UOA comparison of two modern day TT V6 engines

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davidm_sh

davidm_sh

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It's been quite a while since I have been here but I was really hoping to get some input and opinions on the following two OUAs.

The comparison is between the new 3.5L Ecoboost engine and the 3.8L VR38 (GTR) engine. So far it seems that the GTR engine likes to make metal more so than the average V6 but maybe not beyond the 'normal' for other Nissan engines?

So we had to recently upgrade our family hauler to a larger one to accommodate 4 adults and 2 car seats - enter the new 2010 Ford Flex with Ecoboost (TT 3.5L V6 engine) that makes 350hp/355tq with AWD.

It is a pretty nice engine IMHO - high compression (10.0:1) direct injected V6 engine mated to a decent 6 speed auto. I was a bit skeptical of the oil it calls for however which is Motorcraft synthetic blend OR synthetic BUT at only 5w-20. The owners manual suggest an OCI of 7500 miles with either the blend or full synthetic. At first I was going to use full synthetic but with the dealerships the only ones carrying it now (From my research) for $8/qt I figured I would pass also given it has a smaller cST rating @ 100C than the blend by >
So I figure ok I can get the synthetic blend for like $14 / 6 quarts (needs 5.5 qts of oil per change) at Walmart so I will just do a 3000 OCI. That and the oil started to look noticeably darker right around 3000 miles. So I changed the oil and sent it off for analysis and I was honestly shocked and scared a bit at what they found - overall higher metal counts than the GTR has EVER had and IMHO (not very experienced at OUA opinion) the TBN was pretty low at 3000 miles for an oil that Ford recommends running out to 7500 miles.

Anyway here is the first OUA from our 2010 Ford Flex Ecoboost
4903339426_35e2decc15_b.jpg


Versus our GTR latest OUA
4903339464_fb27f65456_b.jpg


comments and thoughts?
 
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I will leave the comments to others, but just to let you know it is UOA (used oil analysis) and I have asked the moderators to move this to the UOA section so more folks will see it.

Glad you posted and WELCOME aboard.
 
Interesting the M1 sheared to a 30wt. I'd be interested in seeing its viscosity in another 2k miles as some have said it eventually gains viscosity.
 
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
Interesting the M1 sheared to a 30wt. I'd be interested in seeing its viscosity in another 2k miles as some have said it eventually gains viscosity.


From the UOA reports posted in GTR forums I have the only one that showed one example of the oil staying withing viscosity spec (granted that was for a short 2000 mile interval). But it seems common that the oil shears down quickly out of spec. I have never heard of it gaining viscosity the longer it is run before.

That was one part that surprised me on the ecoboost engine that the oil sheared quite a bit out of range fairly quickly.
 
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I don't understand your first UOA - it's the factory fill on the truck w/2900 miles on it, but it says Amsoil 5W-30???
 
Looks like a factory fill. Nothing you can jump on at this point. Keep following the trending. TBN of 4.4 is really dang good at 3K for this engine.
 
no reason for concern on the new ecoboost engine. Everything will fix itself with a little time.

As powerful as the Nissan is I'm surprised it didn't kill the oil much worse!
 
TBN doesnt go down in a linear fashion. (just making these up) it can start at 10.0, at 500 miles it can drop to 5.0 and at 4000 miles it could be at 3.0 and stay there for another few thousand miles.
 
If it were me, I would stop using the expensive oils for the short OCI's in your new Family vehicle. (I understand you use the other one on the track so have at it) As I was saying I would use a decent quality conventional or the blend and basically flush that ford flex. ie 2k OCI's at most for the next 4 or 5 OC's and get the (dirt and grit) out of that new engine. No use using amsoil etc. for this break-in period. After the 4th or 5th OC, get another UOA to see where it is trending. I have done that to my NEW cars ALWAYS and I'm up to 130k on the 07 Accord v6 with just regular maint.. I Usually dont get a UOA until after the process I explained above. Hope I wasn't too confusing or misunderstanding your question.

Thank you for the oua's!! I mean uoa's
43.gif
 
Thanks for the replies everyone. I think the default oil type that is in the system at blackstone for me is Amsoil 5w-30 for some reason. I could have sworn I put down MC 0W-20 synthetic blend for the oil in the Flex though.

Regardless it has and will have MC 0W-20 used in it for the forseeable future.

Lots of good info - didn't realize that about TBN I assumed it was linear.
 
Continue the 3k oci till the wear metals approach a normal level. Let the dealer do the changes to document warranty compliance. JMO.
 
As others have said, things will improve. The only thing I don't really like is the shearing after 3K, but again hopefully this improves with miles.

How do you like the Ecoboost? I heard it has good power.
 
Originally Posted By: panthermike
As others have said, things will improve. The only thing I don't really like is the shearing after 3K, but again hopefully this improves with miles.

How do you like the Ecoboost? I heard it has good power.


Yah it seems that is one thing the GTR and the Ecoboost have in common - shearing of the oil very quickly.

We like it quite a bit actually. And this is coming from someone who hasn't bought a US made (brand) vehicle in 18 years. Overall it is very quiet, comfortable, and quite eager to get up and go. We bought it due to living in Colorado (higher altitude) and my wife wanted something that could get out of it's own way when merging and do something more than just downshift and make noise :).

For a 4800lb vehicle it does very well. We came from a 269HP Toyota Rav4 that weighed 3600lbs. So about the same power/weight ratio.
 
I would usually do the online forum searching/research myself but I honestly just don't have the time to search through this site. I have tried in the past and the amount of information and amount of detail there is in oil analysis is just a bit beyond my time limits at this point in my life.

So I was wondering if I could tap into the expertise of some of the regulars on this forum and ask the following question.

Has there been any kind of trends emerging in the last 5 or 10 years with newer engines and/or using thinner oils showing any trends? Like shearing oils out of spec quicker than normal? If so is it due to the oils themselves shearing down quicker or the seemingly ever longer manufacturers OCI recommendations playing into it as well?

This question is based more from my observations of the GTR and general observations in the GTR community so far using the factory recommended Mobil1 0W-40. I hope the shearing seen in the Flex is just a one-off break in thing but will see in future UOA.
 
Wait until it's broke in (or more broke in than at the time of this UOA), then get a proper UOA. You can't tell anything about a car before 20k miles on a UOA. Except that it's breaking in.

BTW, that Ford doesn't call for 5W-20 does it? I know, I know, I'm not trying to step back into the past, but there's no way I'd run 5W-20 in a twin turbo V6 pushing over 350 horsepower. But, that's because there's no way I could baby a car like that. I'm sure if you drive like a grandma, everything will be ok, and it will never see over 220 horsepower, more than likely, but if I was a guy putting my foot down, letting those turbos spool and RPM wind, I'd have to have a good, hard to shear oil such as GC 0W-30, or M1 0W-40 (which is known to shear but only down to a thick 30 weight).
 
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