sawed off 12 gauge with a pistol grip

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Originally Posted By: VicL
Just a guess, but the 18" limit may be due to the wide dispersment of shot with the extreme short barrel.


I believe that limit originated back in the gangster era. Probably for other reasons than bystander safety.
 
Why are some illegal; why 18" minimum for shotguns, 16" for rifles, etc? National Firearms Act of 1934. LInk:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act

It's worth noting that in the 1920s & early 30s Ithaca made some very short 20 ga double-bbl shotguns, called the Auto & the Burglar, I believe. Strictly for close range defensive use, pistol grip only, the whole thing approximately a foot long. They, along with the old Marbles Game-Getter(a .410 handgun) & many others(such as handguns with detachable shoulder stocks- notable examples, some Colt revolvers & the Luger!) fell victim to this law. The rationale for the law was to keep dangerous weapons from those bad old gangsters like Dillinger, Nelson, & Bonnie & Clyde. And yet somehow it failed to do that. Gee.
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Originally Posted By: Shannow

I see it in many other things, but you like painting people with your own pallette, as it makes your world view easier.

Tell me again how wild voltage swings, square waves and variable frequency would improve your internet experience.

But I thought you were the enlightened one that saw things in shades of gray??

What makes the regulators of electricity any more knowledgeable and less arbitrary than those that regulate guns?

And have you ever heard of Underwriters Laboratories?
 
Originally Posted By: Stuart Hughes
Why are some illegal; why 18" minimum for shotguns, 16" for rifles, etc? National Firearms Act of 1934. LInk:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act

It's worth noting that in the 1920s & early 30s Ithaca made some very short 20 ga double-bbl shotguns, called the Auto & the Burglar, I believe. Strictly for close range defensive use, pistol grip only, the whole thing approximately a foot long. They, along with the old Marbles Game-Getter(a .410 handgun) & many others(such as handguns with detachable shoulder stocks- notable examples, some Colt revolvers & the Luger!) fell victim to this law. The rationale for the law was to keep dangerous weapons from those bad old gangsters like Dillinger, Nelson, & Bonnie & Clyde. And yet somehow it failed to do that. Gee.
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Yep, and notice how they enforce it via the power to tax, not to regulate firearms. It's end run around the enumerated powers...and courts are more than happy to allow it.
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: Shannow

I see it in many other things, but you like painting people with your own pallette, as it makes your world view easier.

Tell me again how wild voltage swings, square waves and variable frequency would improve your internet experience.

But I thought you were the enlightened one that saw things in shades of gray??

What makes the regulators of electricity any more knowledgeable and less arbitrary than those that regulate guns?

And have you ever heard of Underwriters Laboratories?


I think that you answered your own question tempest.

Keep up the good work.
 
Say what? UL is a private firm.

And since we are in the gun section:

Guns are not regulated by our Consumer product safety commission (thank goodness), and yet they are very high quality, safe, and reliable.

Ammo is not regulated by government either, yet it is also very safe, reliable, and consistent. It is overseen by a private entity known as SAAMI.

This should not be the case with your view.
 
That gov. regulation is necessary for things to work. Otherwise we would still be in the "wild west" and the entire electrical grid would come to a screaming halt because the private sector just wouldn't care enough to make it work...even though they invented it.

Unregulated guns and bullets should be blowing up on their operators all over the place.
 
Have I ever said for ALL things to work ?

Once ?

Govt tells us what side of the road to drive on, and for a very good reason. They also tell us what the system frequency is, how close to a sine wave that your power has to be, and that you must be able to ride through a system excursion without tripping to gain "automatic" access to the grid. If you can't meet the automatic access, you can negotiate access.


You've even argued the same

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1525533

BTW

http://www.saami.org/who_we_are/index.cfm

In other words, the industry was told to self regulate, or have someone else do it for you.
 
Thanks guys. Took it out today and shot a box (25) of 2 3/4 inch, #7 1/2 shot. It feels good. A nice gun. I didn't like it too much before I shot it, but when shooting the action makes alot more sense. Also, the manual states it was a 6 shot and the box stated it was an 8 shot. I assumed it was a cheap gun and Mossberg didn't know what they were doing. The stiffness of it is nice because when you're ready to go through 7 shots you kind of get into it and anticipate the recoil.

Hard to aim I must say. I kept hitting high at a can in the water at about 40 feet. It was a pretty intense session. Got a water blister on my thumb joint.

Also, I shot my 9mm with my left hand and came so close to hitting the can. At first I would just chamber one round out of fear of dropping it, but it went well....just hard to hold aim and squeeze simultaneously.

I can get pics if ya'll like.
 
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