Caliper Pin Lubes Metal -Metal and Rubber Metal

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I 'd like to get some input on matching the right lube with the caliper pin system. For metal to metal pins I was planning to use Permatex Silicone Moly Permatex Silicone Moly and for the rubber bushing to metal I was going use Permatex Synthetic. I am especially interested in how the Perm Synthetic works rubber to metal pins since I have heard of sticking problems with this type of pin if an incompatible lube is used. I have not found the Permatex Ceramic lube in my area. Permatex Ceramic

"99 Toyota Avalon has a rubber to metal system and I have heard some use OEM lube to prevent sticking. Anyone have experience with the Permatex Synthetic on Toyotas with this caliper pin.

My '87 Nissan Maxima recommends " Rubber Grease" on all the caliper pins even though only the rears are rubber bushing to metal and the front are metal to metal. Silicone grease is recommened on all other brake parts. I was planning to use the Silicone Moly on the fronts and Synthetic on the rears.
 
My sister's 98 avalon is using CRC synthetic brake lube on the rear. the front is using the bendix ceramalube. (I had to try it out..). No squealing, no binding, no complaints (thankfully!)
My next brake job I do will be using the Permatex Ceramic.. it's the purpleish colored stuff, smells like grape flavor.

The permatex green lubricant I"ve used before, I know it's synthetic, but the CRC seemed to last longer.
 
I use Permatex ceramic for brake pad backing lube only.

I use Sil-glyde for both metal-to-metal and/or metal-to-rubber caliper guide pin lubrication and been doing that for over 20+ yrs. There are still some of my serviced cars out on the road w/ original calipers (granted that it doesn't call for reman caliper due to corroded pistons or piston seal leaks) and works like a charm.

Q.
 
I used to use good HT wheel bearing grease for brake job parts.
But I have changed because I have seen sticking of rubber parts, and sometimes swelling.
Most caliper systems have both rubber and metal - You will never see one without seals on the pins.
The Syl-Glide is very good, or most others at the auto parts store that are dedicated brake lubes.
 
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
I used to use good HT wheel bearing grease for brake job parts.
But I have changed because I have seen sticking of rubber parts, and sometimes swelling.
Most caliper systems have both rubber and metal - You will never see one without seals on the pins.
The Syl-Glide is very good, or most others at the auto parts store that are dedicated brake lubes.


Well Yeah! the grease attacks the rubber. I know guys and garages that still use grease on the sliders. Oh No! I also know guys that use NeverSeize...Well, I don't know about that!

I use Permatex Silicone Brake Lube. Never an issue. But, 20 something years ago I didn't know this. I do now!
 
Quote:
I have heard of sticking problems with this type of pin if an incompatible lube is used.


It just shouldn't be this difficult to select successful brake lubes, but comments like yours keeps coming up. If you do a search, there was a discussion in the past few months about a particular brand of car brake rubber that was swelling with these common brake greases like CRC that advertise "safe for all rubber".

I have a front lower caliper pin design on my Caravan that has given me fits. I experimented with the Bendix Ceramlube and it seemed to dry up into a thick goo. I tried the green Permatex synthetic next and it did better, but still not perfect.

This last time I went back to the old faithful SilGlyde and I will see what happens. SilGlyde, in my opinion, only contains a tiny fraction of silicone and is based on mostly on castor oil (MSDS/personal correspondence with company). If this doesn't work, I think I will try a true silicone such as the Motorcraft product.

If you suspect your brake rubber has special needs, you are correct to research and find out what works. Sorry I can only relate my experience and not help you directly. Good luck.

EDIT: Here's the Toyota grease swelling thread:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1863200#Post1863200
 
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It definitely should be easier to find the proper brake lube. Not to get off topic, but it seems like the trend is for vehicle manufacturers to private labeling or specifying proprietary lubes of all types. The other part of this is there a lot of variables and anecdotal reports of caliper pin problems. But based on what I found it seems reasonable to assume there is an incompatibility lube problem on some brake systems and the rubber used in some systems.

I have done little more research and found the "rubber grease " spec'd for Nissan and some other Japanese vehicle manufactures is a NLGI No. 2 Lithuim Soap. The particular brand NIGLUBE is not readily available outside of some OEM brake rebuild kits or from the dealer. So a question would be is a high temp lithium grease NLGI No. 2, say from Sta-lube, acceptable?

What may happen with the other incompatible greases is the bushing swells and seizes the pin in metal-rubber systems or in the case of the metal-metal system, the rubber pin boot reacts with the lube and modifies the properties.
 
Plain old wheel bearing grease was perfectly compatible with seals for decades.
I did not see problems until several years.
I don't get it, but it caused me to change to the 'real ' stuff.
 
edge10,

Your statement ""rubber grease " spec'd for Nissan and some other Japanese vehicle manufactures is a NLGI No. 2 Lithuim Soap"
only tells you what the thickener is.

A lithium soap grease can have a petroleum or synthetic oil component to it. The old standby rule of thumb was to always keep petroleum oil products away from rubber brake components (in spite of mechtech2's successful prior use of it).

Here's an example of Mobil 1 synthetic grease that has a lithium soap thickener:

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENGRSMOMobil_1_Synthetic_Grease.aspx

My point, the Sta Lube lithium grease may or may not be compatible with brake rubber, depending on what the lubricating oil component is.
 
Wheel bearing petroleum grease I think is generally compatible with synthetic rubbers or plastics, after all most oil and grease seals are synthetic rubber/plastic. I guess it depends on the type of plastic because some caliper boots do seem to swell.
 
I too was using the Permatex Green Disk Brake Lube, GREEN Label but, the last time I went to the autoparts store the only Permatex Brake Lube there was the dark gray lube, RED Label..."Ultra Disk Brake Lube/High Temp Silicone" It seems OK too!
 
I found the in the '99 Camry factory manual specifies Lithium Soap Base Glycol Grease for the caliper pins. So, it sounds like glycol is the lubricant component and why silicone, petroleum, and certain synthetics may not be compatible with the rubber. Toyota uses both the metal-metal w/boot and a metal-rubber bushing on this caliper design.
 
There's quite a few google hits for lithium soap base glycol grease as well as for Toyota's OEM part number 08887-01206.
Here's one: http://scionlife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170558 Seems like it's still recommended in the newer manuals.

A number of people claim that the Toyota dealers didn't even use this stuff.

My Caravan factory service manual recommends some esoteric brake grease (from Germany, I think, silicone with teflon?), but the dealers laughed at me when I mentioned it.

This kind of stuff drives me nuts. Seems like the "real world" mechanics ignore it. But, the internet does seem to indicate a swelling problem in Toyota brake rubber, so you might be wise to seek it out instead of experimenting with other stuff.

FYI, the old time Sil-glyde msds also shows Polypropylene Glycol as the major ingredient (along with some castor oil and a bit of silicone).
 
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Originally Posted By: edge10
It definitely should be easier to find the proper brake lube. Not to get off topic, but it seems like the trend is for vehicle manufacturers to private labeling or specifying proprietary lubes of all types. The other part of this is there a lot of variables and anecdotal reports of caliper pin problems. But based on what I found it seems reasonable to assume there is an incompatibility lube problem on some brake systems and the rubber used in some systems.

I have done little more research and found the "rubber grease " spec'd for Nissan and some other Japanese vehicle manufactures is a NLGI No. 2 Lithuim Soap. The particular brand NIGLUBE is not readily available outside of some OEM brake rebuild kits or from the dealer.


Subaru recommends Niglube RX-2 for caliper pins. It is compatible with the rubber pin sleeves Subaru uses. I believe it can be had for about $17 for a 100g tube. Subaru pn 000041000.
 
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
…………..But, the internet does seem to indicate a swelling problem in Toyota brake rubber, so you might be wise to seek it out instead of experimenting with other stuff………..


Subaru forums also have reports of the guide pin rubber bushings swelling when aftermarket brake lubes are used. And once the rubber swells, the caliper no longer slides on the guide pins.
 
I have always used the Motorcraft Silicone brake caliper grease on everything. Has worked great on all my vehicles and hopefully on the customers as well, since I've never had a comeback for it. I have seen a few slides that were coated with anti seize. While they were not binding it did seem to have thickend up over time. So while it did work, I felt like the silicone was a better choice.
 
I've been using Sil Glyde for the past 5yrs or so. Prior to that, I was using a jar of CarQuest premium synthetic caliper grease. The green stuff. Pretty sure it Permatex. Either seemed to hold up well, but thicken a bit with age.

A co-worker of mine does brake jobs for people all the time and butters everything with Never Seize. Yikes.
 
I think Silicone or a type of grease with silicone base is the safest to go with for rubber caliper pin bushings. Other types of grease just cause them to eventually tear apart. When I was working on my brakes, It took me a while to find the right type of grease. In Canada, Kleen-flo makes a silicone based grease for brakes call Eze Slide which works great in my opinion. It's not until recently Silicone grease is easier to get a hold of here. Homedepot.ca now has Superlube Silicone Brake Grease for a reasonably good price along with free shipping.

As for Anti-seize, I only use them where the pads and retaining clips touch on the caliper brackets. And that's about it...
 
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