So the squealing noise was as I thought, worn out front pads. I replaced them with Wagner Thermo-quiets. Made in USA (surprisingly), and I went out to bed them in. Luckily the road was completely empty and I did quite a few 55-10 Slow downs, until there was enough smoke coming from the front wheel wells to look like my engine was on fire. And boy, do those things smell. The smell lingered for about 5 days. But these pads bite extremely well, great braking from these things. So far highly recommended. They are the semi-metallic kind, not the ceramics.
Wagner Thermo-quiet pads
- Thread starter Nick R
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Thats good to know cause I'm going to buy some now that they have a rebate going on.
JHZR2
Staff member
Never seen smoke from bedding in pads myself - did you clean the grease/oil from the rotors?
Nothing was on rotors, the rotors were in good shape, didn't replace. I've read that smoke from pad bed in is normal, and nothing to worry about.
http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm
Quote:
The brakes may begin to fade after the 7th or 8th near-stop. This fade will stabilize, but not completely go away until the brakes have fully cooled. A strong smell from the brakes, and even some smoke, is normal.
Quote:
The brakes may begin to fade after the 7th or 8th near-stop. This fade will stabilize, but not completely go away until the brakes have fully cooled. A strong smell from the brakes, and even some smoke, is normal.
I've never smoked brakes upon break in and never had problems. And those instructions are for racing applications, not for street cars.
Originally Posted By: Tempest
I've never smoked brakes upon break in and never had problems. And those instructions are for racing applications, not for street cars.
I didn't just use those, I used others too. I did 3 near stops from 40mph, and then drove down the road a bit, with no braking. then I did 5 55-15 slow downs with the brakes pressed down as far as they would go, which with the new pads combined with fade did not result in ABS or lockup. At this point I had to stop for a traffic light, put in neutral and used e-brake to hold in place (this was where I could see the smoke from the front brakes), and then drove 10 miles at 55. It was a clear, cool night, perfect for driving through the country. At this point, the brakes were perfect, better brake feel than the old pads.
I've never smoked brakes upon break in and never had problems. And those instructions are for racing applications, not for street cars.
I didn't just use those, I used others too. I did 3 near stops from 40mph, and then drove down the road a bit, with no braking. then I did 5 55-15 slow downs with the brakes pressed down as far as they would go, which with the new pads combined with fade did not result in ABS or lockup. At this point I had to stop for a traffic light, put in neutral and used e-brake to hold in place (this was where I could see the smoke from the front brakes), and then drove 10 miles at 55. It was a clear, cool night, perfect for driving through the country. At this point, the brakes were perfect, better brake feel than the old pads.
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Old pad
Old pad with new pad
New pad box
Hard to see, but it does say made in USA on it
Old pad with new pad
New pad box
Hard to see, but it does say made in USA on it
I have no complaints about the thermoquiets on the front of my F-150. I got them for $15 after a rebate.
There've been complaints about the caliper piston "cutting" through the IMI system on the pad, resulting in brake noise after a short period of time.
Originally Posted By: Nick R
http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm
Quote:
The brakes may begin to fade after the 7th or 8th near-stop. This fade will stabilize, but not completely go away until the brakes have fully cooled. A strong smell from the brakes, and even some smoke, is normal.
Thermoquiets are not performance pads. With that bed-in method, you may glaze them. Wagner has a very specific bed-in method:
http://www.centralpartsandsupply.com/specials_flyers/Brake noise & repair.pdf
From page 15, Federal Mogul (Wagner) Troubleshooting guide:
"Disc Pad and Brake Shoe Burnish Procedure
An effective burnish cycle to seat the friction materials into the opposing rotor and drum surfaces requires approximately 200 stops. The 200 stops is consistent with the burnish procedure in the FMVSS 105. As a practical matter for installers, 200 stops probably will not happen since few installers have all day to make that number of stops. Therefore, we recommend the following burnish procedure:
• Make approximately 20 complete stops from 30-mph or 20 “slow downs” from 50-mph to 20-mph with light to moderate pedal pressure
• NO PANIC STOPS
• Allow at least 30 seconds between brake applications for the brake pads or shoes to cool down
• No high speed stops and/or braking under heavy loads that could
result in glazed or otherwise damaged linings Using these guidelines, the friction materials will have conformed to the surface of the rotors and drums for improved stopping performance. In addition, the thermal conditioning of the friction materials during this process will increase the stability of braking effectiveness over a greater range of temperatures compared to when they were first installed."
Originally Posted By: Nick R
http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm
Quote:
The brakes may begin to fade after the 7th or 8th near-stop. This fade will stabilize, but not completely go away until the brakes have fully cooled. A strong smell from the brakes, and even some smoke, is normal.
Thermoquiets are not performance pads. With that bed-in method, you may glaze them. Wagner has a very specific bed-in method:
http://www.centralpartsandsupply.com/specials_flyers/Brake noise & repair.pdf
From page 15, Federal Mogul (Wagner) Troubleshooting guide:
"Disc Pad and Brake Shoe Burnish Procedure
An effective burnish cycle to seat the friction materials into the opposing rotor and drum surfaces requires approximately 200 stops. The 200 stops is consistent with the burnish procedure in the FMVSS 105. As a practical matter for installers, 200 stops probably will not happen since few installers have all day to make that number of stops. Therefore, we recommend the following burnish procedure:
• Make approximately 20 complete stops from 30-mph or 20 “slow downs” from 50-mph to 20-mph with light to moderate pedal pressure
• NO PANIC STOPS
• Allow at least 30 seconds between brake applications for the brake pads or shoes to cool down
• No high speed stops and/or braking under heavy loads that could
result in glazed or otherwise damaged linings Using these guidelines, the friction materials will have conformed to the surface of the rotors and drums for improved stopping performance. In addition, the thermal conditioning of the friction materials during this process will increase the stability of braking effectiveness over a greater range of temperatures compared to when they were first installed."
Those harsh break in techniques for brake pads are primarily for racing, and very hard street use.
In normal use, this type of 'adherent' transfer friction is not applicable, and normal abrasive friction does.
Normal driving will remove the layer that was built up by hard applications anyway. Back to square one!
50 to 500 miles of normal street driving are about right for us, with no special techniques.
In normal use, this type of 'adherent' transfer friction is not applicable, and normal abrasive friction does.
Normal driving will remove the layer that was built up by hard applications anyway. Back to square one!
50 to 500 miles of normal street driving are about right for us, with no special techniques.
Well, considering for the first few stops (slow or not) there was literally almost NO braking at ALL.... I could put my foot all the way to the floor, and it would be more effective to use the parking brake to slow down.
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Originally Posted By: Nick R
Well, considering for the first few stops (slow or not) there was literally almost NO braking at ALL.... I could put my foot all the way to the floor, and it would be more effective to use the parking brake to slow down.
It sounds like you didn't prime the pedal before taking your road trip.
I put new Raybestos pads and cheap rotors on my wife's "new" Focus today. Primed the pedal with a few pumps to firm it up before starting the car and the first stop as I headed down the road was perfect. Took the car for some spirited driving to clear off any residual oils and there was no fade, or strange braking behaviour the entire time......
Well, considering for the first few stops (slow or not) there was literally almost NO braking at ALL.... I could put my foot all the way to the floor, and it would be more effective to use the parking brake to slow down.
It sounds like you didn't prime the pedal before taking your road trip.
I put new Raybestos pads and cheap rotors on my wife's "new" Focus today. Primed the pedal with a few pumps to firm it up before starting the car and the first stop as I headed down the road was perfect. Took the car for some spirited driving to clear off any residual oils and there was no fade, or strange braking behaviour the entire time......
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Unless it's the angle of the camera, it looks like the old pad is worn unevenly. It looks thicker on one end than the other... Maybe time for a caliper replacement.
Yeah it's unevenly worn, not just the camera.
Unless it's the angle of the camera, it looks like the old pad is worn unevenly. It looks thicker on one end than the other... Maybe time for a caliper replacement.
Yeah it's unevenly worn, not just the camera.
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Unless it's the angle of the camera, it looks like the old pad is worn unevenly. It looks thicker on one end than the other... Maybe time for a caliper replacement.
Yeah it's unevenly worn, not just the camera.
Or, maybe just servicing the caliper pins (clean/lube or replace and lube) would solve the problem.
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Unless it's the angle of the camera, it looks like the old pad is worn unevenly. It looks thicker on one end than the other... Maybe time for a caliper replacement.
Yeah it's unevenly worn, not just the camera.
Or, maybe just servicing the caliper pins (clean/lube or replace and lube) would solve the problem.
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Unless it's the angle of the camera, it looks like the old pad is worn unevenly. It looks thicker on one end than the other... Maybe time for a caliper replacement.
Yeah it's unevenly worn, not just the camera.
Or, maybe just servicing the caliper pins (clean/lube or replace and lube) would solve the problem.
I would tend to agree, but with the addition of high mileage I'd suggest replacing them to avoid piston sticking or seal leaking.
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Unless it's the angle of the camera, it looks like the old pad is worn unevenly. It looks thicker on one end than the other... Maybe time for a caliper replacement.
Yeah it's unevenly worn, not just the camera.
Or, maybe just servicing the caliper pins (clean/lube or replace and lube) would solve the problem.
I would tend to agree, but with the addition of high mileage I'd suggest replacing them to avoid piston sticking or seal leaking.
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Unless it's the angle of the camera, it looks like the old pad is worn unevenly. It looks thicker on one end than the other... Maybe time for a caliper replacement.
Yeah it's unevenly worn, not just the camera.
Or, maybe just servicing the caliper pins (clean/lube or replace and lube) would solve the problem.
I would tend to agree, but with the addition of high mileage I'd suggest replacing them to avoid piston sticking or seal leaking.
+1
Piston seals stretch over time and prevent the calipers from fully retracting. I would install a pair of remanufactured, semi-loaded front calipers.
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Unless it's the angle of the camera, it looks like the old pad is worn unevenly. It looks thicker on one end than the other... Maybe time for a caliper replacement.
Yeah it's unevenly worn, not just the camera.
Or, maybe just servicing the caliper pins (clean/lube or replace and lube) would solve the problem.
I would tend to agree, but with the addition of high mileage I'd suggest replacing them to avoid piston sticking or seal leaking.
+1
Piston seals stretch over time and prevent the calipers from fully retracting. I would install a pair of remanufactured, semi-loaded front calipers.
Just installed the Thermoquiets on my truck. Did a bed-in similar to what Wagner recommends and so far they feel good. Never had brakes that put out that much odor during bedding before, though!
I did notice they at "GG" pads. How have they been for everybody else? 70k on the orginals with some life left, hoping to see the same with these.
I did notice they at "GG" pads. How have they been for everybody else? 70k on the orginals with some life left, hoping to see the same with these.
Originally Posted By: buck91
I did notice they at "GG" pads. How have they been for everybody else? 70k on the orginals with some life left, hoping to see the same with these.
Almost 20K on my Corolla fronts, and they are doing fine. I am picky about noise and feel, but don't care about improving bite or dust like some folks here.
I did notice they at "GG" pads. How have they been for everybody else? 70k on the orginals with some life left, hoping to see the same with these.
Almost 20K on my Corolla fronts, and they are doing fine. I am picky about noise and feel, but don't care about improving bite or dust like some folks here.
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