Any proof?

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Does anyone have proof that using oil branded "Harley Davidson" will cause premature wear in their motors? From looking at the voa's and uoa's, alot of non Harley oil's have more or higher numbers of their anti wear ingredients. So why is it that Harley's oil which isn't cheap, has less of certain things and Harley is happy with it?.Could it be Harley knows exactly what their motors need, double that amount and have it made with their name on it? The dealerships sell alot of their oil and you don't hear of mass motor explosions.,,
 
HD oil may be using better quality base oil, which would make up for the weaker additive package. There is more than one way to skin the cat.

Most oils are so good these days, you would really have to dig long and hard to find an oil that would cause damage to your engine, but that's just my opinion.
 
Marketing,profits,,,,sell a sub par/ordinary product for a premium price!

brain washed people fall right into it, a HDEO will perform and get the job done very well for less!
 
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
How is it sub par, if it does everything it was designed to do?

because cheaper priced oil's will do the same job OR better.

when you got $15+ on a qt of oil it better hold grade show low wear numbers have a well built add pack etc...
 
I'm actually referring to their lower priced Hd 360 oil 20/50 wt. It costs between $5-$7.50 a qt. I agree $15 a qt oil should last the life of the bike. A few uoa's I've seen for Harley's oil look like they hold up as good as the high $$$ oils.
 
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Does anyone have proof that using oil branded "Harley Davidson" will cause premature wear in their motors? .....................The dealerships sell alot of their oil and you don't hear of mass motor explosions.,,


I wasn’t aware that the HD motor oils are held in such low regard. The HD360 dino and SYN3 give very good results. Wear metals are typically single digits outside of break-in. They also hold their grade as well as the others generally speaking. The additive package is at least adequate and a bit unique actually due to its use of Magnesium at about 750 ppm. The additive package is the same for both dino and syn. I’ve seen some HD360 UOAs that for all practical purposes are as good as any of the others even at 5k. I don't use them by the way.

There are two reasons that I can think of why people don’t use them.

a) Citgo has the contract and many do not like supporting Mr. Chavez
b) The price, $6.50 for dino, $11.50 for Syn

The price however is more competitive than most OEM labeled MC oils. It is just that you can get some very good oils for less $$$.

See an example of HD360 in a mature motor here.


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1595641#Post1595641
 
It was my impression after looking at the UOA's posted by HD2002 ? (Sorry if, I got the wrong handle.) That the HD360 oil looked just as good as the Amsoil.

Certainly the HD oils get a bad grade from those who know. The arguements are pretty much the same.

Price | Citgo | The Amsoil white paper showed that it scared 4 balls.
 
I have no doubt that there are plenty of examples of 100K+ mile (especially evos from the 80s and 90s) out there that used HD360. I know there is at least one 400k evo out there that MAY have used HD 360, I don't know. That was in the era when HD oil was pretty popular. I can't provide any documentation and these guys probably are not BITOG'rs. It will do just fine assuming proper maintenance, care, and lack of abuse/neglect. I also would say it is not the king of the hill when it comes to protection in 275 to 300 degree operating temps for example. Normal use, normal OCIs, with single digit wear numbers there is nothing not to like (price aside).
 
With the factory recommended oci of 5,000 miles regardless of whose oil is used, makes me think Harley knows their oil can provide as much protection as the motor needs. Police departments go by the book when it comes to maintenance, and they get used harder then privately owned bikes.And most use Harley's oil. And if they couldn't handle long periods of idling without overheating, they would have been bagged along time ago. I know there's alot of choices powered by big advertising budgets, but if their oil has three times the molybdenum,zinc,and phosphorus which all at oil change time gets flushed into the drum, how does that provide any extra measurable protection? People may not like who makes it,or what it costs, but from what I seen thru the years it can do the job. To say another brand of oil is better is easy, but to break it down side by side and prove it? I havent seen it yet.,,
 
I agree... the HD branded oil works just fine. You can't knock the performance, only the price.

It's around 9 dollars a quart in these parts now. The reason Harley has raised the price is they charge BIG BUCKS to change the oil in the bikes of the "great unwashed." (the folks who are terrified that they'll mess up their bikes or else break a nail by changing their own oil)...

...so HD has to somehow attempt to justify 175 dollar oil changes. No kidding, that's what they're charging in these parts. Less than 5 quarts of lubricant to change all three holes, a filter... and a royal reaming.

So they ran the price of Victor Hugo's butt lube and duck butter up to 9 dollars a quart for the cheap and squishy stuff to help the hand wringers swallow the high cost of a "GENUINE~!~!"
shocked2.gif
Harley oil change.

Havoline is almost certainly better, and about a third the cost. See my Havoline 20W50 UOA's posted in the archives here (on a '94 Evolution)... and also the VR1 UOA's, they're notably better than the HD 360 UOA's I've seen.

But the HD oil is more than good enough. Most Harley engines (contrary to unstudied opinions posted elsewhere in these pages) will go well over 100,000 miles without an overhaul, and most of them do it on the Citgo made HD stuff. :)

Dan
 
FTM, I assume when you refer to better uoa's that a voa was performed first,then without mixing brands or types, the oil's were used then the remaining additives and wear metals were measured. And the numbers compared to each other.From what I've seen most uoa's are not done at the mfgrs recommended oci's, usually at less mileage. Some oil's like Redline have crazy high amounts of molybdenum that can't be doing anything for a motor that doesn't require that amount. Harley on the other hand doesn't feel their motors need much if any molybdenum. Their voa's usally show 0- 2ppm, and that may be leftover from the previous oil of a different brand.I guess the real question is ,would you feel confident running Havoline or vr1 oils to the factory recommended oci? In a hot climate and maybe exceed the oci without fear of motor damage?.,,
 
Yes, I would feel confident with either the Havoline, or the VR1. The flash point shows a lot about how robust the base of an oil is (assuming it's not fuel diluted).

I agree with your premise that the HD oil is plenty good, I just think that you can get better oil for less than half what they charge for the HD branded stuff.

Here is a UOA with VR1 and 1 quart of Valvoline Synpower... probably still the best UOA in the archives here, from my friend Larry's 2003 TC engine:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1214567

Dan
 
So have you run straight Havoline or straight vr1 for 5,000 miles unmixed,and had a uoa done? Your friends uoa looks good but, at less then 3,000 miles it should.To me, taking an oil to the factory oci is the real test of how it hangs in there.Without regard as to who makes the oil or how much it costs. If mobil 1 or Amsoil cut there additive package by 50%,do you think it would it make a measurable difference in wear after 5,000 miles or 50,000 miles compared to other brand oils? I'm thinking no. As they advertise more anti wear compounds higher this or that, makes your motor run cooler and quieter. After years of hearing this then watching people use every low cost no name oil made,and having their motors last just as long, you have to realize its all sales hooey.
 
HD does oil changes at 2500 miles under current service plans, fwiw.

"After years of hearing this then watching people use every low cost no name oil made,and having their motors last just as long, you have to realize its all sales hooey."

I agree... :)

Dan
 
HD oil may be a bit overpriced but you can use it with confidence and not have to second guess if your choice of oil is holding up. Down here in Tx the HD360 is $6.49 per qt and the VR1 is $4.99 at Autozone. Its not realy worth saving a few bucks on the VR1 when I still go to Harley to get my filter. I realy dont care who makes HD oil,Do you? It works good and there aint any sales hoopla going on with it. UOA's have shown plenty of proof that Synthetic's dont give you any real world advantages over Dino.
 
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It's kinda been proven that synthetic oils tends to flow easier at colder temps, have higher flash points, and are overloaded with additives, so it can go up to twice the factory recommended oci's. The question is, are you willing to pay the premium for that?. I'm not promoting Harley's oil or anything remotely like that, just saying if it covers every operating condition thrown at a Harley motor,and doesn't cause premature engine wear, is paying top dollar for synthetic oil when your not a real road warrior, getting you anything or just separating you from your cash?.,,
 
Actually, H-D oil, either variety, is mediocre oil.
For the price you can get much better product.
HDEO oils, 15W-40, 15W-50 Mobil-1, other quality oils as well as expensive boutique oils like Amsoil are all better performing oil.
Depending on how many miles you plan on riding each year, conventional or synthetic is really a matter of personal choice.
 
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