Anyone using 15W-40 HDEO in their lawnmowers?
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i used to run rotella 15w40 in my old cub with a 13 hp kohler it seemed to be the only oil that didnt dissapear. today i run rotella 10w30 in all my ope. seems to hold up really well with one year oci. and start fairly easy in cold weather. i quit buying the expensive kohler oil ($7 a quart) in favor of rotella 10-30 $12 a gallon and it seems to have quieted down the kohler valves.
Most homeowners don't check or change their oil anyways.
A 15W-40 HDEO is one of several good choices.
I have a Briggs 20 HP V-Twin and Briggs recommends a 10W-30 conventional/5W-30 synthetic or a 10W-30 synthetic.
B&S says not to extend past 25 hrs if severe service or 50 hrs normally even with a synthetic oil as the engines have a tendency to shear and fuel dilute.
My choices has been Royal Purple 10W-30 which is great and German Castrol 0W-30 which is great as well. UOA's look real good. When I used B&S 30WT after 25 hrs it went down below a 20wt.
A 15W-40 HDEO is one of several good choices.
I have a Briggs 20 HP V-Twin and Briggs recommends a 10W-30 conventional/5W-30 synthetic or a 10W-30 synthetic.
B&S says not to extend past 25 hrs if severe service or 50 hrs normally even with a synthetic oil as the engines have a tendency to shear and fuel dilute.
My choices has been Royal Purple 10W-30 which is great and German Castrol 0W-30 which is great as well. UOA's look real good. When I used B&S 30WT after 25 hrs it went down below a 20wt.
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"I have a Briggs 20 HP V-Twin and Briggs recommends a 10W-30 conventional/5W-30 synthetic or a 10W-30 synthetic."
Oil companies updated their formulations once per year. B&S updates their recommendations about once per decade. They are probably more right than wrong ... but I don't pay them much heed. Basically, they feel their engines run best at operating temperature with a 30 weight oil of some kind. That's about it.
That's the reason they recommended straight-weight 30 seemingly forever. It was only in the last decade or so that they figured out it might not be great for the engine to be started in sub-freezing temps with a straight 30 in the sump. Some number of damaged engines later, they finally put a bit more thought into their recommendations ... while failing to realize that XW-30 PCMOs of all types are quick to shear down to a 20 weight in high-stress applications (like some OPE). Oops ... their bad.
"B&S says not to extend past 25 hrs if severe service or 50 hrs normally even with a synthetic oil as the engines have a tendency to shear and fuel dilute."
This part I agree with ... and if you use a 15W-40, you have a wider safety margin built in. A little sheer or dilution and you're still solidly in 30 weight territory. Also, conventional 15W-40 is more economical to change frequently in OPE engines without oil filters.
"My choices have been Royal Purple 10W-30 which is great and German Castrol 0W-30 which is great as well. UOA's look really good."
Good choices for sure, but a bit of overkill for most OPE owners ... especially in engines with no filters where I would recommend shorter intervals to flush out wear debris.
"When I used B&S 30WT after 25 hrs it went down below a 20wt."
Another overpriced, under-performing OEM oil. Status: fail.
Oil companies updated their formulations once per year. B&S updates their recommendations about once per decade. They are probably more right than wrong ... but I don't pay them much heed. Basically, they feel their engines run best at operating temperature with a 30 weight oil of some kind. That's about it.
That's the reason they recommended straight-weight 30 seemingly forever. It was only in the last decade or so that they figured out it might not be great for the engine to be started in sub-freezing temps with a straight 30 in the sump. Some number of damaged engines later, they finally put a bit more thought into their recommendations ... while failing to realize that XW-30 PCMOs of all types are quick to shear down to a 20 weight in high-stress applications (like some OPE). Oops ... their bad.
"B&S says not to extend past 25 hrs if severe service or 50 hrs normally even with a synthetic oil as the engines have a tendency to shear and fuel dilute."
This part I agree with ... and if you use a 15W-40, you have a wider safety margin built in. A little sheer or dilution and you're still solidly in 30 weight territory. Also, conventional 15W-40 is more economical to change frequently in OPE engines without oil filters.
"My choices have been Royal Purple 10W-30 which is great and German Castrol 0W-30 which is great as well. UOA's look really good."
Good choices for sure, but a bit of overkill for most OPE owners ... especially in engines with no filters where I would recommend shorter intervals to flush out wear debris.
"When I used B&S 30WT after 25 hrs it went down below a 20wt."
Another overpriced, under-performing OEM oil. Status: fail.
I just got my 8 HP B@S riding mower running so I changed the oil with 15/40 Delvac 1300. Today I used the mower for the first time and when I was done, I took a look at the oil. Looked pretty dirty after only 2 hours of running time.Any thoughts on whether I should change it out now, or run it a while longer.,,
I did an oil change in a relatives' toro personal pace mower and put in shell rotella 15w40 hdeo. the engine runs fine but seams to vibrate a tad more maybe with better compression with the thicker oil. Before I always used chevron delo 400 sae 10w30 in it. I just use what we have in bulk at our farm.
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I use M1 5-30 or 5-30EP which I have on hand. Both help with starting over thicker oils I once tried. I believe 30Wt oil also works better in most mowers compaired to thicker oil. That's my experience with my 20 year old Honda.
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Joe public doesn't even know that their lawnmower has oil in it. Let alone change or check it.
The engine on the mower will outlast the rest of the the unit in most cases no matter what you do to it.
I picked up a newer briggs mower the other day for free from a friend who couldn't get it to start, and just went to chinamart to buy a new one instead of spending 60 bucks to get it fixed at the shop.
I put a 4 dollar carb diaphragm in it, and changed the oil with some 10w30 that I had left over. The thing runs like a clock, and I know for a fact that the oil has not been changed since 2005.
The engine on the mower will outlast the rest of the the unit in most cases no matter what you do to it.
I picked up a newer briggs mower the other day for free from a friend who couldn't get it to start, and just went to chinamart to buy a new one instead of spending 60 bucks to get it fixed at the shop.
I put a 4 dollar carb diaphragm in it, and changed the oil with some 10w30 that I had left over. The thing runs like a clock, and I know for a fact that the oil has not been changed since 2005.
I used M1 10-30 for years in my cars but it resulted in consistent metal filings in my honda push mower. After 2 years of sparkly oil and the growth of white puffs on startup I switched to rotella T. no more sparkle. M1 just couldn't handle the heat.
Syntec 5-30 gives a little puff of smoke when I start my eu2000 genset, but it drains without the sparkles, and it doesn't develop that grey tint like the mowers have.
When that genset is underloaded I think it runs too cool, as it has massive airflow and the rpms drop down and it just putts along, engine temp I'd guess ~150F maybe? It's not until it gets loaded that it throws some heat, so I do want to keep a multi-vis oil that can stay thin in there.
M
Syntec 5-30 gives a little puff of smoke when I start my eu2000 genset, but it drains without the sparkles, and it doesn't develop that grey tint like the mowers have.
When that genset is underloaded I think it runs too cool, as it has massive airflow and the rpms drop down and it just putts along, engine temp I'd guess ~150F maybe? It's not until it gets loaded that it throws some heat, so I do want to keep a multi-vis oil that can stay thin in there.
M
I run Shell 15-40 in my 20hp Kohler engine in my 6 year old Craftsman mower. No oil consumption at all.
I use Shell T6 Synthetic in everything else...such as atvs and my Yamaha motorcycle. The synthetic works great in those apps.
I use Shell T6 Synthetic in everything else...such as atvs and my Yamaha motorcycle. The synthetic works great in those apps.
Originally Posted By: Bror Jace
Oil companies updated their formulations once per year. B&S updates their recommendations about once per decade. They are probably more right than wrong ... but I don't pay them much heed. Basically, they feel their engines run best at operating temperature with a 30 weight oil of some kind. That's about it.
That's the reason they recommended straight-weight 30 seemingly forever.
Bror,
Why then, do the big boys, Kohler and Kawasaki, still recommend 30W and 10W30 for their commercial OPE engines that get run in much more demanding conditions than do homeowner ones?
It seems that these companies would be on the ball with more R & D to keep up with the changing oil market.
Maybe those guys should be looking to us for the best oil for their engines!
Oil companies updated their formulations once per year. B&S updates their recommendations about once per decade. They are probably more right than wrong ... but I don't pay them much heed. Basically, they feel their engines run best at operating temperature with a 30 weight oil of some kind. That's about it.
That's the reason they recommended straight-weight 30 seemingly forever.
Bror,
Why then, do the big boys, Kohler and Kawasaki, still recommend 30W and 10W30 for their commercial OPE engines that get run in much more demanding conditions than do homeowner ones?
It seems that these companies would be on the ball with more R & D to keep up with the changing oil market.
Maybe those guys should be looking to us for the best oil for their engines!
BigCahuna, HDEOs have a potent detergent and dispersant package ... good for cleaning old gunk and holding in suspension. I'd change it every 4-6 hours until the oil cleans up.
Chewy781, the heavier weight oil is probably putting a bit more load on the engine ... and that is causing the more noticeable vibration (not greater compression). In your case (or the case of VERY new OPE) I might go with an XW-30 oil ... but watch it like a hawk for signs of consumption. I've never said 15W-40 is a 100% solution for all OPE. But for most, I'd say it'll provide as-good-or-better service than a straight 30 or XW-30.
JustinH, true, I've heard all kinds of stories of OPE engines surviving criminal levels of neglect. I believe most of them and have even some examples first hand. But I've gotten a lot more used engines that smoke heavily, burn oil, etc ... from that kind of abuse ... and don't want that kind of poor (embarrassing) performance from something I had to walk behind ... especially when proper, basic maintenance takes just a couple hours per year.
So Meep, what do you run in your gensets? If oil temps are rarely over 150F, I probably wouldn't run anything thicker than a XW-30 ... but I'd pick one with a stout additive package.
Doitmyself, I'm not sure that commercial equipment is run under any more demanding conditions ... but they are typically run at greater frequency. I'm thinking of the guys that have commercial mowing businesses and run their mowers 40-50 hours per week. We've had some of these guys on this site talking about the equipment and business habits over the years.
Some of the same issues driving a simplistic recommendation for a straight 30 or synthetic XW-30 apply to commercial equipment, too. When you're in business to get work done and make a profit, you want maintenance to be fast/simple/convenient. You don't want to have to carry exotic lubricants, etc ... So, Kohler and Kawasaki would rather recommend common, easy to find lubricants that will work well enough, for the most part, most of the time, in most applications ... as opposed to something like a 5W-40 which might not be available everywhere ... or a 15W-40 which may not be ideal for cooler conditions.
I would like to think they would offer a chart covering temps from well below zero through 100+F but they don't ... at least not any more. They don't want the engine to last forever ... just the expected 500, 1,000, 2,000 hours, etc ...
Chewy781, the heavier weight oil is probably putting a bit more load on the engine ... and that is causing the more noticeable vibration (not greater compression). In your case (or the case of VERY new OPE) I might go with an XW-30 oil ... but watch it like a hawk for signs of consumption. I've never said 15W-40 is a 100% solution for all OPE. But for most, I'd say it'll provide as-good-or-better service than a straight 30 or XW-30.
JustinH, true, I've heard all kinds of stories of OPE engines surviving criminal levels of neglect. I believe most of them and have even some examples first hand. But I've gotten a lot more used engines that smoke heavily, burn oil, etc ... from that kind of abuse ... and don't want that kind of poor (embarrassing) performance from something I had to walk behind ... especially when proper, basic maintenance takes just a couple hours per year.
So Meep, what do you run in your gensets? If oil temps are rarely over 150F, I probably wouldn't run anything thicker than a XW-30 ... but I'd pick one with a stout additive package.
Doitmyself, I'm not sure that commercial equipment is run under any more demanding conditions ... but they are typically run at greater frequency. I'm thinking of the guys that have commercial mowing businesses and run their mowers 40-50 hours per week. We've had some of these guys on this site talking about the equipment and business habits over the years.
Some of the same issues driving a simplistic recommendation for a straight 30 or synthetic XW-30 apply to commercial equipment, too. When you're in business to get work done and make a profit, you want maintenance to be fast/simple/convenient. You don't want to have to carry exotic lubricants, etc ... So, Kohler and Kawasaki would rather recommend common, easy to find lubricants that will work well enough, for the most part, most of the time, in most applications ... as opposed to something like a 5W-40 which might not be available everywhere ... or a 15W-40 which may not be ideal for cooler conditions.
I would like to think they would offer a chart covering temps from well below zero through 100+F but they don't ... at least not any more. They don't want the engine to last forever ... just the expected 500, 1,000, 2,000 hours, etc ...
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Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Why then, do the big boys, Kohler and Kawasaki, still recommend 30W and 10W30...
We've talked about this a bunch over the years on this forum. IMO, it the vast availability of 10w30 and the fact that this viscosity range will do a decent job protecting an engine over a WIDE range of operating conditions for the warranty period and beyond. Kind of a blanket oil so to speak.
Joel
Why then, do the big boys, Kohler and Kawasaki, still recommend 30W and 10W30...
We've talked about this a bunch over the years on this forum. IMO, it the vast availability of 10w30 and the fact that this viscosity range will do a decent job protecting an engine over a WIDE range of operating conditions for the warranty period and beyond. Kind of a blanket oil so to speak.
Joel
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in our mowers and karts and mini bikes we run rotells 15w/40 i have run m1 10w-30 and did alot of rebuilds but with rotella i havent had a problem yet. i got a good deal on some syntec 10w-30 2weeks ago and i have lost a intake lobe on one of our minis. it has a gx200 with a billet rod billet flywheel 22mm mikuni carb and a ported head with 11.2 compression on pump gas. well now i have to rebuild it and buy a new cam there goes 200 bucks out the window. stupid oil!
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