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#1982993 - 08/11/10 02:24 PM Re: Schaeffer's S-9000 5 W 40 MBenz 3.0 diesel engine [Re: BobFout]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Many posts are meaningless because it is based on a single data point. Whereas manufacturer recommendation are based on thousands and thousands and thousands of data points and so on and so on. 1 out of 3 new cars sold in Europe is a diesel. In France, almost 2/3 of the new car sold are diesels. Europe knows diesel oil

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#1983741 - 08/12/10 06:48 AM Re: Schaeffer's S-9000 5 W 40 MBenz 3.0 diesel engine [Re: BobFout]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4099
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Originally Posted By: BobFout
There has to be *some* reason why the Euro oils have a much lower ash content.
It's to protect the DPF aftertreatment in the exhaust-unfortunately, the TBN takes a BIG hit in the process. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how a "CF" rated 229.51 oil can outlast a CJ-4 rated US HDEO.
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4 48RE SRW, 93 GMC C3500 6.2 diesel, 89 F-450 7.3 IDI, 98 Cherokee 4.0, 05 Scion xB, 82 Mercedes 300D, company van 12 Ford E-250 4.6

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#1983750 - 08/12/10 06:54 AM Re: Schaeffer's S-9000 5 W 40 MBenz 3.0 diesel engine [Re: bullwinkle]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4099
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
And-this is also why I'm a little leery of smaller specialty oil producers (even though they are sponsors of this forum)-occasionally there are claims of certain oils meeting certain specs-that are just plain WRONG! (flame suit on) hide
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4 48RE SRW, 93 GMC C3500 6.2 diesel, 89 F-450 7.3 IDI, 98 Cherokee 4.0, 05 Scion xB, 82 Mercedes 300D, company van 12 Ford E-250 4.6

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#1983863 - 08/12/10 08:57 AM Re: Schaeffer's S-9000 5 W 40 MBenz 3.0 diesel engine [Re: bullwinkle]
m37charlie Offline


Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1134
Loc: Alaska
Good points in both posts, Bullwinkle.
Which is why I'm going to try
http://www.mobil.com/Italy-English/Lubes/PDS/glxxencvlmomobil_delvac_1_le_5w-30.pdf
in our BMW X5 35d. In the prescribed (by vehicle computer) OCI of 11600mi. the TBN in the prescribed Castrol SLX Professional OE 5W30 went down to 1.5 and the TAN shot up to 4.83. Of course a starting TBN of 6.4-6.8 isn't much. The Delvac has a TBN of 12.6, more than a CJ4, only slightly too much ash (1.0%) and the proper P content (<800ppm), being an E6 oil.
I don't think a 229.51/C3 can outlast a CJ4/E9 or 228.51/E6 oil - the contrary is true.

Charlie
_________________________
05 Unimog U500/Unicat camper/Delvac 1 SHC ACEA E4/E5
09 BMW X5 35d/Delvac1 LE 5W30
01 BMW 325xi M1 0W40
52 Dodge M37/Hercules diesel
79 BJ40 Landcruiser

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#2003934 - 08/31/10 09:30 PM Re: Schaeffer's S-9000 5 W 40 MBenz 3.0 diesel engine [Re: BobFout]
badnews Offline


Registered: 07/31/03
Posts: 848
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: BobFout
There has to be *some* reason why the Euro oils have a much lower ash content.


A number of reasons they call for it
1 - they were taken to court in the USA because they never said use synthetic oils---- low SA oil is syn oil by its nature and construct

2- 229.52 calls for HTHS for extended oil change reasons as high as 20,000 miles

3- if you run an oil with 1.5 or higher SA it will be a problem with the rings and DPF lower saps 1.0 or lower are not a problem... people here can scream and yell but they always fail to shown how it would harm a engine or DPF


Schaeffer's states their oil does not contain more than 1.0 -- less is more of a fact .

4- They are trying to comply with ACEA C3 which states .08 is the max SA allowed -- not so much because it will help the engine but because it is a GREEN thing in Europe . Engines will be fine with mid saps oils 1.0 max but they aren't considered green .

The new 2010 Sprinter engines do not have a DPF and they still say use 229.51 rated oil , reason being the spec is more about HTHS and extended oil change interval -- not clogged DPF or EGR .

Like I said in a previous post for some around here

Sulfated Ash is the new boogyman word that is tossed about as an excuse for them to not learn about oils and why they are spec'e the way the are and why companies stated to used them.

Like Mobil Emission Service Protection a huge con to get you to buy the oil at dealerships only no where else could you buy it then they did this when it just came out to rake you over the coals and get your hard earned cash and for Mobil to get top dollar for their product . That is a new low for Mobil but not the last I'd wager,


Others run their mouth --- I am running Schaeffer's S9000 in a 100,000.00 vehicle , I would not do that if it was hurting my van


Edited by badnews (08/31/10 09:33 PM)
_________________________
The thin oil is better thoughts often expressed here are not doing your engine any favors

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#2005242 - 09/02/10 04:28 AM Re: Schaeffer's S-9000 5 W 40 MBenz 3.0 diesel engine [Re: badnews]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: badnews

3- if you run an oil with 1.5 or higher SA it will be a problem with the rings and DPF lower saps 1.0 or lower are not a problem... people here can scream and yell but they always fail to shown how it would harm a engine or DPF


Mercedes does not recommend it and that is good enough for me because they have test data to backup their reputation. All you got is some anecdotal UOAs. It does not hurt your engine literally, it will kill the DPF over time. When the DPF is dying the engine performance will decrease and more emission. Replace the DPF and the engine will be good again.

Quote:

4- Engines will be fine with mid saps oils 1.0 max but they aren't considered green .

The engine will be fine but your DPF and your engine performance will be less than expected. They are not considered green because you are emitting more metal particles into the air.

Quote:

The new 2010 Sprinter engines do not have a DPF and they still say use 229.51 rated oil , reason being the spec is more about HTHS and extended oil change interval -- not clogged DPF or EGR .


Said who they don't have a DPF? The DPF is still there but instead of burning off the particulates with diesel fuel they are mixing it with a water-based additive DEF. Once again, I will take Mercedes specs over your uninformed opinion any day of the week.

http://www.sprintervans.com/02_About/2010_Freightliner_Sprinter_Brochure.pdf
http://www.ourexcellentadventures.com/wp-content/documents/MercedesBenzSprinter2010.pdf

Quote:

Like Mobil Emission Service Protection a huge con to get you to buy the oil at dealerships only no where else could you buy it then they did this when it just came out to rake you over the coals and get your hard earned cash and for Mobil to get top dollar for their product . That is a new low for Mobil but not the last I'd wager,


How can Mobil rake you over the coals when it is the dealers that took your money? When was the last time you go to the dealers for any kind of oils because they were cheaper?

Quote:

Others run their mouth --- I am running Schaeffer's S9000 in a 100,000.00 vehicle , I would not do that if it was hurting my van


The issue here is that you are killing your DPF slowly and emitting more emission by not using the recommended oil. There is no way that you can tell the health of your DPF in 10K miles or 30K miles for that matter.

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#2010571 - 09/07/10 10:01 PM Re: Schaeffer's S-9000 5 W 40 MBenz 3.0 diesel engine [Re: azsynthetic]
unDummy Offline


Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 8756
Loc: RI
http://www.dpfremoval.co.uk/
http://ecusafe.com/html/dpf___fap_removal.html

By the time it fails with the wrong oil, the owner will have the option of either replacing it, or bypassing it completely.

@*&# the dpf.

Great UOA. Stick with the Schaeffers.
_________________________
Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt the person doing it.
Your automaker lied!
Is this a spelling/grammar forum or BITOG?

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#2012835 - 09/10/10 01:21 AM Re: Schaeffer's S-9000 5 W 40 MBenz 3.0 diesel engine [Re: unDummy]
Mokanic Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 1563
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Originally Posted By: unDummy
http://www.dpfremoval.co.uk/
http://ecusafe.com/html/dpf___fap_removal.html

By the time it fails with the wrong oil, the owner will have the option of either replacing it, or bypassing it completely.

@*&# the dpf.

Great UOA. Stick with the Schaeffers.


That's what i'm talking about. I'd take the Schaeffers anyday.

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#2013083 - 09/10/10 09:37 AM Re: Schaeffer's S-9000 5 W 40 MBenz 3.0 diesel engine [Re: Mokanic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
If you look at the cost of a new DPF and the cost of running the correct oil, what are your saving? Now, if you were to use the car for off road only then getting rid of the DPF and running non 229.51 oil such as Mobil1 0W-40 would be my choice.

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#2013530 - 09/10/10 05:20 PM Re: Schaeffer's S-9000 5 W 40 MBenz 3.0 diesel engine [Re: azsynthetic]
Mokanic Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 1563
Loc: North Carolina, USA
You are assuming the dpf is going to fail running a CJ-4 oil. There's no evidence as of yet that it will even do harm to it.

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#2014787 - 09/12/10 08:29 AM Re: Schaeffer's S-9000 5 W 40 MBenz 3.0 diesel engine [Re: Mokanic]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4099
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
If it was my Sprinter, here in OH where the [expletive DELETED] E-Check was gone forever(?)-that fuel sucking PITA DPF would be the FIRST thing gone once I was out of engine warranty-then you could run any HDEO you wanted!
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4 48RE SRW, 93 GMC C3500 6.2 diesel, 89 F-450 7.3 IDI, 98 Cherokee 4.0, 05 Scion xB, 82 Mercedes 300D, company van 12 Ford E-250 4.6

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#2014843 - 09/12/10 10:18 AM Re: Schaeffer's S-9000 5 W 40 MBenz 3.0 diesel engine [Re: bullwinkle]
m37charlie Offline


Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1134
Loc: Alaska
Easier said, even with all the expletives, than done.
With all the electronics one needs a "patch" or convertor box to allow the truck to run properly with DPF and urea convertor gone.
There are DPF delete kits for pre 2011 Big 3 diesel pickups, but none so far AFAIK for 2011 Big 3 diesels, let alone Mercedes/BMW/VW imports.
If someone knows of a delete kit for a 2009 BMW X5 35d, let me know.

Charlie
_________________________
05 Unimog U500/Unicat camper/Delvac 1 SHC ACEA E4/E5
09 BMW X5 35d/Delvac1 LE 5W30
01 BMW 325xi M1 0W40
52 Dodge M37/Hercules diesel
79 BJ40 Landcruiser

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#2014878 - 09/12/10 11:19 AM Re: Schaeffer's S-9000 5 W 40 MBenz 3.0 diesel engine [Re: m37charlie]
salesrep Offline


Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 3339
Loc: lllinois
OT
How complicated is it to invent or "program" a convertor box for theses applications?
_________________________
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government."

Edward Abbey


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#2016064 - 09/13/10 03:38 PM Re: Schaeffer's S-9000 5 W 40 MBenz 3.0 diesel engine [Re: Mokanic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: Mokanic
You are assuming the dpf is going to fail running a CJ-4 oil. There's no evidence as of yet that it will even do harm to it.


I assume nothing. Most 228.31 oils were also CJ-4, 229.51 oils are not. In the 2007 models MB 228.31 oil was listed as OK for that engine, but for 2008 and up the 228.31 was NOT approved. I stand by Mercedes since they are the engine maker and the one I have to deal with for warranty purpose.

Even Mobil don't want to take a chance, I quote from their FAQ:

"Question: Can Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck be Used in Place of Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40? The owner's manual calls for Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40 oil, which is hard to find locally. I can readily find Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40, which says on the label that it is "recommended for virtually all diesel-powered equipment from U.S., European and Japanese equipment builders. . ." But, nowhere is Daimler Chrysler mentioned on the label. I compared the properties specs for both. There are some differences. Is the Turbo Diesel Truck oil of equal or better quality than the ESP Formula? If I use the Turbo Diesel and have a problem with the engine later, would Mercedes have a basis to claim that I used an inferior grade oil to that demanded in their MB 229.51 spec? Thanks.-- Marvin Vanhise, Lawrenceville, NJ

Answer: You should use the MB 229.51 recommended product."

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#2016157 - 09/13/10 05:01 PM Re: Schaeffer's S-9000 5 W 40 MBenz 3.0 diesel engine [Re: azsynthetic]
m37charlie Offline


Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1134
Loc: Alaska
NOTE in the following link:
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolistenmain.php?entercustomer=true&language_id=1
223.2, page 3
for MB diesels with DPF 228.51 is approved, 228.31 is NOT approved. The difference: 228.31 has higher sulfur and phosphorus, both 1.0% ash.

Charlie
_________________________
05 Unimog U500/Unicat camper/Delvac 1 SHC ACEA E4/E5
09 BMW X5 35d/Delvac1 LE 5W30
01 BMW 325xi M1 0W40
52 Dodge M37/Hercules diesel
79 BJ40 Landcruiser

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