I curious as to why more people aren't using HDEOs in their gasoline cars. As I read here, a lot of people are using them due to their "stout" additive packages. If this is the case, why don't more people use these in their gasoline engines (i.e. RTS and Mobil TDT 5w-40)instead of the regular gasoline oils?
Why aren't we all using HDEOs?
- Thread starter madibob
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Limited avl. of 5w30 for most gas cars.. increased catalyst pollution... One thing Delo denoted also was less effective piston cleaning of other brands of HDEO due to the types of additive packages when used in diesel engines to pass gasoline wear tests. So Even tho they may be packed with additives which show up in oil tests they may not be tuned to gasoline engines and may be run of the mil. When comes to wear and piston depoist wear on a gas engine. I read that on one of DELO's 400 when they rolled out DPF and EGR stuff on diesel engines a couple years ago. Saying all that i'd use a 15w40 S rated oil in my car... unless i lived up north in winter..
Diesel Dr., what do you think of dino HDEO in a modern gas TURBO engine?
I think advertising is the answer here. I have ran HDEO's with outstanding results in gasoline engines. I have to much oil stash now, however my local walmart is carrying Rotella 10w-30... in the near future I may start running this oil year round, or at least during summer months, and warmer etc...
I'm reluctant to run anything other than the owners manual reccomended oil in my cars.
Originally Posted By: madibob
I curious as to why more people aren't using HDEOs in their gasoline cars. As I read here, a lot of people are using them due to their "stout" additive packages. If this is the case, why don't more people use these in their gasoline engines (i.e. RTS and Mobil TDT 5w-40)instead of the regular gasoline oils?
Good question. Too few people ask it.
I curious as to why more people aren't using HDEOs in their gasoline cars. As I read here, a lot of people are using them due to their "stout" additive packages. If this is the case, why don't more people use these in their gasoline engines (i.e. RTS and Mobil TDT 5w-40)instead of the regular gasoline oils?
Good question. Too few people ask it.
I ran Rotella 10W-30 with annual changes in my Mother's 3800 Buick. Usually 8000-9000 miles a year. It wasnt worth fixing when the trans died at 240,000 miles.
She has a 2007 Hyundai Accent now that gets Motorcraft 5W-20. Because its still under warranty it gets 6 month changes.
She has a 2007 Hyundai Accent now that gets Motorcraft 5W-20. Because its still under warranty it gets 6 month changes.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Diesel Dr., what do you think of dino HDEO in a modern gas TURBO engine?
I can't speak for Dieseldoctor, but Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15w-40 conventional is in my Audi 200 turbo right now. Whether or not one thinks that's a modern gas turbo engine or not depends on one's perspective, I suppose.
Diesel Dr., what do you think of dino HDEO in a modern gas TURBO engine?
I can't speak for Dieseldoctor, but Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15w-40 conventional is in my Audi 200 turbo right now. Whether or not one thinks that's a modern gas turbo engine or not depends on one's perspective, I suppose.
The reason I was asking is that I run RTS or Mobil 1 TDT 5w-40 in my Ford 7.3L diesel. Since I have this and it's so stout, I thought why not run it in my Acura and the Tacoma? Both call for a 5w-30. I'm especially interested in trying it in my TSX as it uses a little oil and this may reduce consumption??
Originally Posted By: Dieseldoctor
Limited avl. of 5w30 for most gas cars.. increased catalyst pollution... One thing Delo denoted also was less effective piston cleaning of other brands of HDEO due to the types of additive packages when used in diesel engines to pass gasoline wear tests. So Even tho they may be packed with additives which show up in oil tests they may not be tuned to gasoline engines and may be run of the mil. When comes to wear and piston depoist wear on a gas engine. I read that on one of DELO's 400 when they rolled out DPF and EGR stuff on diesel engines a couple years ago. Saying all that i'd use a 15w40 S rated oil in my car... unless i lived up north in winter..
Great information. I have read similar things in literature. As an aside, M1 5W-40 Turbo Diesel Truck was NOT stout in my VW 1.8T gas engine. Deposits built up in the valve cover sooner than many other NON-HDEO synthetics I've used.
Limited avl. of 5w30 for most gas cars.. increased catalyst pollution... One thing Delo denoted also was less effective piston cleaning of other brands of HDEO due to the types of additive packages when used in diesel engines to pass gasoline wear tests. So Even tho they may be packed with additives which show up in oil tests they may not be tuned to gasoline engines and may be run of the mil. When comes to wear and piston depoist wear on a gas engine. I read that on one of DELO's 400 when they rolled out DPF and EGR stuff on diesel engines a couple years ago. Saying all that i'd use a 15w40 S rated oil in my car... unless i lived up north in winter..
Great information. I have read similar things in literature. As an aside, M1 5W-40 Turbo Diesel Truck was NOT stout in my VW 1.8T gas engine. Deposits built up in the valve cover sooner than many other NON-HDEO synthetics I've used.
These are stout oils, and I suspect that they would meet virtually any gas engine standard. Their makers don't see Euro spec users as a significant target, so the makers don't bother to test them to anything beyond SM, and sometimes not even that.
These oils are marketed toward and intended for OTR diesels primarily, after all. The amount of Delvac, Delo, Rotella or Tection used in cars is probably a miniscule part of the HDEO market. I suspect the only reason the makers even bother with API SL or SM is that many fleet users like to use the same oil in all of their vehicles, not just their trucks.
Viscosity isn't that much of an issue, since 10W-30s and 5W-40s are widely available.
I did find JAG's experience with TDT a little surprising.
I would have expected it to perform better.
Anyway, if I didn't have a stash, and couldn't find killer deals on pax car SM/CF, I'd probably use HDEOs more widely.
I have one in the BMW right now, and it will get one more run of the Tection prior to the car's winter slumber.
I have also used HDEO 15W-40s in both the van and the '97 Accord.
Again, if I had no stash, and had no desire to chase deals, closeouts and MIRs, HDEOs are a great value at their typical everyday prices.
Also, the pax car oils that meet demanding standards are usually either not as cheap or not as widely available (find PP 5W-40 on a shelf anywhere, and while M1 0W-40 is widely available, it cannot be had in the much less costly per quart jugs, for example) than those that merely meet API SM.
These oils are marketed toward and intended for OTR diesels primarily, after all. The amount of Delvac, Delo, Rotella or Tection used in cars is probably a miniscule part of the HDEO market. I suspect the only reason the makers even bother with API SL or SM is that many fleet users like to use the same oil in all of their vehicles, not just their trucks.
Viscosity isn't that much of an issue, since 10W-30s and 5W-40s are widely available.
I did find JAG's experience with TDT a little surprising.
I would have expected it to perform better.
Anyway, if I didn't have a stash, and couldn't find killer deals on pax car SM/CF, I'd probably use HDEOs more widely.
I have one in the BMW right now, and it will get one more run of the Tection prior to the car's winter slumber.
I have also used HDEO 15W-40s in both the van and the '97 Accord.
Again, if I had no stash, and had no desire to chase deals, closeouts and MIRs, HDEOs are a great value at their typical everyday prices.
Also, the pax car oils that meet demanding standards are usually either not as cheap or not as widely available (find PP 5W-40 on a shelf anywhere, and while M1 0W-40 is widely available, it cannot be had in the much less costly per quart jugs, for example) than those that merely meet API SM.
Originally Posted By: madibob
The reason I was asking is that I run RTS or Mobil 1 TDT 5w-40 in my Ford 7.3L diesel. Since I have this and it's so stout, I thought why not run it in my Acura and the Tacoma? Both call for a 5w-30. I'm especially interested in trying it in my TSX as it uses a little oil and this may reduce consumption??
I can't see why not. Unless there's an overriding reason that neither could use a 40 weight oil, it should work fine. The vehicles are old enough that the HDEO specs should be more than sufficient. They're also likely out of warranty so that doesn't matter so much.
I can't see any reason as to why you couldn't run any of Rotella, Mobil 1 TDT, or Delvac 1 in a 5w-40 all year round. That's my oil of choice for my Audi year round, and our winters are even worse than yours.
The reason I was asking is that I run RTS or Mobil 1 TDT 5w-40 in my Ford 7.3L diesel. Since I have this and it's so stout, I thought why not run it in my Acura and the Tacoma? Both call for a 5w-30. I'm especially interested in trying it in my TSX as it uses a little oil and this may reduce consumption??
I can't see why not. Unless there's an overriding reason that neither could use a 40 weight oil, it should work fine. The vehicles are old enough that the HDEO specs should be more than sufficient. They're also likely out of warranty so that doesn't matter so much.
I can't see any reason as to why you couldn't run any of Rotella, Mobil 1 TDT, or Delvac 1 in a 5w-40 all year round. That's my oil of choice for my Audi year round, and our winters are even worse than yours.
I think u can run HDEO in most cars before they put 3 way catalyst after that i'd not recommend it. Alot gas cars now if u run a oil with alot of additives like zinc phos. and others your cat life will drop from 200K to 100K or less. This is part of the Low SAPS simular to the DPF's on modern diesel engines u'd have look at your application and see if these oils will fit the bill.
I think they'd offer marginal performance just be aware they're made for diesel engines some put just enough of different additives to pass gas engine tests but i dont think they'd be specifically tuned to give the best protection or service out of gas engines imo. They're fine to run but alot of better cheaper options.
I think they'd offer marginal performance just be aware they're made for diesel engines some put just enough of different additives to pass gas engine tests but i dont think they'd be specifically tuned to give the best protection or service out of gas engines imo. They're fine to run but alot of better cheaper options.
Originally Posted By: Dieseldoctor
I think u can run HDEO in most cars before they put 3 way catalyst after that i'd not recommend it. Alot gas cars now if u run a oil with alot of additives like zinc phos. and others your cat life will drop from 200K to 100K or less. This is part of the Low SAPS simular to the DPF's on modern diesel engines u'd have look at your application and see if these oils will fit the bill.
Well, I'm "lucky" up here, depending upon how one defines that term. If there is a cat failure, one can simply cut the cat off and splice the pipe and toss the cat in the garbage. Any shop will do it and no one will say squat, since we have no emissions testing here.
My Audi doesn't care either way, and my old Ford 300 cid certainly doesn't care. As for cheapness, it's hard to beat HDEO if one buys in bulk. In Canada, getting 20L for under $40 is a very good deal.
I think u can run HDEO in most cars before they put 3 way catalyst after that i'd not recommend it. Alot gas cars now if u run a oil with alot of additives like zinc phos. and others your cat life will drop from 200K to 100K or less. This is part of the Low SAPS simular to the DPF's on modern diesel engines u'd have look at your application and see if these oils will fit the bill.
Well, I'm "lucky" up here, depending upon how one defines that term. If there is a cat failure, one can simply cut the cat off and splice the pipe and toss the cat in the garbage. Any shop will do it and no one will say squat, since we have no emissions testing here.
My Audi doesn't care either way, and my old Ford 300 cid certainly doesn't care. As for cheapness, it's hard to beat HDEO if one buys in bulk. In Canada, getting 20L for under $40 is a very good deal.
Originally Posted By: madibob
The reason I was asking is that I run RTS or Mobil 1 TDT 5w-40 in my Ford 7.3L diesel. Since I have this and it's so stout, I thought why not run it in my Acura and the Tacoma? Both call for a 5w-30. I'm especially interested in trying it in my TSX as it uses a little oil and this may reduce consumption??
Many Subie turbo owners use RTS in their cars and finds it holds up better.
On the TSX, should be fine. Might sacriface a mpg or 2 compared to Honda liking 5w20.
The reason I was asking is that I run RTS or Mobil 1 TDT 5w-40 in my Ford 7.3L diesel. Since I have this and it's so stout, I thought why not run it in my Acura and the Tacoma? Both call for a 5w-30. I'm especially interested in trying it in my TSX as it uses a little oil and this may reduce consumption??
Many Subie turbo owners use RTS in their cars and finds it holds up better.
On the TSX, should be fine. Might sacriface a mpg or 2 compared to Honda liking 5w20.
I've always rationalized it like this, which oil costs more to blend? Which product has the least profit margin?
a just adequately additized SM Starburst oil meant to run standard service intervals
OR
a high base number, high HTHS, stronger AW oil designed for long service intervals and greater oxidative stability?
I'll agree that it's marketing.
That said, for most motorists commuting to work and running around getting groceries, there is nothing wrong using a motor oil engineered for low-cost, mass production, instead of one designed with a greater durability and protection buffer in their 145hp 2.0L NA engine (or their 290hp 4.0L for that matter). In most cases, thin starburst oils are more suitable. I would still probably prefer an HDEO in a college kid or daughter's car (or any of the majority of people who fail to change the oil regularly).
** with modern hydrocracking being more and more prevalent - it really comes down to additive packages an viscosity index and VII's more than basestocks. I suspect most new regular PCMO's rely heavily on the gr II/III base oils themselves for most of their performance, cutting the cost of additives further
a just adequately additized SM Starburst oil meant to run standard service intervals
OR
a high base number, high HTHS, stronger AW oil designed for long service intervals and greater oxidative stability?
I'll agree that it's marketing.
That said, for most motorists commuting to work and running around getting groceries, there is nothing wrong using a motor oil engineered for low-cost, mass production, instead of one designed with a greater durability and protection buffer in their 145hp 2.0L NA engine (or their 290hp 4.0L for that matter). In most cases, thin starburst oils are more suitable. I would still probably prefer an HDEO in a college kid or daughter's car (or any of the majority of people who fail to change the oil regularly).
** with modern hydrocracking being more and more prevalent - it really comes down to additive packages an viscosity index and VII's more than basestocks. I suspect most new regular PCMO's rely heavily on the gr II/III base oils themselves for most of their performance, cutting the cost of additives further
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Dieseldoctor
I think u can run HDEO in most cars before they put 3 way catalyst after that i'd not recommend it. Alot gas cars now if u run a oil with alot of additives like zinc phos. and others your cat life will drop from 200K to 100K or less. This is part of the Low SAPS simular to the DPF's on modern diesel engines u'd have look at your application and see if these oils will fit the bill.
Well, I'm "lucky" up here, depending upon how one defines that term. If there is a cat failure, one can simply cut the cat off and splice the pipe and toss the cat in the garbage. Any shop will do it and no one will say squat, since we have no emissions testing here.
anyone who takes a cat off for a stupid reason is selfish and definitely not thiniking about the future
Originally Posted By: Dieseldoctor
I think u can run HDEO in most cars before they put 3 way catalyst after that i'd not recommend it. Alot gas cars now if u run a oil with alot of additives like zinc phos. and others your cat life will drop from 200K to 100K or less. This is part of the Low SAPS simular to the DPF's on modern diesel engines u'd have look at your application and see if these oils will fit the bill.
Well, I'm "lucky" up here, depending upon how one defines that term. If there is a cat failure, one can simply cut the cat off and splice the pipe and toss the cat in the garbage. Any shop will do it and no one will say squat, since we have no emissions testing here.
anyone who takes a cat off for a stupid reason is selfish and definitely not thiniking about the future
Originally Posted By: Dieseldoctor
I think u can run HDEO in most cars before they put 3 way catalyst after that i'd not recommend it. Alot gas cars now if u run a oil with alot of additives like zinc phos. and others your cat life will drop from 200K to 100K or less. This is part of the Low SAPS simular to the DPF's on modern diesel engines u'd have look at your application and see if these oils will fit the bill.
Mobil 1 15w-50 has more Zinc/Phos than M1 TDT and M1 0w-40 has almost as much, In the case of TDT, I dont think it will shorten the cat's 9 lives by a big percentage
There is a chart posted under the VOA section on here with the ZDDP levels
I think u can run HDEO in most cars before they put 3 way catalyst after that i'd not recommend it. Alot gas cars now if u run a oil with alot of additives like zinc phos. and others your cat life will drop from 200K to 100K or less. This is part of the Low SAPS simular to the DPF's on modern diesel engines u'd have look at your application and see if these oils will fit the bill.
Mobil 1 15w-50 has more Zinc/Phos than M1 TDT and M1 0w-40 has almost as much, In the case of TDT, I dont think it will shorten the cat's 9 lives by a big percentage
There is a chart posted under the VOA section on here with the ZDDP levels
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