Mobil Patents 0w100 High Performance Motor Oil

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androbot2084

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I was checking out US patents online and there seems to be a patent for a series of motor oils with radically different viscosities for high performence applications. These viscosities include 0w60 0w70 0w80 0w90 0w100 as well as some negative viscosity motor oils such as -5w40.
These oils seem to be a blend of light medium and heavy weight poly alpha olephins along with polymers of different weights. Theoretically such oils will allow engines to be designed to operate with higher RPM's and such oils will be able to take a greater load. A greater load will be good for truckers because they will be able to lug the engine to gain better fuel economy without destroying it. And of course the wide temperature range of the oil allows better fuel economy and instant lubrication at startup which is a feature tough to find in a high performance oil.
 
Would you please explain what an xW-70, 80, 90 or 100 engine oil would be used for and why?

Also please point us to the SAE definition of 80, 90 or 100 engine oil viscosity, and -5W viscosity.

SAE J300 which defines sAE engine oil viscosities doesn't define those viscosities, which specification does?
 
Yes the 0w100 weight oil is composed of
12% additive package
25% ester
25% ultralightweight poly alpha olefin 2 centistrokes
25% lightweight polyalpha olefin 4 centistrokes
10% heavyweight high viscosity index polyalpha olefin 150 centistrokes
3% heavy weight polymeric thickener 3 Shellvis.TM300
 
Yes they are indeed extrapolated values but very logical nevertheless. So far it seems the oil has been tested to meet the extrapolated SAE viscosities but the patent does not disclose any other testing as such information is probably very much proprietory.

As far as possible applications for the oil one application that could use a high performance oil is the Detroit Diesel 2 stroke engine. This engine calls for a straight 40 or 50 weight oil. Synthetic multigrades have been developed for this engine but their viscosity range is limited to 15w40 for the 40 weight applications. So far wide range synthetic diesel oils such as Mobil Delvac 1 5w40 have been unsuitable for the Detroit Diesel 2 strokes because it only offers the high temperature protection of a straight 30 weight petroleum oil. However a 0w100 oil could offer the protection of a straight 50 weight oil.

Other applications include aircraft engines that require straight 50 grade oils. Again a 15w50 partial synthetic oil has been developed for aircraft engines but 15w ofers only mediocre low temperature performance. Also some Harley Davidson motorcycles require straight 60 weight oil and 20w50 oils which offer either no or mediocre low temperature performance. Dragsters suffering from fuel dillution problems could use a heavy grade oil. Truckers have been switching from 15w40 to 5w40 synthetic oils but 0w40 synthetic oil is limited to Canadadian Truckers. a 0w100 synthetic oil could be used in all temperatures. Also marine and stationary engines that require straigt 40 weight oil could benefit.
 
quote:
androbot2084:
I was checking out US patents online and there seems to be a patent for a series of motor oils with radically different viscosities for high performence applications.
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The key to this is:

"A new type of PAO lubricant was introduced by U.S. Pat. Nos. 4,827,064 and 4,827,073 (Wu). These PAO materials, which are produced by the use of a reduced valence state chromium catalyst, are olefin oligomers or polymers which are characterized by very high viscosity indices which give them very desirable properties to be useful as lubricant basestocks and, with higher viscosity grades; as VI improvers. They are referred to as High Viscosity Index PAOs or HVI-PAOs. The relatively low molecular weight HVI-PAO materials were found to be useful as lubricant basestocks whereas the higher viscosity PAOs, typically with viscosities of 100 cSt or more, e.g. in the range of 100 to 1,000 cSt, were found to be very effective as viscosity index improvers for conventional PAOs and other synthetic and mineral oil derived basestocks."

In other words, they replace VI polymers and some esters.

When you combine these with the vastly improved polymers ExxonMobil has developed, you have the makings of motor oils and other lubricants that are almost immune to temperature changes. 0W-40 motor oils will be child's play.
 
quote:
a 0w100 synthetic oil could be used in all temperatures. [/QB]
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Not at all. A 0W100 would be a "100" weight oil at 100C. It would act like cold oil and cause a tremendous amount of drag.

Something like a -20W20 or a -20W30 would be a useful oil from some ungodly low temperature and it's high VI would keep it from thinning out nearly as much at high temperature as ordinary oils do.

It would also be thinner than existing oils at normal starting temperatures.
 
quote:
Originally posted by XS650:

quote:
a 0w100 synthetic oil could be used in all temperatures.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Not at all. A 0W100 would be a "100" weight oil at 100C. It would act like cold oil and cause a tremendous amount of drag.

Something like a -20W20 or a -20W30 would be a useful oil from some ungodly low temperature and it's high VI would keep it from thinning out nearly as much at high temperature as ordinary oils do.

It would also be thinner than existing oils at normal starting temperatures. [/QB]
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I'd take a -5w40 sounds great. If it had a high HTHS for that high temperature protection and it would be an excellent viscosity if it could hold the 40 weight category.
 
The oil viscosity would be matched to the application and remember this is a high performance motor oil. Applications calling for a straight 50 weight oil such as the Detroit Diesel 2 stroke engine or aircraft engines would benefit from reduced drag when swithching to 0w100. If only a straight 40 weight oil is needed then the 0w80 would be used. Likewise straight 30 weight applications like 4 stroke diesel trucks nd farm equipment may call for 0w60. Passenger cars where a straight 20 weight oil would work would get the -5w40.
 
quote:
Originally posted by androbot2084:
Other applications include aircraft engines that require straight 50 grade oils. Again a 15w50 partial synthetic oil has been developed for aircraft engines but 15w offers only mediocre low temperature performance.
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Well, I wouldn't go quite that far. Fully synthetic oils have proven to be singularly incapable of holding lead in suspension (hence the fact that only non-synthetic and semi-synthetic oils are approved for use in aviation engines), and until TEL is no longer added to AvGAS, no fully synthetic oil, regardless of how capable it otherwise might could well be, will be used in the Lycomings and Continentals of the skies.

FWIW, a few years back Mobil came out with Mobil AV-1 and when airplanes that used this oil started falling out of the sky, the post mortems identified a soft grey buildup fouling up the rings. Lead.
 
Shipo: Agree 100% with what you said. As long as there is lead in AvGAS they won't use 100% PAO oils. Just will not work. I'm in the process of having one of those engines overhauled that the previous owner used Mobil AV1 in. After break in it will get a steady diet of AeroShell W15W50.

The other thing I found interesting about this was the VI improver Mobil was using, Shellvis TM300. Shell does make some of the best VI improvers out there. Extremely shear stable.
 
At this time it is unknown how a fully synthetic 0w100 engine oil would handle lead suspension as this oil may not have yet been tested for aircraft applications. Currently 15w50 semi synthetic oils are available and I think that if an oil could be developed with a wider temperature range this oil would be welcome for aircraft applications as long as the oil can suspend lead. Also a 0w70 semi-synthetic aircraft oil would be a welcome advance if it were offered.
 
androbot2084: I agree with what your saying but their not quite there at this time. I know Shell has been testing a 5W50 aviation oil but it's not quite where they want it for now. The 0W70 would be a great application for some of the older radial engines operating in Alaska and northern Canada. Time will tell.

Heck, I'm just having a hard time convincing my A&P that it will be okay to use 15W50. I trust him with my life when it comes to my plane, but he is from the old school when it comes to oil. I greatly respect his judgement with his 35 years of A&P experience, now I trying to convince him that my 25 years of working in the oil business was not wasted time. There are a lot of general aviation folks that just don't believe in multi-vis oils. New technologies are coming but it will be a hard sell.
 
quote:
Originally posted by androbot2084:
At this time it is unknown how a fully synthetic 0w100 engine oil would handle lead suspension as this oil may not have yet been tested for aircraft applications. Currently 15w50 semi synthetic oils are available and I think that if an oil could be developed with a wider temperature range this oil would be welcome for aircraft applications as long as the oil can suspend lead. Also a 0w70 semi-synthetic aircraft oil would be a welcome advance if it were offered.
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Oh, I think that it's fairly certain. Research in this area has been going on for decades, and at this point it would be pretty much a worthless exercise. Why? Well, there is a LOT of research being put toward Unleaded AvGAS, and there is a growing body of evidence that in spite of what the TEL advocates have to say, an AvGAS 96-UL (or some such) formulation will work perfectly well in the existing fleet.

My prediction is that Unleaded AvGAS will be introduced to the market well before a synthetic oil formulation that is capable of holding lead in suspension.
 
Shipo, I certainly hope your are correct. Would love to see them get rid of the TEL. My plane along with many others has been certified for auto gas, but I will not put that in my plane at this time.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny:
Shipo, I certainly hope your are correct. Would love to see them get rid of the TEL. My plane along with many others has been certified for auto gas, but I will not put that in my plane at this time.
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Agreed. There is plenty of evidence to indicate that MoGAS is simply too unstable for aviation use, even if the plane is flown daily.
 
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