Buick 4T65E hard shift *LONG*

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Originally Posted By: lght1
Hi

Good to hear that its shifting better although I would still scan the pcm for codes.

A tech II or the higher Snap On models can do this as well as the Aeroforce scan tool.

You're right, I should go get it scanned and I will. I've just been too lazy about that lately and keep putting it off.
 
Hi,

I have exactly the same problem on by Buick Century 2002: hard shifting after 20-30min driving in heavy city traffic.

Just called the transmission shop, asked about shift kit installation. The guy on the phone told me that they'll have to pull the tranny out of vehicle (i.e. they cannot do it by just dropping the pan), so it's gonna be expensive.
Also, he said that he doesn't recommend to install the shift kit on this tranny. And that the real root cause is likely the 2nd gear clutch being worn out, so they'll need to replace it (along with the PCS)... so we are looking at the total cost of $1500+.

Is it true? Or they just trying to make more money?
 
The complete shift kit would require you removing the transmission, or at least more than just dropping the pan. The complete kit fixes other problems besides just the shifting problem. In order to just address the shifting problem, you only have to drop the pan and remove the 1-2 and 2-3 accumulator that is right in front of you after you drop the pan. Very easy to do. Like I have said and others have said before, it might not fix the problem, but it has, knock on wood, worked for me since I have put in the shift kit. It has never given me any problems ever since I have put it in.
 
Oh ya, I'd like to add that I also went to a transmission shop prior to doing this shift kit as a last ditch effort. They told me they have never heard of this problem before. I would like to believe that if you work on transmissions for a living you would have heard of this problem before, since just about all of these 4T65Es do this after a certain amount of time. He acted like he never heard of this before and just gave me a quote for an entire transmission rebuild.
 
Originally Posted By: Ryan
The complete shift kit would require you removing the transmission, or at least more than just dropping the pan. The complete kit fixes other problems besides just the shifting problem. In order to just address the shifting problem, you only have to drop the pan and remove the 1-2 and 2-3 accumulator that is right in front of you after you drop the pan. Very easy to do. Like I have said and others have said before, it might not fix the problem, but it has, knock on wood, worked for me since I have put in the shift kit. It has never given me any problems ever since I have put it in.

Thanks!
I think I understand the basic idea. Remove the accumulator, open it, and install another springs (and/or even additional spacers under the springs, whatever the kit includes). This should be enough to make shifts somewhat faster and eliminate the "max adapt" situation. Correct?

The problem is, that I would rather let somebody else to do this job... One reason is this somebody else would have more experience with transmissions, and the other reason - I happen to live in the apartment building, and it's not really allowed to do the messy repair job in the underground parking lot.

So I guess I need to find some good local mechanic who would be able to understand what is needed and do exactly this...
 
The entire kit doesn't have to be installed. Only the accumulator part. It's a fairly simple job that a mechanic could do by following the instructions included with the kit. It would likely be another hour of labor in addition to the fee for dropping/replacing the transmission pan and refilling with ATF.

If a then-college-aged guy with decent mechanical skills could do it by following directions off the Internet and a little bit of common sense, a trained mechanic could probably do it faster.
 
You should be able to find someone to do it. I found a webpage (can't find it now) that showed step by step pictures on how to do it.
 
Been busy lately so didn't notice the posts, but so far the kit has worked well. No slipppage and no hard shifts since I've installed it.

Originally Posted By: Ryan
You should be able to find someone to do it. I found a webpage (can't find it now) that showed step by step pictures on how to do it.

I'm not sure if links are allowed to be posted here, but I did quite a bit of research on the net before I installed mine and if you search for combinations of 4t65e, hard, shift, and transgo, you'll find lots of hits. The ones I found supportive of the kit decision were Transgo's web site specifically stating their kit is for this problem, and a guy named Dave in Indiana owns a transmission shop that has some good info on his web site. Other companies make kits as well, but most seemed to lean toward the Transgo kit possibly because the others were more of a performance shift kit. Not sure, but dig around and you'll see. You'll also find good info plus write-ups with pics on a Grand Prix forum, and ls1 forum, a W-Body forum, and a Bonneville forum.

If you do decide to do it, print out some of the step-by-step instructions with the pictures and have them on hand when you do the work. Honestly it's really not difficult if you can turn a wrench at all, and can maybe borrow a friend's or family member's garage or driveway.


A few things to watch for if you're inexperienced, because while the kit has some documentation, it doesn't give any instruction on how to do the job.

Loosen the pan bolts in a manner that won't dump eight quarts of fluid on your face. You want the pan to slowly drop on one side only, not all at once.

The filter needs some tugging to get it out. I used a screwdriver to pry it down, but be careful. Also the filter seal is basically a piece of flanged aluminum tubing with an internal o-ring or some such. I have no idea how to remove it without mangling it with a screwdriver and hammer, but that's what I read about how to remove it, so as long as you're careful, don't worry about destroying it.

The pics you'll find are useful to know which four bolts to remove that will allow the accumulator to be removed. The tubes at first seem like a pita, but they are a slip-fit and allow for movement and wiggling, especially when reinstalling the accumulator. Do not tighten the bolts down if they are cocked to one side because the tubes are not allowing the accumulator to seat properly. You'll end up stripping the threads in the soft aluminum casting, so take your time and make sure everything is lined up properly.

Another thing to watch for is the bimetal spring. If you wipe things down along the pan gasket sealing surface, you may end up snagging it. Ask me how I know this.
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Also, don't tighten the pan down too tight or you'll end up with leaks. I think the torque value is something like 10 inch pounds, but it's easy to think it needs to be more. I didn't use a torque wrench since I only have one that's for foot pounds, but it's not too hard to make sure they're snug but not too tight.

Phew, I ended up writing way more than I intended, but I hope it helps. Good luck.
 
I did the kit back in March maybe? Knock on wood it hasn't done it since. It has made it through the hot summer and a round trip to Canada from North Carolina going up the mountain. I'm hoping this never acts up again so I can just own the car for a few more years.
 
Originally Posted By: Ryan
The complete shift kit would require you removing the transmission, or at least more than just dropping the pan. The complete kit fixes other problems besides just the shifting problem. In order to just address the shifting problem, you only have to drop the pan and remove the 1-2 and 2-3 accumulator that is right in front of you after you drop the pan. Very easy to do. Like I have said and others have said before, it might not fix the problem, but it has, knock on wood, worked for me since I have put in the shift kit. It has never given me any problems ever since I have put it in.

Update.
Finally, I had the transmission shop install the "accumulator part" of the TransGo kit. They also replaced the accumulator pistons (due to noticeable wear, they said).
So far, I'm very pleased with the results. The "max adapt" problem seems to be gone (knocking on the wood).
The shifts became quicker and firmer, and somewhat more noticeable than before. I like the new feel!
 
Originally Posted By: akela
Originally Posted By: Ryan
The complete shift kit would require you removing the transmission, or at least more than just dropping the pan. The complete kit fixes other problems besides just the shifting problem. In order to just address the shifting problem, you only have to drop the pan and remove the 1-2 and 2-3 accumulator that is right in front of you after you drop the pan. Very easy to do. Like I have said and others have said before, it might not fix the problem, but it has, knock on wood, worked for me since I have put in the shift kit. It has never given me any problems ever since I have put it in.

Update.
Finally, I had the transmission shop install the "accumulator part" of the TransGo kit. They also replaced the accumulator pistons (due to noticeable wear, they said).
So far, I'm very pleased with the results. The "max adapt" problem seems to be gone (knocking on the wood).
The shifts became quicker and firmer, and somewhat more noticeable than before. I like the new feel!


You shouldn't have anymore problems! Mine did it all the time when it got hot. It has been getting pretty hot here and still hasn't done it knock on wood!
 
I ended up having a shop put in a new pressure control solenoid even after installing a TransGo shift kit. The TransGo bought me 36k miles of trouble-free shifting. I had 14k miles on a homemade shift kit before installing the TransGo, or 50k miles running some kind of shift kit with a flaked-out PCS. The car has 102k miles on it now.

The new PCS made a nice little difference. The car goes like a scalded cat when the gas is mashed from a stop. (Disclaimer: I had to do it once to see if it cured the problem) Before it used to shake hard, and not go.

Cost to do it was $500, including a 4 wheel alignment and renting a car for the day. Worth it IMO since the car is in good mechanical shape.
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
I had 14k miles on a homemade shift kit before installing the TransGo, or 50k miles running some kind of shift kit with a flaked-out PCS.

Even in your case, this still looks like a good deal. Buying yourself 2-5 years of time for such a cheap price.
 
Originally Posted By: akela
Originally Posted By: sciphi
I had 14k miles on a homemade shift kit before installing the TransGo, or 50k miles running some kind of shift kit with a flaked-out PCS.

Even in your case, this still looks like a good deal. Buying yourself 2-5 years of time for such a cheap price.


It was a very good deal at the time. I'd do it over again if need be. $65 for the kit, and some more for 14 quarts of ATF to flush the transmission after installation.

It was a good stopgap that on a higher-mileage car than mine could well see that car into the junkyard, or at least to a transmission rebuild for other issues.
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
It was a good stopgap that on a higher-mileage car than mine could well see that car into the junkyard, or at least to a transmission rebuild for other issues.

BTW, what was wrong with home-made shift kit? Why would you need to replace it with TransGo?
 
Wish I knew about this stop-gap kit/trick before having my Sister rebuild her 05 Impala's tranny to the tune of $2800. It had the shift solenoid issue and the tranny was going( so they tell us - shifted fine until that solenoid issue started when it got above a certain temp )BUT it had 118K and she only needs to keep it a year. I would have tried the kit 1st.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Wish I knew about this stop-gap kit/trick before having my Sister rebuild her 05 Impala's tranny to the tune of $2800. It had the shift solenoid issue and the tranny was going( so they tell us - shifted fine until that solenoid issue started when it got above a certain temp )BUT it had 118K and she only needs to keep it a year. I would have tried the kit 1st.


Funny you say that... Before I researched and found out about the shift kit for these transmissions, I had a transmission shop tell me it needed to be rebuilt. You would think that someone who rebuilds transmissions for a living would be aware of the PCS problems in this car. After doing research and finding out about the PCS and how putting a shift kit should solve that problem, I did that and haven't had problems since. I would say the shift kit is probably a band aid fix for the real problem, but there is no telling when my car will die so I'm not going to dump a bunch of money into it if a $65 shift kit solves the problem.
 
Originally Posted By: akela
Originally Posted By: sciphi
It was a good stopgap that on a higher-mileage car than mine could well see that car into the junkyard, or at least to a transmission rebuild for other issues.

BTW, what was wrong with home-made shift kit? Why would you need to replace it with TransGo?


The TransGo came with new springs that were stiffer than OEM. This turns up the line pressure manually so the PCS doesn't work as hard keeping line pressures up. It also shortens the shift times. The car's PCM doesn't see the shift times getting too long, so it doesn't command the P1811 Max Adapt code that makes the transmission shift harshly. The homebrew kit shortened the shift times, but did very little for line pressure. So the homebrew kit addresses the P1811, but not the other symptom of low line pressure. The TransGo does address both.

Transmission shops make 3-4x as much on a rebuild as a PCS replacement, so it's a no-brainer that they'd call for a rebuild. All the slamming into gear also wears out other things quickly, so sometimes the transmission genuinely does need a rebuild.
 
Originally Posted By: Ryan
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Wish I knew about this stop-gap kit/trick before having my Sister rebuild her 05 Impala's tranny to the tune of $2800. It had the shift solenoid issue and the tranny was going( so they tell us - shifted fine until that solenoid issue started when it got above a certain temp )BUT it had 118K and she only needs to keep it a year. I would have tried the kit 1st.


Funny you say that... Before I researched and found out about the shift kit for these transmissions, I had a transmission shop tell me it needed to be rebuilt. You would think that someone who rebuilds transmissions for a living would be aware of the PCS problems in this car. After doing research and finding out about the PCS and how putting a shift kit should solve that problem, I did that and haven't had problems since. I would say the shift kit is probably a band aid fix for the real problem, but there is no telling when my car will die so I'm not going to dump a bunch of money into it if a $65 shift kit solves the problem.


Any shop worth half a darn should know about the solenoid issue. It is just way too common not to know about it if that shop does a lot of tranny work. Millions of GM's with that tranny. The shift kit bypass fix is something different though. Even if they knew about it they probably would not want to do it as it is only a temp fix and they may worry about the tranny failing shortly after doing it and being blammed for it.

I would say a general repair shop would do that bypass trick as many of them are all about helping the customer get by as cheap as possible and they are much more willing to do temp fixes. However, a dealer or tranny specific shop would probably shy away from it. Any shop that works on tranny's even a little definitely should know about the solenoid issue though. However, most shops would much rather get $2500+ for a rebuild vs $1000+/- to replace the solenoid so most will probably recommend a rebuild wether it needs it or not.

I actually had AAMCO do my Sister's tranny and they knew about the solenoid issue. They said her tranny was toast above and beyond that issue however so we had it rebuilt. I have to admit I wonder though if that is true? The list of items they claimed were toast should have caused constant tranny issues.

When the temps were cold this past winter the car shifted just fine. The only time the solenoid slam shift issue showed up was when temps rose into the 40's or we got into heavy traffic which heated the fluid, let it thin and sip by the seal to short the solenoid, and cause the fault code to trip so the computer maxed line pressure out. So I say why would it work so well when the temp was kept lower? If it was as bad as they said it should have shifted bad all the time. It shifted just fine until the tranny got above a certain temp. Once it cooled down it shifted fine again. You could drive for hours on end without the problem as well if it was kept in the normal temp range.

I would have at least tried the kit/fix before just to see. If it was a vehicle with less than say 75K you rebuild for sure but her car has 118K+ and she will only keep it for another year - year and a half. Worst case is the tranny blew and we had to rebuild anwyay.

Again, wish I had found out about that trick before doing the rebuild.
 
An old thread with some good information. I seem to be having this problem with my 2000 Century. Its a job I'd rather not tackle myself, hopefully one of the shops I know is familiar with the repair or I'll be forced into doing it myself.
 
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