zmax = engine damage?

[Johnny]

The mistake Ed made was posting the link where the product can actually be purchased, and yes, that is against the rules, but since enough of you complained in PM's Ed is now banned for spamming and that was not his intentions.

Since this is the case I should probably just be quite and let this die, but I'm just old enough and hard headed enough that it is not in my nature. Besides, I thought it might have been nice to try and had some intellectual conversations instead of just piling on.

So, here are the links to the tech/test he was trying to talk about. These are tech sheets, not sell sheets so I hope they will not be deleted. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but for those who want to read, here it is.

http://www.zmax.com/documents/zmax_the_facts1.pdf

http://www.zmax.com/documents/maurice_lepera_expert_analysis.pdf

http://www.zmax.com/documents/zmax_service_bulletin_carburetors.pdf

And, for those of you that might slightly want to know who Ed is, here you go.

http://www.hotrodhotline.com/feature/guestcolumnists/richardscorner/08edrachanski/

 

[Tempest]

Stinks that he got banned. I know I didn't report him. I wanted first hand answers to his claims.

 

[TurboJim]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Stinks that he got banned. I know I didn't report him. I wanted first hand answers to his claims.


Ditto

 

[jonny-b]

I also PM'ed a few moderators, asking why he got banned.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Stinks that he got banned. I know I didn't report him. I wanted first hand answers to his claims.


+1. I thought this a very rare opportunity to have discussion with someone in a position to provide info we would not otherwise be able to find readily (if at all on their product) and answer questions from forum members. According to his last post he was consulting with his in house engineering team to provide a fact sheet for us to answer questions that had already been raised.

IMHO when someone in the position he's in comes to the forum and provides his position and affiliation with the company (even though this wasn't disclosed immediately, it was as soon as it was indirectly asked), and seems to have the goal of providing us with info and answers to questions, it is a lost opportunity for all of us.

His posts aren't going to force anyone to buy the product; at best they can only inform so that more educated decisions can be made. As that seemed to be his intention, it is unfortunate that this rare opportunity is now gone.

-Spyder

 

[Sayjac]

For the record, and only since innuendo is being thrown around here, I didn't report anybody for anything. Think it's fairly weak to come here after the fact and blame unnamed members for whatever happened.

That said, after some research I can tell you that this isn't the only message board with a similar recent occurence. One can google zMax Marketers Settle for $1 Million and find at least one other very similar recent event.

The thing that I find curious is that when Miro and the synlube gang came to the board, he was treated worse, yet no protest. Now I don't care about about Miro, and never used synlube either. The point is though, just because some newbie was/is famous for something or other, does that entitle them to special treatment. Don't think racetek, as I'm not on a first name basis, was entitled to any different vetting than any other poster who comes to the board and solely posts on one topic, in this case zMax.

I can also recall a newbie female, that came to the board, and immediately started posting the benefits some additive products also from racing heritage. She was told in short order by more than one member, myself not included, it was against board rules to post such information unless you are paying sponsor.

As for the product, I couldn't less whether someone uses it or not. However as long as the claim "soaks into the metal" is used, and settled a case against the product for 1 mill, it will be subject to severe skepticism, rightfully so, IMO.

 

[LordAbbett]

There are some here who don't want discussion and whose personalties (at least what you tell in a internet forum) is guite thugish. Well spoken but still..

 

[Johnny]

No one was accusing you sayjac and member names were not given to me. I was just told several. The ones that did know who they are.

IMHO since Ed said right up front he was not trying to sell or tell folks where to buy, but wanted to talk about ASTM and SAE test about the product, he should have been afforded the opportunity. I'm sure old Miro would have gotten a lot further on here if he wanted to share actual recognized, approved test that had been performed.

Mistakes were made all the way around on his part and ours.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Okay guys. This thread is about Zmax and not why someone decided to break the rules (which all of us agree to when we sign up.. YOU DID READ THEM I hope?) and got himself banned.

Any comments (and I'm sure there will be) PM me.

Bill

 

[Mystic]

Well, there is some stuff I definitely do not believe in, like Zmaz, Motor Up or whatever it was called, and some of the other strange concoctions, some of whom I don't even remember the names. But I do believe that anybody should have the right to bring up any oil supplement they want to and discuss that supplement, as long as they don't break rules. I think the Synlube guys broke rules. And by the way I did not report anybody for anything.

I kind of believe in some stuff. I still have some faith in Lubegard products. A lot of people here have good luck with MMO. I think there might be some nonsolvent flushes that might be okay to use. Lubro-Moly has a lot of supporters here. I have never used it but a lot of people say that it works. And there are some other stuff I still believe in, like Sta-Bil and Bars Leaks and Regane fuel system cleaner. But a lot of this stuff or all of it would not be necessary unless a person had cetain problems.

Maybe the formulation for Zmax has changed since 2001 and perhaps it is now a good product. I don't know. But I am long past the days when I was willing to try something without a lot of proof.

 

[Vikas]

I don't know why (it is probably irrational) but I am willing put lot of additives in my gas than in my oil. I have not put anything but LubroMolys MOS in my oil. I have used lots and lots of fuel additives over the years. Some worked on some cars at some time.

Some part of my brain tells me that fuel additive burns off but the oil additive sticks around. "Wrong" oil additive may lead to more problem whereas "wrong" fuel additive is mostly harmless.

That might not be strictly correct but subconsciously I believe that.

- Vikas

 

[Mystic]

I am also kind of more willing to put stuff in my gasoline rather than my oil. I have gotten pretty good results using Regane in my fuel. I tried to find the LubroMoly at the local NAPA Store (a lot of people here said they were able to find it at NAPA) but they did not have any. I think I would have been willing to give the LubroMoly a try. I am more willing to put MMO in the gasoline rather than the oil.

Just a short time ago I came across some information that GM might start requiring a new motor oil that has a lot of moly in it apparently. I don't know very much about all of this. I do like the idea of moly in motor oil in the proper chemical formulation. I think it would improve fuel mileage and reduce wear.

If there is sludge in an engine I think that some sort of products are required for that. I kind of like the idea of nonsolvent engine flushes like the Amsoil product.

 

[Spyder7]

I try and keep an open mind on additives, and weigh as much info as I can find against the theory of how it works. If I'm satisfied that the theory is sound, the ingredients (to the extent they are disclosed) fit the theory, and if I have a use for the product and am confident that I at least won't be worse off for having tried it, I go ahead and use it.

My additive list is a short one, and to scientifically prove they do what I think they can theoretically, is impossible. Yet I have seen benefits from their use - mainly subjective - and they show promise in more measurable results (reduction in oil consumption without using HDEO, HM, or thicker oil); though because a generous span of time is allotted for this result to be achieved, and a mix of additives are being used to treat the problem (and not the symptom), I won't be able to say if there was one in particular that produced the result. Best I will be able to do is give my peak oil consumption, list the additives used and the theory behind each, and what results were achieved over the span of time involved.

-Spyder

 

[demarpaint]

I share similar views with a few guys here. I try and keep an open mind, although at times I might jump to a conclusion if an oil or additive is making claims that go against basic scientific principals, or a product is too aggressively pushed here by someone with a clear agenda.

We might have cut Ed off a little too soon, perhaps a warning would have been good. I'm not a mod, or the site owner, but the rules are the rules.

Back on topic, I like to experiment, especially with my beater. If I can find an oil or an additive that does something that I feel a need for I'd like to try it out. The only way it will find its way into my oil pan is after I've read up on it, found others had positive results, and that it passes the "shill test". I've made a mistake or two here, but in doing so I've compiled a list of additives that have value, IN MY OPINION.

The oil companies blend oil with profits in mind, not the end users best interest. An oil can't do everything, so from time to time some tweaking might be needed. My 2 cents!

 

[Mystic]

I try to keep an open mind on oil supplements also demarpaint. But I have been disappointed with various stuff over the years and I like to see a lot of proof. I started using Auto-RX after it seemed to stop a small seal leak in a car I used to own. But later a lot of stuff happened here and I became very disillusioned.

Many years ago I started using Tufoil after I discovered that Popular Mechanics Magazine actually had tested the stuff and it seemed to work for them. I figured I could trust Popular Mechanics Magazine. It seemed to work in a used Toyota Corolla station wagon that I owned for a few years. But looking back on that I think 20W50 oil (in the summertime) would have worked just as well for that car. It ran good but at startup the engine clattered a little bit. That Tufoil stuff was some thick stuff!

 

[demarpaint]

Mystic I know you have an open mind, we exchanged quite a few enjoyable PM's.

I do a lot of homework before actually buying an additive, or anything car related that makes claims to do something better or improve something. No point in me mentioning my favorite additive in this thread.

My short list of adds has grown over the past few years as a result of this board. I've gotten burnt too, live and learn. The only reason I got burnt was because I went against my gut and better judgment. Truth is if you have an interest in a product do your homework, and if you are certain you can benefit from a product give it a try. If it works let people know, if it doesn't let people know. Then based on what they read here they can decide for themselves to buy, and hopefully report back. Know I tend to stay clear of products promoted by their owners or company agents, and salesmen. But if there is enough positive feedback, and I'm not going against my gut I consider giving it a try, if it is something I need at the time. Having said that not all sales reps are bad, its just when something is over pushed or hyped there is usually a reason. Many good products sell themselves on referrals, those tend to be the better products. JMO

 

[Spyder7]

The packaging turned me off. Reading the in-house testing done and the independent verification has changed my mind. I took its flashy packaging as snake oil marketing, but its undergone more extensive testing and independent verification than any additive I'm currently using.

It shows promise, and is easily attained locally for a reasonable price. I will wait until this OCI is finished, then do an OCI with just zMAX and no other oil additives so as to try and judge the results as objectively as I can. LM mos2 can be added on alternate oil changes and retain its efficacy, while MMO is a nice additive for mild winter cleaning and easier cold starts, so they will both keep for that OCI.

If something shows promise I don't mind bucking current fashion trends and giving it a shot, especially when the price is reasonable and the product has been thoroughly tested and its results independently verified. I will set the gimmicky box aside, and chalk that up to a marketing department with too much time on their hands.

-Spyder

 

[Mystic]

Yeah, I really liked our discussions about various things demarpaint. By the way, I will probably try MMO this winter. If it thins the oil it will not matter in the wintertime. I do like MMO occasionally in the gas for my car and in the gas for my lawnmower. I will let you know what I think about MMO after I give it a try in the oil.

 

[demarpaint]

Sounds good! CO gets pretty cold I heard. Let me know how things work out for you.

 

[Mystic]

It depends on where you live in Colorado. In southeastern Colorado it usually does not get too cold. Other parts of Colorado get a lot colder. The coldest I have ever seen is 28 below zero. But that is rare. A woman who cut my hair yesterday moved from Alaska to Colorado. She said that she experienced 40 below zero in Alaska waiting for a bus. She said that she had lived in Valdez (I think it is called) Alaska.

Some people here have worried about MMO thinning out the oil too much. But I figure it will not matter too much in the wintertime.

I have been using Pennzoil Ultra. There are some people saying that Walmart may stop carrying it. I am thinking about just going back to Pennzoil conventional. It is still supposed to keep the engine clean and I like to change the oil often anyway. A 5 quart container of the Pennzoil conventional is only about $12.00 or so at Walmart.

I still have a 5 quart bottle of Mobil 1 HM 5W30. I ran the Pennzoil Ultra for quite a while and it got cool and I think the Mobil 1 HM is a thicker oil. So I will save it for next summer.