MMO and OCI
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First time with the 20% I'd probably change it at 3,000 miles. Then as long as you aren't running extended drains you can run it for the car makers recommended OCI. Usually when you are trying to clean an engine I'd stick to a 3,000-5,000 OCI though. JMO and what's worked for me over the years.
What exactly are you trying to accomplish?
What exactly are you trying to accomplish?
20% less oil means 20% less detergents, which means 20% less TBN, which should mean 20% less miles.
MMO itself is somewhat of a detergent, it helps clean.
It is a solvent, not a detergent. Calcium is a detergent, and is responsible for most of the TBN an oil has. MMO contains no calcium.
They are not as mutually exclusive as your post seems to imply. I liken MMO to a catalyst for a good detergent package to work with. The MMO softens it up for the detergent/dispersant package to more easily remove in suspension. Final ingredient not to be overlooked is the filter.
That said I'm not a fan of the 20% concentration often advocated. I think MMO is a good thing, and 20% is too much of a good thing. I'd rather run a weaker ratio (10%) over a longer period than a more concentrated dosage in a short period.
Just my opinion. But its how I plan to use it and I expect to get better results with 10% MMO to the PP I'm using than what PP can do alone (despite its calcium package being second only to Ultra).
-Spyder
That said I'm not a fan of the 20% concentration often advocated. I think MMO is a good thing, and 20% is too much of a good thing. I'd rather run a weaker ratio (10%) over a longer period than a more concentrated dosage in a short period.
Just my opinion. But its how I plan to use it and I expect to get better results with 10% MMO to the PP I'm using than what PP can do alone (despite its calcium package being second only to Ultra).
-Spyder
unless MMO has a TBN that is comparable to most oils, then adding it to your oil will decrease the TBN of the sump, which means it can't neutralize as much acid
I'm not arguing that point. But why not both - a high TBN oil and MMO? My point is that they have different purposes, and used properly and for the right application, can be complementary.
If its not needed there is no point in adding it. Because then I do agree with you: end result is less additives and TBN for no gain.
-Spyder
If its not needed there is no point in adding it. Because then I do agree with you: end result is less additives and TBN for no gain.
-Spyder
I would not run a normal OCI with MMO in a strong concentration.
Yes, I know that many do, but I am not comfortable with this approach. Esp in summer conditions.
Yes, I know that many do, but I am not comfortable with this approach. Esp in summer conditions.
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
I would not run a normal OCI with MMO in a strong concentration.
Yes, I know that many do, but I am not comfortable with this approach. Esp in summer conditions.
+1. My bottle still hasn't gone into the crankcase as its too warm still and I'm too early into this OCI. It'll keep til the temps are cooler and I'm close enough to the tail end to safely add it (I take zero risk with anything I put anywhere in my car as its the only one I have right now and it has to be able to go 365 & 24/7 as per the requirements of my job).
-Spyder
I would not run a normal OCI with MMO in a strong concentration.
Yes, I know that many do, but I am not comfortable with this approach. Esp in summer conditions.
+1. My bottle still hasn't gone into the crankcase as its too warm still and I'm too early into this OCI. It'll keep til the temps are cooler and I'm close enough to the tail end to safely add it (I take zero risk with anything I put anywhere in my car as its the only one I have right now and it has to be able to go 365 & 24/7 as per the requirements of my job).
-Spyder
I run MMO one quart to 4 qts of Rotella t6, 252k miles on a 318 engine, no problems and I change oil at between 8 and 10 k miles a month. no problems so far, but I drive a lot and idle a lot, sometime the engine is running 15 hrs a day, includes idle and interstate mainly. IN the winter I sometimes idle it 12 hrs a day depending on where i am, since some places I go its 25 to 40 below zero, I'm into severduty big time usually now so I don't expect any oil or additive to be bullet proof, but so far so good.
Wow that's a lot of driving CourierDriver! The 318 is a solid engine, I'll bet it goes 500,000 miles with the way you're using it.
Spyder you'll be taking zero risk adding MMO for a full OCI. Ease into it, try a pint first. c3po had the same reservations, now he's hooked on MMO. LOL
Spyder you'll be taking zero risk adding MMO for a full OCI. Ease into it, try a pint first. c3po had the same reservations, now he's hooked on MMO. LOL
Its going into both the crankcase and fuel tank next fillup (tc-w3 will stay out until the MMO fuel cycles are over). 12-16 ounces in the crankcase, 3 ounces into each tank of fuel. I only need a little MMO to help the PP along. I'll be surprised if there's much cleaning left to do when this OCI is over. Whatever remains the next OC with PP should be able to handle by itself, and over a longer OCI (5k instead of 3k).
I may even extend it beyond 3k this time, although if I do I'll add another 8 oz of MMO at the 3k mark. I'll have just about 1.5k on this OCI by the time the first dose goes in.
Edit: As long as I'm still seeing progress at 3k, I will push it to 5k as most of these miles so far are the easiest kind on oil (regular highway, nice temps, no cold starts in the weather sense, very little idling).
-Spyder
I may even extend it beyond 3k this time, although if I do I'll add another 8 oz of MMO at the 3k mark. I'll have just about 1.5k on this OCI by the time the first dose goes in.
Edit: As long as I'm still seeing progress at 3k, I will push it to 5k as most of these miles so far are the easiest kind on oil (regular highway, nice temps, no cold starts in the weather sense, very little idling).
-Spyder
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Sounds like a good plan! Let us know how things work out!
I picked up my first bottle of MMO a few weeks back, I was going to wait until the next OCI before adding it to the oil (Temps would be cooler then also) but decided to just add 16oz as a top up for the last 2k miles of the current oil.
My oil pan holds 4 1/2 liters.
I was going to wait until I had run the whole 2k before I made any comment (the MMO has only been in the oil pan 2 weeks)
But I have to say the engine began to run VERY smooth about 200 miles after I added it! Performance (as far as I can tell is the same, so is fuel economy. But the old 22R is abnormally quite, and for the first time will easily pull from Idle.
Honestly I am surprised, I was only hoping for a little cleaning.
I'm not sure why the engine would react this way.
My oil pan holds 4 1/2 liters.
I was going to wait until I had run the whole 2k before I made any comment (the MMO has only been in the oil pan 2 weeks)
But I have to say the engine began to run VERY smooth about 200 miles after I added it! Performance (as far as I can tell is the same, so is fuel economy. But the old 22R is abnormally quite, and for the first time will easily pull from Idle.
Honestly I am surprised, I was only hoping for a little cleaning.
I'm not sure why the engine would react this way.
mine did the exact same thing, added 16oz and it began to get super quiet
Originally Posted By: expat
I picked up my first bottle of MMO a few weeks back, I was going to wait until the next OCI before adding it to the oil (Temps would be cooler then also) but decided to just add 16oz as a top up for the last 2k miles of the current oil.
My oil pan holds 4 1/2 liters.
I was going to wait until I had run the whole 2k before I made any comment (the MMO has only been in the oil pan 2 weeks)
But I have to say the engine began to run VERY smooth about 200 miles after I added it! Performance (as far as I can tell is the same, so is fuel economy. But the old 22R is abnormally quite, and for the first time will easily pull from Idle.
Honestly I am surprised, I was only hoping for a little cleaning.
I'm not sure why the engine would react this way.
Over the years many friends I turned onto MMO had similar comments. c3po was a big skeptic a while back, but had an open mind and gave it a shot. He was and still is amazed how much better his close to 380,000 mile El Camino runs with the addition of MMO to the oil and gas.
It continues to impress people. A buddy of mine just bought about a month ago a high mile Jeep Cherokee 4.0L which was ticking like mad. I gave him half a qt of MMO about 2 weeks ago to add to it. He's another skeptic, last night while we were drinking beers he thanked me, and commented about how much quieter the old Jeep is. I laughed, and said told ya so.
I picked up my first bottle of MMO a few weeks back, I was going to wait until the next OCI before adding it to the oil (Temps would be cooler then also) but decided to just add 16oz as a top up for the last 2k miles of the current oil.
My oil pan holds 4 1/2 liters.
I was going to wait until I had run the whole 2k before I made any comment (the MMO has only been in the oil pan 2 weeks)
But I have to say the engine began to run VERY smooth about 200 miles after I added it! Performance (as far as I can tell is the same, so is fuel economy. But the old 22R is abnormally quite, and for the first time will easily pull from Idle.
Honestly I am surprised, I was only hoping for a little cleaning.
I'm not sure why the engine would react this way.
Over the years many friends I turned onto MMO had similar comments. c3po was a big skeptic a while back, but had an open mind and gave it a shot. He was and still is amazed how much better his close to 380,000 mile El Camino runs with the addition of MMO to the oil and gas.
It continues to impress people. A buddy of mine just bought about a month ago a high mile Jeep Cherokee 4.0L which was ticking like mad. I gave him half a qt of MMO about 2 weeks ago to add to it. He's another skeptic, last night while we were drinking beers he thanked me, and commented about how much quieter the old Jeep is. I laughed, and said told ya so.
Why do I not like STRONG concentrations of MMO for very long periods in an engine?
Well, if you do not need it [just using it for normal maintenance], then it simply is not needed, and engine oil is best for engine protection. Esp in summer when oil thinning is a real concern.
If you engine is the opposite and has sludge problems, then a normal OCI is too long anyway with any cleaner.
This is just sound modern application thinking, to me.
Well, if you do not need it [just using it for normal maintenance], then it simply is not needed, and engine oil is best for engine protection. Esp in summer when oil thinning is a real concern.
If you engine is the opposite and has sludge problems, then a normal OCI is too long anyway with any cleaner.
This is just sound modern application thinking, to me.
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