Cannot find service interval for Audi coolant

[dparm]

I cannot find any sort of change interval for the engine coolant on my 2005 Audi S4. Every 5k service mentions checking for leaks and topping it off. The car has 57k and for all I can tell, it has the original coolant.

I added half a bottle of Water Wetter before the season's first auto-x and that's it.

Should I let it sit? This is G12, BTW.

 

[beast3300]

I believe VW/Audi are "fill for life." So that basically means the coolant is good until you have to replace a waterpump or hose etc.

 

[mechanicx]

I think G12 corresponds to glysantin G30 an OAT coolant pretty similar to Dexcool. I would treat it like that and look at a 5 year or so service interval. I'd take the manufactures lifetime recommendation the same way as lifetime ATF.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I think G12 corresponds to glysantin G30 an OAT coolant pretty similar to Dexcool. I would treat it like that and look at a 5 year or so service interval. I'd take the manufactures lifetime recommendation the same way as lifetime ATF.


Considering the price of the Pentosin, one could probably do a complete flush and fill every two years with Dexcool or the equivalent and still wind up cheaper than 5 years on Pentosin.

The Prestone All Makes, as per our previous thread, is serving me well. Besides, that and actual Dexcool are the only things I can cheaply and readily get in a concentrate up here, rather than 50/50. 50/50 is fine for top up, but for a flush and fill with our winters, not a chance.

 

[John_Corey]

Hi Dan,

Your Audi's coolant will last for the period between water pump replacement. New metal components in the cooling system, namely the water pump and the thermostat, require to be "primed" by new coolant, and the used coolant is not up to this task. Water pump replacement should be part of the comprehensive timing belt job. This service should be performed by the prudent owner every 75k miles or every 5 years, whichever occurs first.

The proper coolant for your vehicle is either G12 Plus or G12 Plus Plus. G12 has been discontinued a year or two ago.

How do you know Water Wetter is compatible with the G12 you are currently using?

I hope this helps!

Cheers,
-J

Originally Posted By: dparm
I cannot find any sort of change interval for the engine coolant on my 2005 Audi S4. Every 5k service mentions checking for leaks and topping it off. The car has 57k and for all I can tell, it has the original coolant.

I added half a bottle of Water Wetter before the season's first auto-x and that's it.

Should I let it sit? This is G12, BTW.

 

[John_Corey]

Hi Garak,

One liter G12 Plus sells for a bit under $10, one liter G12 Plus Plus goes for under $13. If an Audi owner busts his budget by spending $40 to $52 every five years, a sum which comes to a miniscule 2.1 to 2.8 cents per day over 5 years, then maybe he should have bought another marque that tolerates less costly coolant.

Dex-Cool is a questionable substitute for a coolant of the G12 variety. G-05 would be a more suitable replacement for G12. In any case, saving a few dollars on coolant seem unwise. After all, the timing belt replacement, of which the coolant replacement is part, already costs a bundle, with the OEM coolant adding an insignificant expense.

Cheers,
-J

Originally Posted By: Garak

Considering the price of the Pentosin, one could probably do a complete flush and fill every two years with Dexcool or the equivalent and still wind up cheaper than 5 years on Pentosin.

The Prestone All Makes, as per our previous thread, is serving me well. Besides, that and actual Dexcool are the only things I can cheaply and readily get in a concentrate up here, rather than 50/50. 50/50 is fine for top up, but for a flush and fill with our winters, not a chance.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: John_Corey
One liter G12 Plus sells for a bit under $10, one liter G12 Plus Plus goes for under $13. If an Audi owner busts his budget by spending $40 to $52 every five years, a sum which comes to a miniscule 2.1 to 2.8 cents per day over 5 years, then maybe he should have bought another marque that tolerates less costly coolant.

Dex-Cool is a questionable substitute for a coolant of the G12 variety. G-05 would be a more suitable replacement for G12. In any case, saving a few dollars on coolant seem unwise. After all, the timing belt replacement, of which the coolant replacement is part, already costs a bundle, with the OEM coolant adding an insignificant expense.


In the States, G12 is relatively cheap. Up here, it is difficult to come by, even on line. My supplier is currently out of stock, and charges about 50% more than the price you quoted.

G-05 would be a good replacement, I agree. However, getting pure G-05 up here is not easy. One Walmart used to carry it; none of them do except in 50/50. Ford and Chrysler do, of course, but at the cost of over $32 per four litre jug; Walmart was carrying it for about $14 for Zerex G-05. 50/50 is not a suitable option for our climate.

The latest Audi coolants, which are back speced to older models, are essentially dexclones. The Prestone All Makes is essentially a dexclone, too. It is phosphate free, as required by the owner's manual, which, of course, does not require Audi OEM coolant for obvious reasons. It's also silicate free, unlike G-05. Say what you will about dexcool and its clones; however, they are notoriously easy on water pumps. With the Audi having a sealed cooling system, I have few concerns using a dexclone coolant in it. Zerex, for what it's worth, recommends it.

Zerex's recommendations do correspond to Audi's changing standards. Zerex recommends G-05 for the older ones (like mine). For the newer ones, they recommend dexcool. Those happen to be the ones that call for the newer Pentosin fluids. Since Audi back speced the older models for the newer fluids, it's a safe assumption that the dexcool or its clones will also work.

With respect to the timing belt, it's not that expensive of a job. I get the part for $20 and do it myself. As for Pentosin, I'd gladly use it if it were reasonably available. Dexcool and the like meet the requirements. I'm simply not going to spend double the price to have a Pentosin label on a bottle of dexcool, just like I'm not going to spend double the price to have a Motorcraft or Mopar label on a what is actually a bottle of Zerex G-05 (since Zerex supplies it to both companies).

It's not about busting one's budget; it's about spending sensibly. Most parts I get are OEM and from a reputable, cheap supplier. I can get Mahle, Mann, and Bosch oil filters for under $5 a piece. I use Pentosin steering fluid, since there are few appropriate alternatives (other than Bilstein fluid). I am not, however, going to be going on a wild goose chase to obtain Pentosin engine oil or Pentosin antifreeze when other equally suitable alternatives are available.

Secondly, if someone has an emergency, the Pentosin may not be available. Dexcool will be.

 

[John_Corey]

Hi Garak,

Originally Posted By: Garak

In the States, G12 is relatively cheap. Up here, it is difficult to come by, even on line. My supplier is currently out of stock, and charges about 50% more than the price you quoted.

Dan is from Illinois, I believe.

Originally Posted By: Garak

G-05 would be a good replacement, I agree. However, getting pure G-05 up here is not easy. One Walmart used to carry it; none of them do except in 50/50. Ford and Chrysler do, of course, but at the cost of over $32 per four litre jug; Walmart was carrying it for about $14 for Zerex G-05. 50/50 is not a suitable option for our climate.

Dan is still not from Canada.

Originally Posted By: Garak

The latest Audi coolants, which are back speced to older models, are essentially dexclones. The Prestone All Makes is essentially a dexclone, too. It is phosphate free, as required by the owner's manual, which, of course, does not require Audi OEM coolant for obvious reasons. It's also silicate free, unlike G-05. Say what you will about dexcool and its clones; however, they are notoriously easy on water pumps. With the Audi having a sealed cooling system, I have few concerns using a dexclone coolant in it. Zerex, for what it's worth, recommends it.

In how far Dex-Cool matches G12, G12 Plus, and G12-Plus Plus is speculation. All these coolants may be similar or even almost identical. Again, even if you can save 50% by buying less expensive coolant, considering how trivial this amount is when compared to the operating and maintenance cost, is it worth the risk?

Originally Posted By: Garak

Zerex's recommendations do correspond to Audi's changing standards. Zerex recommends G-05 for the older ones (like mine). For the newer ones, they recommend dexcool. Those happen to be the ones that call for the newer Pentosin fluids. Since Audi back speced the older models for the newer fluids, it's a safe assumption that the dexcool or its clones will also work.

I do not find the expression "safe assumption" very confidence aspiring!

Originally Posted By: Garak

With respect to the timing belt, it's not that expensive of a job. I get the part for $20 and do it myself.


You need the timing belt, the accessory belt, the thermostat, a couple of idle roller and a belt tensioner, RTV sealant, and coolant. The parts alone are $200 to $250. If you have the TB service performed at a shop, you are in for 8-12 hours labor at $85 to $140 per hour labor. Do you replace really only the timing belt?

Originally Posted By: Garak

As for Pentosin, I'd gladly use it if it were reasonably available.

I don't know about Dan, but I can find Pentosin at my local 76 gas station.

Originally Posted By: Garak

Dexcool and the like meet the requirements.

What exactly are those requirements? I only know VW and Audi require part number XXXXXX.

Originally Posted By: Garak

I'm simply not going to spend double the price to have a Pentosin label on a bottle of dexcool, just like I'm not going to spend double the price to have a Motorcraft or Mopar label on a what is actually a bottle of Zerex G-05 (since Zerex supplies it to both companies).

The Pentosin products I buy are "Made in Germany." Does Zerex produce in Germany?

Originally Posted By: Garak

It's not about busting one's budget; it's about spending sensibly.


I consider buying the OEM parts and supplies for a $40k vehicle sensible. The additional cost of OEM coolant is certainly marginal, as I have already explained.

Originally Posted By: Garak

Most parts I get are OEM and from a reputable, cheap supplier. I can get Mahle, Mann, and Bosch oil filters for under $5 a piece. I use Pentosin steering fluid, since there are few appropriate alternatives (other than Bilstein fluid). I am not, however, going to be going on a wild goose chase to obtain Pentosin engine oil or Pentosin antifreeze when other equally suitable alternatives are available.

You are certainly at liberty to do whatever you want to your vehicle.

Originally Posted By: Garak

Secondly, if someone has an emergency, the Pentosin may not be available. Dexcool will be.

Let us hope the Dex-Cool will not cause the emergency.

Cheers,
-J

 

[dparm]

I guess it doesn't hurt to drain the system. The car is a 2005 and I can't find any mention of the fluid ever being changed.

Honestly, $10 and an hour of my time on a coolant flush is fine. This is a $53,000 car we are talking about here and I want it to last.

What is the difference between G12 and G12+?

 

[Dan55]

As mechanicx has stated G12 is essetially Dexcool.... Havoline Extended Life Anti-Freeze/Coolant DEX-COOL® is recommended for use in the
cooling systems of all types of automotive engines. This product meets ASTM D 3306 for
automotive service and ASTM D 4985 for heavy duty diesel service. It meets GM 6277M, Ford
WSS-M97B44-D, Volkswagen/Audi G-12, and most other European OEM specifications.

 

[scurvy]

Originally Posted By: dparm
What is the difference between G12 and G12+?


G12+ added backwards compatibility with G11 (blue), IIRC. Please don't use Rust-kool or any of the Dexclones (all makes, all models). G12/+/++ is not expensive and it's an excellent coolant with a long track record unlike the other stuff. No service is needed until waterpump replacement.

 

[dparm]

Great info, thanks.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: dparm
I guess it doesn't hurt to drain the system. The car is a 2005 and I can't find any mention of the fluid ever being changed.

Honestly, $10 and an hour of my time on a coolant flush is fine. This is a $53,000 car we are talking about here and I want it to last.

What is the difference between G12 and G12+?


G12 is OAT similar to Dexcool and G12+ is silicated OAT. G05 is not as similar to G12 as Dexcool is. And I think the only thing G05 and G12+ have in common is silicates. G12+ is kind of akin to Japanese extended life but substituting silicates for phosphate. Your Audi would need to be OAT validated if calls for G12 or G12+. And it should have a pressurized reservior. I'm with Dan and Garak on this. I don't blame anyone for paying 4x as much for the OE but I think Dexcool would work fine with no issues, or even Peak Global. I'd put a preference on Havoline Dexcool, then Zerex then any other dexcool.

 

[dparm]

OEM coolant is not that expensive. The Pentosin stuff is barely more than OEM.


OEM G12++ = $8.66/L
OEM G12 = $5.81/L

Pentosin Pentofrost G12++ = $9.59/L


At 50/50, the Pentosin is actually inferior in boilover performance to the OEM G12 (228 vs 264). Motul's Optimal Ultra is 277. I don't have the information for G12++ though.

 

[mechanicx]

Well roughly $40/gal for coolant seems kind of expensive to me when I can get Dexcool for about $10/gal. I don't believe there is any pressing need for the OE coolant as I've explained. But in relation to the price of cars and other OE coolants like Asian it is not that expensive, so I can understand getting it.

I think Ford's concentrate version of Mazda Fl-22 HOAT is a better coolant at a better price, but Euros are very against phosphates with hard water. And the Asian are against silicates. It's kind of cooky IMO. The USA has used coolant with both silicates and phosphates in all these cars for years in the past, and now colant without any silicates or phosphates.

 

[dparm]

The Pentosin stuff says it does contain silicates whereas the Motul stuff says it does not. They are compatible (G12 and G12++ are mixable).

 

[mechanicx]

I think G12 and G12++ are mixable along with dexcool all being pretty similar OAT. I would not want the Motul stuff if it does not contain silicates because the silicates would be the main selling point of G12++ in my mind. If I weren't getting any fast-acting silicates, might as well run dexcool.

 

[dparm]

The Motul meets G12, not G12++, hence the lack of silicates.

 

[gamefoo21]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I think G12 and G12++ are mixable along with dexcool all being pretty similar OAT. I would not want the Motul stuff if it does not contain silicates because the silicates would be the main selling point of G12++ in my mind. If I weren't getting any fast-acting silicates, might as well run dexcool.


Dexcool eats VW cooling systems.

Dexcool is similar but the plasticizer in Deathcool just loves the plastic VW uses.

Don't be like the mechanic shop, and say not our fault the jug said, after Deathcool killed a temp sensor by chewing through it's housing... :|

Also I go to the VW dealer and I buy my G12 pure 4L for $25. Why cut corners for almost no savings? Also Deathcool doesn't do Diesels very well and it rots iron blocks if there are any air leaks. G12 is superior in both of these regards.

 

[mechanicx]

If Dexcool ate the plastics used how would the VW OAT coolants with sebacic (which is also used in Havoline Dexcool and also a "plasticizer") not? Sounds like old wives' tales not backed by testing or others experience with it.