I was getting high iron and lead readings from its use, even after 3 separate oil changes and running a bypass filter. I could not get beyond 25,000 miles without the lab putting wear numbers into the abnormal category. This was rather unnerving when one has a $25,000+ engine on the line.

I then took a chance with a 40% synthetic blend from a local supplier under their label. The wear numbers dropped almost immediately with the next sample and have stayed approximately 1/4 the wear numbers given by the Amsoil product in the same 25,000 miles time frame. With similar TBN retention and almost the same change in viscosity. Wear numbers have not ever reached or come close to the abnormal category again.

Does this say that the Amsoil product is trash? No. I am sure each engine reacts differently to what is put in it. Just like some brands of .22 ammunition give good results in one firearm and not in another.

After this experience and others with other equipment, I am not convinced that there is that one great oil that beats all the others. Marketing is slick and one can be swayed with technical talk and charts. But, in the end, how an oil performs out here in the real world is all that matters.

I guess the point of all this, is that one should not be swayed by glossy print. Sometime we are all guilty of a brand loyalty and will become defensive about the choices we make, at the risk of being blinded to what is really going on. Some have a vested interest in a particular product and will do what they must to promote it.

What oil one chooses, just go in to it with eyes wide open. If it delivers, stick with it. If not, then don't be afraid to walk away.
 
Originally Posted By: snakyjake
"If everyone would get on board with the extended drain intervals we could reduce our dependence on imported oil and reduce our waste stream."


We will never get off of imported oil anyway. Oil is a global commodity. We import AND we export oil. The largest importer to the U.S. is Canada, followed by Mexico. I have no desire to diss the Canadians. I do concede that many change their oil far sooner than necessary in most cases. For instance, there are many in commercial trucking that will change their oil in CAT, Cummins, and Detroits at 10,000 to 15,000 miles, when even the cheapest oil out there will usually perform well to 20,000 - 25,000 miles or more. Even the OEM recommendation for most of these engines are in the 25,000 mile range with the newest DD16 recommendation from Detroit Diesel being 50,000 mile OCI.

Whether we still get imported oil is no concern to me. I only get concerned when we will hinder environmentally sound drilling on our own soil for known reserves we have here, thereby making us dependent on foreign sources. Many think that the pie is only one size and can only be cut up so many ways. I am not convinced of that.

You want to decrease importation of foreign oil? Then promote drilling in the U.S. And before you get off about the BP oil spill in the gulf, try and remember the Mexican off shore spill in '79 that affected 370 miles of Texas coastline, was not stopped for 10 months, and to this date the cause has not been determined. This spill hasn't come close. And when Texans wanted reimbursement for costs associated with the spill, the Mexicans claimed national sovereignty and refused to ante up. They still have never compensated any U.S. citizen or business. But all this is moot anyway if we would just drill on land in known reserves. The only reason there is peak oil as claimed by the government is because these same beaurocrats are blocking more and more land from drilling. Leave it to the professionals, not beaurocrats.

And, as was stated, we reuse the lion's share of waste oil, so importation of oil is non issue regarding motor oil anyway. Now fuel is another story.
 
please post up the wear metals of all the UOA you had.
A used oil analysis is confusing to understand the results initself.
Many results of an intil fill of a said oil can be screwed up with residual oil that could not be drained out, this will show up in a UOA.
This is why trending is important.
Your findings are inline with the engine being cleaned out.
you future analysis may show elevated metals again.
Also wear metal PPM are all based on 5000 mile DINO oil results and what seems high for DINO oil at a 5000 mile interval, Is not very high when the Oil has lets say 20,000 on the oil.
To make a comparison I had a UOA that had 40,000 miles on the sample, the iron ppm was 56ppm wich seems high but divide that milage of 40,000 by 5000 and the PPM evey 5000 miles is really only 8PPM

Javier
 
I would agree that a cleanout would occur. I gave two oil changes time for that. Then:

At 25,000 miles with the Amsoil on each of 3 oil changes, Iron averaged 77ppm. The lead averaged 49. For a total of around 75,000 miles.

After moving to the other oil, at 25,000 mile oci, the iron has averaged around 14 ppm and the lead has averaged around 8 ppm. For around 175,000 miles.

I would contend, however, that not all UOA's are based on 5000 mile intervals for comparison. This is why the engine is required on the lab sample. It is analyzed in comparison to the engines in that category. i.e. Cummins ISX engine family, which have a OEM recommended OCI of 25,000 miles.

The engine now has 575,000 miles on it.
 
Originally Posted By: Steve S
From my memory 500,000 miles in the early 60s was time for a major! Nowdays it is way higher.


Indeed! I took my last engine, a '96 Cummins N-14 to 1.4 million without tearing into it. It still ran good, didn't really use much oil (gallon per roughly 8000 to 10,000 miles depending on how hard she was worked) and still got over 7 mpg, which still today is darn good. Even original turbo. Still kick myself for ever getting rid of that motor. Knowing what I know now, I would have yanked the motor out, rebuilt it, and put it in a brand new rolling glider kit truck.

Treated right, the Cats, Detroits, Cummins big engines will easily waltz to over 1 million before needing opened up. Sure, there is an occasional one that gives problems no matter what you do.

It's sad that the same can't be said of auto and pickup engines. But then, not too many people would be willing to shell out the cash for an engine that costs as much as the vehicle itself. A remanufactured Cummins ISX goes for around $25K, not including the core charge if you don't already have an ISX to core in. Add another $8500.

I guess its got some merit.... you get what you pay for.
 
The " We" would be the motoring public. I am not an enviromentalist by any stretch. I am a conservationist. I like to save money where I can. The
extended drain interval is one way to do just this.
I like to hunt ,reload my own ammo, fish and drive my Duramax diesel. I do not change my oil. I service oil filters and top off as needed. I use the Amsoil bypass filtration system with the series 3000 5w-30 diesel oil. Well over 50k miles with no oil change and clean uoa reports.
There is no need to dump 12.5 qts of oil every 3k.
 
But, BigBird, some habits die hard! I can't remember the last time I did the 'ol 3000 mile oil change thing. That was many moons ago. My Jeep has been on 7000 mile oci's since I got it and my Cummins ISX has been on 25,000 mile oci's since I got it. Could probably go longer on each one of them. The UOA's on both always says oil still good. Have been giving serious consideration to extending the drains out longer on both vehicles.
 
We need to start conserving where we can.

We are NOT dependent on foriegn oil except by design and the fact that it is a global commodity.

I change my oil when I think it needs it with absolutely ZERO concern for conserving oil. A resource we have PLENTY of right here in the states.

I care more about PRESERVING my engine and drivetrain than CONSERVING a renewable resource.
 
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Yeah, I guess it really is a non issue in the broad scheme of things on how soon or later someone changes their oil. Most used oil is recycled anyway. I know that when I get a new drum of engine oil, the supplier hauls away my used oil to be recycled. It really is hard to imagine that we are really having a serious detrimental effect on the environment or being subjected to the whims of foreign governments regarding engine oil. Fuel is another story.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Yeah, I guess it really is a non issue in the broad scheme of things on how soon or later someone changes their oil. Most used oil is recycled anyway. I know that when I get a new drum of engine oil, the supplier hauls away my used oil to be recycled. It really is hard to imagine that we are really having a serious detrimental effect on the environment or being subjected to the whims of foreign governments regarding engine oil. Fuel is another story.
If the supply of used oil drys up, the users of such oils will have to turn to virgin oil. There is no cute feel good way out of it in the long run.
 
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