Schaeffer's 9000 is an AWESOME oil-but the ash content is too high (1%) to be a 229.51 oil. For warranty purposes I'd bite the bullet & get the M1 ESP or the Valvoline MST.
Jeep Grand Cherokee - 3.0L CDI (Benz)
- Thread starter BennyL
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Schaeffer's 9000 is an AWESOME oil-but the ash content is too high (1%) to be a 229.51 oil. For warranty purposes I'd bite the bullet & get the M1 ESP or the Valvoline MST.
Yep..their literature says MB 229.5 not MB229.51.
Schaeffer's 9000 is an AWESOME oil-but the ash content is too high (1%) to be a 229.51 oil. For warranty purposes I'd bite the bullet & get the M1 ESP or the Valvoline MST.
Yep..their literature says MB 229.5 not MB229.51.
Hey, it's been another year since my last post, so I wanted to check again to see if anyone had any new info on where to find the 229.51 spec oil for a good price. I seem to recall that Mobil 1 ESP 5w-30 was supposed to become more widely available in the U.S.
Pep Boys has M1 5W-40 ESP Formula M which meets MB 229.51
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Schaeffer will back the oil if they say it meets a certain standard. I would have no problem using it. No where is Schaeffer oil listed in the Cummins literature for my ISX engine, but I have no problem using it and the Cummins shop has no problem with it as well. Cummins just lists the spec and doesn't go so far as to have a recommended list of brands. If an engine oil supplier says that it meets a spec, and then an engine problem can be traced to the oil itself, then you would have a case against them anyway and they would have to ante up for the repairs or new engine. Just because a company doesn't "pay" an OEM for the right to be on an "approved" list, does not mean that their oil won't meet or exceed the standard. With litigation the way it is in this country, it is really playing Russian Roulette to say an oil meets the spec when it really doesn't. And Schaeffer has been at this game since 1834, so I wouldn't sweat using their oil. But if you prefer to pay more for an oil on an "approved" list, then by all means do so. I have no dog in that hunt.
And he knows that so I wonder why it even came up ?
Schaeffer will back the oil if they say it meets a certain standard. I would have no problem using it. No where is Schaeffer oil listed in the Cummins literature for my ISX engine, but I have no problem using it and the Cummins shop has no problem with it as well. Cummins just lists the spec and doesn't go so far as to have a recommended list of brands. If an engine oil supplier says that it meets a spec, and then an engine problem can be traced to the oil itself, then you would have a case against them anyway and they would have to ante up for the repairs or new engine. Just because a company doesn't "pay" an OEM for the right to be on an "approved" list, does not mean that their oil won't meet or exceed the standard. With litigation the way it is in this country, it is really playing Russian Roulette to say an oil meets the spec when it really doesn't. And Schaeffer has been at this game since 1834, so I wouldn't sweat using their oil. But if you prefer to pay more for an oil on an "approved" list, then by all means do so. I have no dog in that hunt.
And he knows that so I wonder why it even came up ?
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Schaeffer's 9000 is an AWESOME oil-but the ash content is too high (1%) to be a 229.51 oil. For warranty purposes I'd bite the bullet & get the M1 ESP or the Valvoline MST.
Yep..their literature says MB 229.5 not MB229.51.
Wrong it is approved for that oil spec
bottle label is more current than web site
Warranty purposes -- every time I read that I laugh ........ you'd be hard pressed to list a handful of warranty refusals due to oil used anyway
People need to read the Moss - Ferguson act and understand -- a company has to be able to show an oil caused engine damage before warranty claims can be denied -- a near impossibility unless the oil is falling out in clumps or some other extreme cause, like using 3 in 1 sewing machine oil instead of engine oil .
BUT IT IS A INTERNET ARGUEMENT SO WHAT THE HECK
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Schaeffer's 9000 is an AWESOME oil-but the ash content is too high (1%) to be a 229.51 oil. For warranty purposes I'd bite the bullet & get the M1 ESP or the Valvoline MST.
Yep..their literature says MB 229.5 not MB229.51.
Wrong it is approved for that oil spec
bottle label is more current than web site
Warranty purposes -- every time I read that I laugh ........ you'd be hard pressed to list a handful of warranty refusals due to oil used anyway
People need to read the Moss - Ferguson act and understand -- a company has to be able to show an oil caused engine damage before warranty claims can be denied -- a near impossibility unless the oil is falling out in clumps or some other extreme cause, like using 3 in 1 sewing machine oil instead of engine oil .
BUT IT IS A INTERNET ARGUEMENT SO WHAT THE HECK
Last edited:
At the risk of an endless argument, I will reiterate that Scheffer is "liberal" with their claims. Just one of several contradictions in their claims on that bottle:
One of the most important oil characteristics is HTHS (high temp/high shear viscosity)
ACEA E7: HTHS>3.5
ACEA A5/B5: 2.9 How can a number be both above and below 3.5?
http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/files/20090105_081211_ACEA_Oil_Sequences_Final.pdf
There are numerous other contradictions in their claims.
Charlie
One of the most important oil characteristics is HTHS (high temp/high shear viscosity)
ACEA E7: HTHS>3.5
ACEA A5/B5: 2.9 How can a number be both above and below 3.5?
http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/files/20090105_081211_ACEA_Oil_Sequences_Final.pdf
There are numerous other contradictions in their claims.
Charlie
Just an FYI for those looking for the latest prices for 229.51 Oil to use in their Grand Cherokee Diesels. Here in Chicago, I found my local Pep Boys had Mobil 1 ESP M 5W-30 for sale at $7.99 per liter.
One of the Mercedes dealers that I called wouldn't sell me the oil retail. Their parts guy said it was only sold to customers getting an oil change there.
I managed to get it changed doing it myself. Forgot to put the copper washer back on the drain plug but otherwise it went smoothly.
One of the Mercedes dealers that I called wouldn't sell me the oil retail. Their parts guy said it was only sold to customers getting an oil change there.
I managed to get it changed doing it myself. Forgot to put the copper washer back on the drain plug but otherwise it went smoothly.
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
At the risk of an endless argument, I will reiterate that Scheffer is "liberal" with their claims. Just one of several contradictions in their claims on that bottle:
One of the most important oil characteristics is HTHS (high temp/high shear viscosity)
ACEA E7: HTHS>3.5
ACEA A5/B5: 2.9 How can a number be both above and below 3.5?
http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/files/20090105_081211_ACEA_Oil_Sequences_Final.pdf
There are numerous other contradictions in their claims.
Charlie
Shell will withhold ingredients and call it proprietary information
Mobil will exaggerate its effectiveness
Castroil .... well lets not go there
One can company bash all one wants ... fact is they put it in writing . Case Closed
At the risk of an endless argument, I will reiterate that Scheffer is "liberal" with their claims. Just one of several contradictions in their claims on that bottle:
One of the most important oil characteristics is HTHS (high temp/high shear viscosity)
ACEA E7: HTHS>3.5
ACEA A5/B5: 2.9 How can a number be both above and below 3.5?
http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/files/20090105_081211_ACEA_Oil_Sequences_Final.pdf
There are numerous other contradictions in their claims.
Charlie
Shell will withhold ingredients and call it proprietary information
Mobil will exaggerate its effectiveness
Castroil .... well lets not go there
One can company bash all one wants ... fact is they put it in writing . Case Closed
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
At the risk of an endless argument, I will reiterate that Scheffer is "liberal" with their claims. Just one of several contradictions in their claims on that bottle:
One of the most important oil characteristics is HTHS (high temp/high shear viscosity)
ACEA E7: HTHS>3.5
ACEA A5/B5: 2.9 How can a number be both above and below 3.5?
http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/files/20090105_081211_ACEA_Oil_Sequences_Final.pdf
There are numerous other contradictions in their claims.
Charlie
Lets just agree to disagree .
Well instead of opinion I will post facts .
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1969579#Post1969579
At the risk of an endless argument, I will reiterate that Scheffer is "liberal" with their claims. Just one of several contradictions in their claims on that bottle:
One of the most important oil characteristics is HTHS (high temp/high shear viscosity)
ACEA E7: HTHS>3.5
ACEA A5/B5: 2.9 How can a number be both above and below 3.5?
http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/files/20090105_081211_ACEA_Oil_Sequences_Final.pdf
There are numerous other contradictions in their claims.
Charlie
Lets just agree to disagree .
Well instead of opinion I will post facts .
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1969579#Post1969579
That UOA is not telling you what the oil is doing to the PDF. The PDF could be dying for all we know.
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
That UOA is not telling you what the oil is doing to the PDF. The PDF could be dying for all we know.
I assume you mean DPF ????
The DPF and EGR are part of the emissions system.
Which by law has a 5 - 7 year 100000 miles warranty per the federal government .
I suggest you worry a little less about the DPF ... which might not be dieing LOL .
The whole DPF and .2 percent more of saps is a anal issue at best . Most all manufacturers will not be that close to a tolerance prescribed in their specifications of their own product .
YMMV
That UOA is not telling you what the oil is doing to the PDF. The PDF could be dying for all we know.
I assume you mean DPF ????
The DPF and EGR are part of the emissions system.
Which by law has a 5 - 7 year 100000 miles warranty per the federal government .
I suggest you worry a little less about the DPF ... which might not be dieing LOL .
The whole DPF and .2 percent more of saps is a anal issue at best . Most all manufacturers will not be that close to a tolerance prescribed in their specifications of their own product .
YMMV
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
At the risk of an endless argument, I will reiterate that Scheffer is "liberal" with their claims. Just one of several contradictions in their claims on that bottle:
One of the most important oil characteristics is HTHS (high temp/high shear viscosity)
ACEA E7: HTHS>3.5
ACEA A5/B5: 2.9 How can a number be both above and below 3.5?
http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/files/20090105_081211_ACEA_Oil_Sequences_Final.pdf
There are numerous other contradictions in their claims.
Charlie
m37charlie,
Schaeffer lists the HTHS as 4.5 in the Supreme 9000 Technical Data Sheet on their website.
See for yourself...
http://www.schaefferoil.com/datapdf/9000.pdf
I believe the numbers on the bottle are the specified spec minimum standards.
That's all...
At the risk of an endless argument, I will reiterate that Scheffer is "liberal" with their claims. Just one of several contradictions in their claims on that bottle:
One of the most important oil characteristics is HTHS (high temp/high shear viscosity)
ACEA E7: HTHS>3.5
ACEA A5/B5: 2.9 How can a number be both above and below 3.5?
http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/files/20090105_081211_ACEA_Oil_Sequences_Final.pdf
There are numerous other contradictions in their claims.
Charlie
m37charlie,
Schaeffer lists the HTHS as 4.5 in the Supreme 9000 Technical Data Sheet on their website.
See for yourself...
http://www.schaefferoil.com/datapdf/9000.pdf
I believe the numbers on the bottle are the specified spec minimum standards.
That's all...
Last edited:
Schaeffer's needs to make the "meets following specs list" match their bottles label also .
Maybe they will update the specs list someday .
http://i29.tinypic.com/2ib2hcx.jpg
Maybe they will update the specs list someday .
http://i29.tinypic.com/2ib2hcx.jpg
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: badnews
The whole DPF and .2 percent more of saps is a anal issue at best . Most all manufacturers will not be that close to a tolerance prescribed in their specifications of their own product .
YMMV
Try to say that when you are filing for a warranty claim. A Mercedes DPF is not cheap ($600 + tax + installation) and I believe Mercedes and Mobil and others do know many orders of magnitude more than you do about their products. YMMV, indeed.
The whole DPF and .2 percent more of saps is a anal issue at best . Most all manufacturers will not be that close to a tolerance prescribed in their specifications of their own product .
YMMV
Try to say that when you are filing for a warranty claim. A Mercedes DPF is not cheap ($600 + tax + installation) and I believe Mercedes and Mobil and others do know many orders of magnitude more than you do about their products. YMMV, indeed.
I prefer manufacturer data and recommendations over internet debate and arguments. You are just one data point whereas the manufacturers have thousands.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa5322/is_200402/ai_n21344335/?tag=content;col1
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa5322/is_200402/ai_n21344335/?tag=content;col1
With due respect, I don't think you got my point. Schaeffer says the oil meets both A5/B5, which is between 2.9 and 3.5; and E specs and APE C specs, which are greater than 3.5 t0 3.7. That's physically impossible in this universe anyways for a measured scalar number to be both below 3.5 and above 3.7!
Although i have no definite information to prove it, I sincerely doubt the oil meets ACEA E6. It seems to be formulated for the US market as an API CJ4 oil, which usually contain 1000-1200 ppm P. E6 requires P
Charlie
Although i have no definite information to prove it, I sincerely doubt the oil meets ACEA E6. It seems to be formulated for the US market as an API CJ4 oil, which usually contain 1000-1200 ppm P. E6 requires P
Charlie
I hear you m37. I believe Schaeffer is a very good oil and I have run their micron moly oils in the past. But Schaeffer and others like Lucas put on the bottle that they meet or exceed all manufacturers under the sun is a little misleading. Of course, they will say that they will warranty for any damages but by the time any thing is wrong it might be difficult to pin it on the oil. A stuffed up DPF is tough to prove whether it was the fuel or the oil or a DPF defect. This is the reason why I have kept a usage log and every maintenance receipts while the vehicle is under warranty.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUOhqqyu3RY&feature=player_embedded#!
The problem here here is most don't have a clue about what they are talking about.
Me being the exception
The problem here here is most don't have a clue about what they are talking about.
Me being the exception
Last edited:
- Status
