Inverse Oiler to Reduce Intake Sludge (DI/Turbo)?

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abs

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I have a 2010 Ford Ecoboost twin turbo direct injection engine in my Ford Flex. It is a great engine and lots of fun to drive. The issue is that Audi, Porsche, VW and others have massive issues with sludge forming in the intake manifold of their DI (both turbo and non-turbo) engine designs. Some of these engines have an OEM air/oil separator or catch can and the problem persists. The Ecoboost engine is new and not enough is known about it to say if there will be a similar issue of carbon build up on the intake valves and runner. However, Ford did include an OEM water/oil separator on the rear valve cover of the engine between the engine and the throttle body as part of the PCV system. Also BG is running a test on a Ford Taurus SHO with the same engine in the Flex and it appears that Ford is not exempt from the carbon issue (http://www.bgfueltest.com/?page_id=15). This is a major problem in many engines where the build up can occur within a few thousand miles and nobody seems to have the "cure".

Keep in mind, that with direct injection, fuel never flows over the intake valves the way it does in a traditional fuel injection setup. The injector sprays fuel directly into the cylinder in direct injection.

As I've been thinking about this issue, everyone is trying to eliminate the flow of residue into the intake manifold to prevent the onset of the carbon build up. Special engine oils are being developed, catch cans and water/oil separators are being deployed. What I'm wondering is if this is either the completely wrong approach or part of the solution although insufficient. Perhaps, it would it be more sensible to feed the intake manifold with a steady flow of solvents/lubricants to prevent the build-up from occurring in the first place and to dissolve any build up that may have already occurred?

I've read about inverse oilers like the one made by Amcolubes (http://www.ampcolubes.com/index.php?content=products), and was thinking I could splice one of these into my PCV system to meter in some combination of treatments. Could be MMO, Lucas Fuel System Cleaner, Techron, Sea Foam, water, gasoline, or something else . . .

My buddy tells me that adding any kind of oil to the intake or fuel on a DI turbo application is a bad idea since it will drop the octane and could risk damaging the engine (melting pistons, etc.)

So, what does everyone think of this idea? Anyone have experience doing something like this? Success/failures/concerns?

Thanks in advance,

Andrew
 
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Personally, I'd just hold the engine at 2500 rpm and blow about 1/3 can of good, strong carb cleaner such as B12 down the throttle body every oil change or 2 (before the change of course). That should clean the gunk right off the valves.

Lots of hard driving may reduce buildup as well, as it's harder for stuff to stick to the valves with more air flowing over them.
 
You still have valve overlap, simply having the valve open to whatever is in the CC, and oil from the valve guides, even if the PCV has a good catch can.
Those deposits are tough - strong spray cleaners are iffy , but might do some good on really bad deposits..
 
I have a inverse oiler. have it adjusted to use 1 qt in 900-1000 miles. it starts very fast. best $69 i ever spent
 
i run a dodge v6 about 230 ci, i put marvel mystery oil in the oiler. and i put mmo in the gas tank on every fill. iam putting ,a total, about 2 times as much as called for. to put mmo in the gas tank put 4 oz of mmo for 10 gal of gas. been doing it this way 3 decades no trouble.
 
Originally Posted By: morris
i run a dodge v6 about 230 ci, i put marvel mystery oil in the oiler. and i put mmo in the gas tank on every fill. iam putting ,a total, about 2 times as much as called for. to put mmo in the gas tank put 4 oz of mmo for 10 gal of gas. been doing it this way 3 decades no trouble.


Which Inverse Oiler are you using? I have the Marvel 2 qt oiler. I disconnected about a year ago, and plan on hooking it up again. How many drips/minute did you calibrate it for at idle speed when the engine is warmed up?

Thanks
 
With older carbureted vehicles, the gas/air mixture could help distribute any added oiling .
With 'dry' manifolding on FI cars, don't count on even distribution , unless you have oil injection points the same for each cylinder.
 
iam using the one from ampco, the one qt plastic body. ampcolubes.com it is a good one, only it doesnt drop oil in drops, it has a piece of metal with what looks like threads that oil flows over it. so i have to measure one qt in 800-1000 miles. once its set all you have to do is put oil in it. iam VERY happy with it. i still put mmo in the gas tank. the oiler you have is different than mine, adjust yours at idle to 6-8 drops per min. only use mmo. also check yours that the seal on the glass is not leaking. i have one of those. [email protected]
 
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Originally Posted By: mechtech2
With older carbureted vehicles, the gas/air mixture could help distribute any added oiling .
With 'dry' manifolding on FI cars, don't count on even distribution , unless you have oil injection points the same for each cylinder.


This is a good point. It is going to be spotty distribution at best, and it would be a HUGE warranty issue on a new car if there were any problems.
 
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
With older carbureted vehicles, the gas/air mixture could help distribute any added oiling .
With 'dry' manifolding on FI cars, don't count on even distribution , unless you have oil injection points the same for each cylinder.


I'm not so sure about this. The borescope images from BGfueltest.com of this engine (ecoboost) as well as the images I've seen of DI Audi/VW engines that were badly carboned up in the intake manifold and valves, seemed to have a pretty good distribution of carbon throughout the intake despite the fact that the source of carbon was from one of two point sources (EGR or PCV) . . . I would think that MMO added to the PCV system would likely distribute itself throughout the intake quite nicely.

Thoughts?
 
Adding the oil near the source of the soot should deposit the oil at the same places the soot is deposited.

Will the MMO be effective without the gasoline?
 
It would still help. The deposits will absorb some of the MMO, causing them to soften. This makes it easier for them to get sucked in during times of high air velocity, such as WOT when getting on the highway.
 
unless the solvent you are using completely volatilizes in the intake manifold it will not distribute evenly in a dry manifold design.

PCV only contributes vapors, thus they spread very evenly throughout the intake. Liquids will simply not.

I would also question the validity of 'shock' treatments as a larger chunk of carbon/crud could come off and...
 
Nothing wrong with an inverse oiler. I definitely recommend it.
Airflow should make it distribute well enough. Its not an instant clean and doesn't have to be. Its cleaning, just like the carbon buildup, occurs over time. Inverse oiler is the ticket here. And, you can dilute the MarvelOil with any FI cleaner, biodiesel, or alcohol too.

Water/alcohol injection is a better choice when using turbos.
 
my 2001 dodge v-6. would not idle, it died about 5 times before i got it to idle. it will be going into the shop on monday. i hope iam not putting to much mmo into the engine.
 
So, I think I may want to set this up. I know I can get the kit from Ampco Lubes, but I have an issue since the engine is turbo charged the intake manifold will alternate from pressurized to vacuum depending on throttle position and load due to the turbo action. So . . . I think I need a one way valve in the line from the Ampco unit to the intake to prevent the reservoir from pressurizing and potentially forcing the MMO out of the reservoir. Optimally, I would just use the PCV for this purpose, however, the PCV is mounted on the rear valve cover and the line I would "T" into feeds directly into the intake (so will experience the same pressure as the intake manifold itself). Can anyone suggest a ball valve or one-way valve I could use on the copper line from the Ampco kit to the PCV line/intake manifold to solve for this issue? My goal would be to allow the MMO to flow only when the engine has negative pressure (vacuum).

Thoughts?
 
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