2004 Saturn Ion Transmission Fluid

[blkblt412]

I've spent the last several days trying to answer this question for myself and would like some input. I currently drive a 2004 Saturn Ion with a manual transmission and 135K miles on it (owned since new). I would like to change the transmission fluid for my own peace of mind since I plan on keeping it until at least 200K miles, maybe even longer. Daily driving is usually 90% highway/10% city. The current fluid is factory filled Dexron III; I bought some Valvoline Maxlife ATF a few days ago, because of cost ($3.50/qt) and their reputation for quality, which says it is spec'd for Dexron VI and earlier. However after further research I realized the viscosity appears to be lower than those fluids which are designed to be Dex III replacements (and not Dex VI). Here are the fluids I have looked at using and their respective viscosities at 40 and 100 degrees centrigrade:

Valvoline Maxlife ATF (Synthetic)
40 degrees - 28.18
100 degrees - 6.11

Valvoline Dex/Merc ATF (Conventional)
40 degrees - 37.1
100 degrees - 7.46

Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF (Synthetic, of course)
40 degrees - 36.3
100 degrees - 7.4

Royal Purple Max ATF (Synthetic)
40 degrees - 35.0
100 degrees - 7.5

My questions are:

1) Should I use one of the higher viscosity ATFs since I have a manual transmission?

2) Are they any other aspects to this I am missing/should be looking at?

Thank you in advance, I've been reading posts on BITOG for the last year and a half which have educated me lots on oils in general. I'm sure the answer would be more clear to me were this an AT in my car, and perhaps I'm just making this more complicated than I should.

 

[beast3300]

This may fall under a similar situation that my buddy ran into. He has a 99 Z28 6 speed that specs Dex3. What ended up happening is, GM sells a manual transmission fluid with a fancy number that is essentially Dex3. So....I would say go to the dealer and get whatever fluid they pull up on the computer.

 

[mechanicx]

I would not use the Maxlife or any Dex VI suitable ATF. Like Beast said GM says to not use Dex VI in manuals.

 

[blkblt412]

Quote:
This may fall under a similar situation that my buddy ran into. He has a 99 Z28 6 speed that specs Dex3. What ended up happening is, GM sells a manual transmission fluid with a fancy number that is essentially Dex3. So....I would say go to the dealer and get whatever fluid they pull up on the computer.


I thought about doing that. I have also read on the Saturn forums that some people have used Mobil 1 Synthetic with good results or Redline D4 ATF (marketed specifically towards manual transmissions). I think I will call them and see what price they quote.

Quote:
I would not use the Maxlife or any Dex VI suitable ATF. Like Beast said GM says to not use Dex VI in manuals.


Ok, I will definitely stay away from Dex VI. I also noticed after my original post that the replacement fluids which do NOT spec for Dex VI are the higher viscosity.

 

[blkblt412]

Called the dealership and they have what I need (different part # now but same stuff). I guess I should have just done that in the first place. Thanks for the help!

 

[beast3300]

Same stuff as ___________?

 

[blkblt412]

Quote:
Same stuff as ___________?

Sorry, should have been more specific. They do have the correct manual transmission fluid but because of discontinued production of Saturns it has a completely different part number now. Same transmission fluid, different part number.

I did pick up the correct manual transmission fluid from the dealership. As a side note, in case this thread helps someone else, read the back of the bottle(s) BEFORE you purchase. They initially tried to sell me Dex VI which specifically states that it "should not be used for manual transmissions." After I politely pointed that out they went and got the correct fluid which is manual transmission fluid.

Thanks again for the help!

 

[beast3300]

Your welcome! The correct stuff is super important. They did the same thing with my buddy. They tried to give him Dex6. Glad your good to go now.

 

[unDummy]

Any non-universal Dex/Merc ATF clones could've been used, as well as some of the MTF/MTL's that are out there.

 

[blkblt412]

I'll remember that for future reference. Although to be honest the price per quart from the dealership actually seemed pretty reasonable to me, about $8.60/qt, which seems pretty competitive if not better than the prices of some of the alternatives I saw (Dex 3 replcement only mind you).

 

[Maritime Storm]

All that flavour of GM's Manual Transmission fluid is Dexron III that meets Ford's Type H specification(I know how weird that sounds, but it is true). Their are some Dexron/Mercon fluids on the market still meet that old spec, Shell makes one for Canadian Tire("Certified" label) and Irving Oil's Transflo is another.

 

[blkblt412]

That's helpful to know, this is the first time I've ever decided to change my own transmission fluid. There are so many options out there that claim various compatibilities when it comes to tranny fluids, it amazes me that people can keep track of what is compatible with various OEM fluids.

 

[unDummy]

blkblt412, what was the PN that you purchased?

GM's MT fluid replaced DexronIII-H, when DexronVI came out. The H is GM's last revision of DexronIII and not to be confused with Ford TypeH ATF.

$8.60 a quart is robbery for a mineral DexIII ATF. Sorry, I would've bought ANY of the full synthetic equivalents like Mobil1, Amsoil, Redline, Royalpurple......
And, if I wanted a DexIIIh equivalent, I would've bought any of the store brand generic stuff for
Here's a UOA of the GM 88861800/88861801 that replaced DexIIIh for manuals/xfercases:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1613902

There is also a GM Saturn PN 21018899, along with various others. 21018899 was used to quiet down some noisy manuals that were originally filled with DexIII ATF.

 

[JustinH]

I have a 03 saturn ion with the manual trans.

I dumped the lubricant at about 40k miles this past year.

It came out looking like new.

I replaced with Mobil 1 ATF, and did not notice any change in shift performance, but I didn't have a problem to start with.

What would be considered a "noisy manual transmission". Are you talking about grinding in between shifts, or the normal sound of gears when getting the car going in first and second gear?

 

[blkblt412]

Quote:
$8.60 a quart is robbery for a mineral DexIII ATF. Sorry, I would've bought ANY of the full synthetic equivalents like Mobil1, Amsoil, Redline, Royalpurple......
And, if I wanted a DexIIIh equivalent, I would've bought any of the store brand generic stuff for div>

I intend to learn from this experience as I've never done a transmission fluid replacement before. I agree that I probably could have done better elsewhere (and with a synthetic) but since this is all new to me I wanted to make sure I got the correct fluid this time, even though it is conventional. I don't normally buy parts from the dealership and I intend to purchase a better product next time around for a better price per quart. Dealership part# 88861800

Quote:
What would be considered a "noisy manual transmission". Are you talking about grinding in between shifts, or the normal sound of gears when getting the car going in first and second gear?

I never said anything about the transmission being noisy or having problems. My reason for changing the fluid is that it is still the FF at almost 135K miles.

 

[blkblt412]

Undummy

I should have added earlier that the price comparisons I did were only against other mineral oil based MTFs. The synthetic replacements on the other hand ranged anywhere from about the same price as the GM replacement (Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF) to a few dollars more per quart. I also did my initial shopping online to find something before I went looking in the stores, that way I would have had a specific product or a few products in mind to choose from based on the available selections.