A Reason to AVOID Top Tier Gas?

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The ethanol hatred has run amuck all over!

How does 10% ethanol make you get 30% worse mileage when 85% ethanol in a non-flex fuel gets only 25% less mileage?
 
specific: 2005 Silverado 5.3, routinely got 19 mpg and went to 17's when ethanol was added.

2006 300C SRT8, routinely averaged 17.5 went to 15's with ethanol added.

Big kicker is it added about 5-700 dollars to an average monthly fuel bill here (we run a fleet).

I am not a fan.
 
I recently spoke with the owner of a local, single-location repair shop. He has been in business for over 40 years and has a great reputation. He is also drives Fords as I recently began doing. He is of the opinion that most problems he sees in his shop are gas-related. He is a firm believer in the top-teir brands as preventing carbon fouling of plugs, intake/exhaust, etc. All we have here is Shell and Chevron.

I've been using Sunoco (non-top teir in the US, but top teir in Canada--???) and keep pretty good records. I've switched to Shell and will see what happens with mileage/performance.

And yes, ethanol sucks.
 
Most people naturally hate ethanol because it contains less energy than 100% petro fuel. Usually the loss is around 3% for a fuel that has 10% ethanol. Most people seem to suffer more in the range of 4% or 5% but it varies per car, driving styles, etc. I've seen magazines like Car & Driver and Consumer Reports lose between 30%-40% with E85. I personally would avoid it at all costs. Luckily, in Oklahoma we have many stations without the E10 and that's where I take my GS400. Also, I always use Top Tier gas. I gas up at Phillips 66 where the 87 and 89 octane gas is E10 but the premium isn't.
 
How does one know without a doubt that the gas that comes into ur town or wherever has a perfectly clean line system and no junk is in the gas.
 
You buy gas at a station that sells a lot of fuel and take your chances.

Worked for me for MANY decades. NEVER a single problem in MANY miles in many vehicles.

Bill
 
My dad has a Sunoco Gas-station and the pumps have spin-on filters on them that filter down to very tiny particles. I forget the micron rating but it's smaller than your standard oil filter.

If something that small gets into your tank it will have to put up with your fuel filter and/or not cause a problem because it's too small and makes it through the injector.
 
Originally Posted By: cchase
I hesitate to mention this because I rarely put any stock in peoples mpg claims online, but...

I switched over from "whatever's cheapest" (usually Mobil) to Shell 2 tanks ago and with the same driving style, speed, and routes went up 3 mpg on my GTO (premium). It's enough to keep me sticking with the Shell.

Around here there's no such thing as non-E10 fuel.


Shell V-Power (93 octane here), is one of the best gas types I can put in my vehicles. Does great in my old 5.0 EFI. Otherwise, I like 89/93 Texaco with Techron, which also runs just as good in my vehicles as the Shell.

The only Shell I use is the V-power.

And good luck avoiding ethanol. Some stations that claim they are "100% Gas" are lying, too.

ONE TIME did I find a station that claimed it, and it was true. Tried it in three vehicles. I had forgotten the mpg loss when they started adding ethanol until I tried this gas. It seemed to last forever. And my old truck is picky (1986 EFI), and it really ran smoother with that gas.

BTW, [censored], my truck is so picky, I always run at least 89 octane, and sometimes 93, so I have a mix of 89 and 93. Just 87 gives me a little bit of hesitation when I give it gas sometimes. The 93 almost takes it away from a good quality gas station.
 
Just some questions on Top Tier Gasoline....

With this "Winter Blend" of Gasoline, is the ethanol in all the grades of gas from Premium down to Regular?

I made a trip to DC, VA recently, and all the gasoline at even the top tier stations, had a mention of ethanol at the pumps.

If you buy Shell Premium gas, even though your vehicle only calls for regular gasoline, are you really guaranteed that you are not getting ethanol from the pump?

What about some of the local/regional gasoline stations that are not on the top tier list. Some of these use suppliers who might use top tier gasoline, even though it is not posted at the pump.
 
What makes you think that Shell V-Power doesn't have ethanol. V-Power just claims to have 5x the minimum detergent level required by the Feds IIRC.

I know it has ethanol in my area. It's also cost much more than the TT station two blocks from it. So I stopped using it.

And just because you see a tanker stop at a Shell, Gulf, and Ma's Gas and Puke, that doesn't mean they are all getting the same gas. Being that tanker trucks have several compartments and outlets
 
Top Tier gas does not necessarily have ethanol in it---it depends greatly in which state you live. In Oklahoma you can get Top Tier gas that is ethanol free. That's what my Lexus which requires premium gets everytime with one exception and there was a mileage loss with that experiment.
 
I don't have any major effect using winter blend gas.

I used to warm up my car for 10 minutes in the morning. mpg was 31.

If I warm up for 2-3 minutes, mpg was 32.7.
 
Originally Posted By: Bamaro
Originally Posted By: cchase
I hesitate to mention this because I rarely put any stock in peoples mpg claims online, but...

I switched over from "whatever's cheapest" (usually Mobil) to Shell 2 tanks ago and with the same driving style, speed, and routes went up 3 mpg on my GTO (premium). It's enough to keep me sticking with the Shell.

Did you factor in warmer temps?
Or the fact that Mobil is ALSO "Top Tier"?
 
I used to haul gasoline & diesel. Many terminals have what's called interchange agreements. Other "majors" can pull out of another major's terminal. This is done to save running an empty tanker back to its own home terminal to reload when there's another closer, saving time & miles. This is how it works, all the terminals have base 87 & 93 (93 in east, as I know in the west premium is 91) and maybe 89. 89 is really 1 part 93 2 parts 87. The old Mobil terminal in East Boston worked that way. If you wanted to load 1000 gal of 89, the loading arm/manifold would pump 334 gal of 93, then stop a valve would close, another open & pump in 666 of 87. As far as different brands, the base stock was in the big tanks in the tank farm, additive is added at the rack by a 1" line right at the loading arm. Depending on what card you put in the card reader, determined what additive package you got. That Mobil East Boston plant, I could pull Mobil, Citgo or Agway from the same place, just depended what card was in the reader. The other brands had a tank in the farm w/ just their proprietary additive blend stored. Hope this clears some of the "mystery" up. ..and I agree, E anything sucks, cuts MPG & makes agri/corn lobby rich!
 
Originally Posted By: RSKi
I used to haul gasoline & diesel. Many terminals have what's called interchange agreements. Other "majors" can pull out of another major's terminal. This is done to save running an empty tanker back to its own home terminal to reload when there's another closer, saving time & miles. This is how it works, all the terminals have base 87 & 93 (93 in east, as I know in the west premium is 91) and maybe 89. 89 is really 1 part 93 2 parts 87. The old Mobil terminal in East Boston worked that way. If you wanted to load 1000 gal of 89, the loading arm/manifold would pump 334 gal of 93, then stop a valve would close, another open & pump in 666 of 87. As far as different brands, the base stock was in the big tanks in the tank farm, additive is added at the rack by a 1" line right at the loading arm. Depending on what card you put in the card reader, determined what additive package you got. That Mobil East Boston plant, I could pull Mobil, Citgo or Agway from the same place, just depended what card was in the reader. The other brands had a tank in the farm w/ just their proprietary additive blend stored. Hope this clears some of the "mystery" up. ..and I agree, E anything sucks, cuts MPG & makes agri/corn lobby rich!

TiredTrucker has explained this is what he did when he used to handle loads of fuel.
 
Originally Posted By: Scott2373
Follow the link below and look at the small print on the bottom of the banner and you will see, "TOP TIER is a trademark of General Motors".
http://www.76.com/OurGas.aspx

A US Patent and Trademark Office search shows pretty much the same. However, it looks like the registration was originally by Chevron and then assigned to GM.

Quote:
Word Mark TOP TIER AUTOMAKER'S DESIGNATED DETERGENT GASOLINE
Goods and Services IC 004. US 001 006 015. G & S: Fuel, namely, gasoline. FIRST USE: 20050601. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20050601
Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS
Design Search Code 24.07.07 - Prize ribbons; Ribbons, prize
26.01.07 - Circles with a decorative border, including scalloped, ruffled and zig-zag edges
26.01.17 - Circles, two concentric; Concentric circles, two; Two concentric circles
26.01.21 - Circles that are totally or partially shaded.
Trademark Search Facility Classification Code ART-24.07 Coins, medals
NOTATION-SYMBOLS Notation Symbols such as Non-Latin characters,punctuation and mathematical signs,zodiac signs,prescription marks
SHAPES-BAR-BANDS Designs with bar, bands or lines
SHAPES-CIRCLE Circle figures or designs including semi-circles and incomplete circles
SHAPES-COLORS-3-OR-MORE Design listing or lined for three or more colors
SHAPES-MISC Miscellaneous shaped designs
Serial Number 78693812
Filing Date August 16, 2005
Current Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1B
Published for Opposition July 3, 2007
Registration Number 3823246
Registration Date July 20, 2010
Owner (REGISTRANT) CHEVRON INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY LLC LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY DELAWARE 6001 BOLLINGER CANYON ROAD SAN RAMON CALIFORNIA 94583

(LAST LISTED OWNER) GENERAL MOTORS LLC LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY DELAWARE 300 RENAISSANCE CENTER DETROIT MICHIGAN 482653000

Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record Christopher Chaudoir
Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "TOP TIER", "AUTOMAKERS", "DESIGNATED" AND "DETERGENT GASOLINE" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN
Description of Mark The color(s) red, white and blue is/are claimed as a feature of the mark. The mark consists of red circle with scalloped edges with a blue ribbon across the circle and the words "Top Tier" in white inside of the blue ribbon and the words "Automakers' Designated Detergent Gasoline" in white surrounding the blue ribbon.
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE


There are also lots of different trademarks using the phrase "Top Tier". As long as it describes another product, I don't think it matters with TM registration.
 
I always get a smile when I see the negative comments about ethanol in gas. I have been using E10 since the late 70's and E85 for the last year. I have never had any issues and the stuff doesn't whack my mpg that bad. Depending on price differentials, it sometimes, even with the lower mpg, offers a lower cost per mile. I have used E10 in every small engine I have owned also, with no detrimental effects. Everything from pressure washers, portable generators, lawn mowers, etc.

To be fair, if regular gas was priced so that it was the most cost efficient per mile, I would use it. But it hasn't been is a long, long time around my area. Higher mpg is neat on the surface, but the actual cost per mile of operation impresses me more. I would rather get 14 mpg in my pickup with E85 at a cost per mile of around 20.5 cents a mile than getting 17 mpg on regular gas at a cost per mile of 21.5 cents per mile. Whichever fuel gives me good performance at the lowest cost per mile get to ride in my fuel tank.

Either way, there is no "top tier" fuel sold in my neck of the woods. I would have to drive 45-50 miles away to get the stuff. Not going to happen any time soon.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
To be fair, if regular gas was priced so that it was the most cost efficient per mile, I would use it. But it hasn't been is a long, long time around my area. Higher mpg is neat on the surface, but the actual cost per mile of operation impresses me more. I would rather get 14 mpg in my pickup with E85 at a cost per mile of around 20.5 cents a mile than getting 17 mpg on regular gas at a cost per mile of 21.5 cents per mile. Whichever fuel gives me good performance at the lowest cost per mile get to ride in my fuel tank.

Range might be an issue. I remember Edmunds was trying to do a fuel economy test between LA and Vegas. They even went so far as to siphon out all the gasoline to make sure that it was only E85 in there. Their big worry was actually that with E85 they were pushing it on range. The other issue for a fair test is that you won't have a good idea of how much ethanol is in there for a proper comparison. I've seen it listed as anywhere from 51 to 83%.
 
And that would be a concern on a road trip. That is the beauty of a flex fuel vehicle. The principle would still apply, the lowest cost per mile fuel, based on what fuel is available, gets to ride in my fuel tank. If E85 wasn't available, would use the next best thing.

Right now in my area, winter fuel variances come into play. E10 is 2.99, regular is 3.22, and E85 is 2.59. With winter fuel, the E85 is usually 70%. The differences I have experienced, getting lower mpg with winter fuel of the E10 and regular variety, and the mileage I get with E85 (70%) is only 1-2 mpg difference. Getting an average of 15 mpg, 5.3L in Silverado living rural with gravel road, 2 lane paved, and some in town driving, in winter with E10 and 13.5 on E85(70%). The cost per mile using E10 is a hair under 20 cents a mile. With E85 (70%) it is a little less than a penny a mile cheaper. So , winter or summer, at the present price differences, E85 is still the most cost effective per mile in my area.
 
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