How the grinch stole Sturgis...

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It's funny now how the Harley attitude of being a 'tough' guy and looking unshaven, rough, and rather nasty....now finds a backlash of folks getting rather tired of the whole thing. If people that ride Harleys....especially those with the 'sinister' look (complete with the dorky fake pony-tails, wallet chains, and head sock to cover the bald spot) want real respect and acceptance from mainstream, family folks....perhaps smile once in a while and clean the look up a bit. I find that most Harley guys try way too hard to be arrogant and nasty looking. Who wants to befriend a guy on a bike that looks like he just got out of prison? Think about it. Don't get me wrong....I've got a couple of friends that do the whole comical Harley thing (do they ever get tired of black and orange....yuck!). They are good people....but they seem to have an identity problem. Too busy posing and 'acting' tough instead of just being a cheerful motorcyclist out on a nice ride.
 
Originally Posted By: fuel tanker man
I don't want respect from guys like you. I must admit that when I see a dweeb on a metric HD copy, I think "powder puff."

:D

In reference to what I ride.....I'm a Triumph fan actually. But do you really think it's correct or fair to label anybody that rides any other v-twin than a Harley....a 'dweeb' or 'powder puff'? Harley Davidson isn't the only bike manufacturer out there with 'cool' bikes. I like some of them, but in all honesty the whole 'Harley' thing has long ago become very tiresome. I blame it on marketing and consumerism. They have over saturated the market and perpetuated a culture that many just don't find appealing anymore. Nothing against anybody that enjoys riding a Harley or any other bike though....it would just be nice if they would stop the boastful nature and the whole obnoxious image of the 'rebel' thing.
Just my opinion....means nothing and not intended to offend.
 
I just wish they wouldn't rev the [censored] things in crowded residential neighborhoods! OK! you're a rebel! we GET IT! now keep it QUIET!
 
Originally Posted By: andrewg
It's funny now how the Harley attitude of being a 'tough' guy and looking unshaven, rough, and rather nasty....now finds a backlash of folks getting rather tired of the whole thing. If people that ride Harleys....especially those with the 'sinister' look (complete with the dorky fake pony-tails, wallet chains, and head sock to cover the bald spot) want real respect and acceptance from mainstream, family folks....perhaps smile once in a while and clean the look up a bit. ......


This is whats so funny about people around here. Sayings like "Harley Attitude".. Funny that I see so many people on "Metric Cruisers" that look, talk, act, and smell exactly like those "Harley Riders"... So either someones trying the "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" saying, or maybe its just some people in general, no matter what they ride, are just slobs. I guess every guy in the world who rides a Gold wing is upstanding, friendly, non drinking, non imposing to everyone else in the world. Hardly...
If you have ever ridden a Harley, you would understand its no different than why someone would only ride Crotch-rockets or Brit-bikes or gold wings. Its a personal preference to a distinct style of sound, feeling, and ride that each one gets from his/her own bike. And if you think HD riders are 'stuck up' or "holier than thou", wait till you come across the average BMW rider....
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Originally Posted By: Tim H.
Originally Posted By: andrewg
It's funny now how the Harley attitude of being a 'tough' guy and looking unshaven, rough, and rather nasty....now finds a backlash of folks getting rather tired of the whole thing. If people that ride Harleys....especially those with the 'sinister' look (complete with the dorky fake pony-tails, wallet chains, and head sock to cover the bald spot) want real respect and acceptance from mainstream, family folks....perhaps smile once in a while and clean the look up a bit. ......


This is whats so funny about people around here. Sayings like "Harley Attitude".. Funny that I see so many people on "Metric Cruisers" that look, talk, act, and smell exactly like those "Harley Riders"... So either someones trying the "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" saying, or maybe its just some people in general, no matter what they ride, are just slobs. I guess every guy in the world who rides a Gold wing is upstanding, friendly, non drinking, non imposing to everyone else in the world. Hardly...
If you have ever ridden a Harley, you would understand its no different than why someone would only ride Crotch-rockets or Brit-bikes or gold wings. Its a personal preference to a distinct style of sound, feeling, and ride that each one gets from his/her own bike. And if you think HD riders are 'stuck up' or "holier than thou", wait till you come across the average BMW rider....
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I'll offer some more opinions here since this is what this thread is about. No insults intended....I agree that for the most part many folks on 'metric' cruisers do indeed wish to emulate the Harley crowd....and yes, they are every bit annoying with the very dated 'rebel' thing going on. But I don't think they are a 'wanna be' rebel or fake cruiser just because they ride an metric bike. Heck, many of those large metric cruisers cost as much as any Harley....and they are just as legit as any other motorcycle. Harley doesn't 'own' any title in my book, except perhaps as a bike for folks that want attention and acceptance among other Harley admirers. There are so many Harleys out there these days that they hardly qualify as anything original or special in my book. But that's fine.....it's just not my thing nor do I feel the Harley 'image' is really a good one for motorcycling.
And no, all Goldwing riders aren't always going to be model citizens. But odds are they don't subscribe to an attitude and culture that is akin to barbarism.
I have ridden all kinds of bikes with various displacements, engine configurations, as well as foreign and domestic. Some are great to ride and some aren't. I don't stick with ONLY one bike brand.....that would be boring for me. I love Triumph Bonneville's.....but I liked my VTX 1800 too. Interestingly, I do not like racing style bikes AT ALL. I do marvel at the technology they put into them, but after riding one once I decided they are not my kind of bike. Many foolish young kids ride those things like they are never going to die (but of course they do....in rather large numbers). And I have been around BMW folks. They all seem nice to me. Never had one treat me poorly (or pass me on the shoulder like many Harley riders have).
No, I like almost all types of bikes. It's just the prevailing culture and attitude of Harley riders that after twenty five some years since their rebirth, I have really become tired of the annoying loud noise, the immature 'bad-boy' outfits, and the overwhelming saturation of the marketplace (Harley everything....t-shirts, watches, boots, jackets, truck models, hats, and everything else under the sun).
 
You guys need to come down from your high horse and get to know some of these "Harley Riders". You might be suprized just how nice those people realy are. Ever heard af B.A.C.A.? TOYS FOR TOTS ring a bell? What about the Shriners hospital for kids? There are many,many more. Guess what? These "HarleyRiders" Raise an untold amount of money for these organizations along with the all thy toys for unfortunate children of this country. And all you guys (and you know who you are) are laughing at and bashing these people,while hidding behind a keyboard. Who's the real POSER'S?
 
Originally Posted By: porkchop01
You guys need to come down from your high horse and get to know some of these "Harley Riders". You might be suprized just how nice those people realy are. Ever heard af B.A.C.A.? TOYS FOR TOTS ring a bell? What about the Shriners hospital for kids? There are many,many more. Guess what? These "HarleyRiders" Raise an untold amount of money for these organizations along with the all thy toys for unfortunate children of this country. And all you guys (and you know who you are) are laughing at and bashing these people,while hidding behind a keyboard. Who's the real POSER'S?

Never denied that some Harley groups donate money to charity groups. That's not the issue. I know MANY Harley riders and have been friends with some (and I am open about my opinions on the subject....no keyboard in front of me when I talk with them). While it is indeed true that Harley folks can be very giving (especially when it involves getting attention), if it didn't involve riding in large groups or having a chance to be in the limelight, I'm not so sure they would be as charitable. What is also important about giving is not expecting nor seeking attention. Those that do so in a completely anonymous fashion are the folks that I admire.
Besides all that though.....I stand behind my opinion of the whole Harley thing and it's pretentious nature.
 
What is important is how we act, not what we ride. All of us have a responsibility to represent the sport in a positive image; we do not get enough respect now. I have seen wonderful and at times terrible images that have been presented by riders of all makes and models. And the posers should just go home and watch Wild Hogs, do I have an amen brother. Ride in peace, been doing this for 37 years now.
 
Originally Posted By: andrewg
I'll offer some more opinions here since this is what this thread is about. No insults intended....I agree that for the most part many folks on 'metric' cruisers do indeed wish to emulate the Harley crowd....and yes, they are every bit annoying with the very dated 'rebel' thing going on. But I don't think they are a 'wanna be' rebel or fake cruiser just because they ride an metric bike. Heck, many of those large metric cruisers cost as much as any Harley....and they are just as legit as any other motorcycle. Harley doesn't 'own' any title in my book, except perhaps as a bike for folks that want attention and acceptance among other Harley admirers. There are so many Harleys out there these days that they hardly qualify as anything original or special in my book. But that's fine.....it's just not my thing nor do I feel the Harley 'image' is really a good one for motorcycling.
I am not disagreeing with you on the legitimacy of a metric cruiser. As for 'owning a title', it would seem though that most all metric cruiser manufacturer's emulated the "Harley look" all the way down to the V-twin engine. Most all metric bikes 20 years ago were inline 4's or v-4s, etc. To me, it would seem there is a direction of those manufacturer's to emulate that HD look and the stigma that goes with it. While you personally may be tired of that stigma, It seems each bike type has its own "cult following". However, I seem to hear more about HD' riders issues than I do about sport bike riders and thier vwooming on the rev-limiter or thier fat-arsed girlfriends crack hanging out the back, not to say how 'most' of them ride. As for the clothing, I wear the same 'leather bad boy" outfit whether I am on my HD or my old '83 Suzuki GS1100GK. I wear it because it fits my needs, not because I wanna be some kinda arse-kicker. And I, nor any other HD rider I have come across, sans an outlaw biker gang, is a 'barbarian'.




Originally Posted By: andrewg
....
I have ridden all kinds of bikes with various displacements, engine configurations, as well as foreign and domestic. Some are great to ride and some aren't. I don't stick with ONLY one bike brand.....that would be boring for me. I love Triumph Bonneville's.....but I liked my VTX 1800 too. Interestingly, I do not like racing style bikes AT ALL. I do marvel at the technology they put into them, but after riding one once I decided they are not my kind of bike. Many foolish young kids ride those things like they are never going to die (but of course they do....in rather large numbers). And I have been around BMW folks. They all seem nice to me. Never had one treat me poorly (or pass me on the shoulder like many Harley riders have).
No, I like almost all types of bikes. It's just the prevailing culture and attitude of Harley riders that after twenty five some years since their rebirth, I have really become tired of the annoying loud noise, the immature 'bad-boy' outfits, and the overwhelming saturation of the marketplace (Harley everything....t-shirts, watches, boots, jackets, truck models, hats, and everything else under the sun).

For your first paragraph, I will agree with most all except the BMW riders. I have noticed they are alot nicer when I am on the Suzi, then when I am on the HD. As for the second paragraph, all I can say on that is if there is a market for the clothing, then it stand to reason the market will reflect what the consumers want. I take no offense to your comments, as they are as legitimate to you as mine are to me. I say Ride for pleasure, but ride with what you feel good in wearing, and what you feel good in riding......
 
Good post Tim....I have nothing to disagree about anything you've said. The point about bikes serving basically what the market demands is a sound one for sure. For the 'barbarian' reference I made toward many Harley types, I stand by it. These folks WANT to be seen as a modern version of Attila the Hun. Why? I guess as a way of telling society to shove it?! What makes it comical (for me) is that it's just not a select few that want to act or look this way.....it's literally hundreds of thousands. So the originality or 'unique' culture of the Harley rider is now mainstream and not much more than a market ploy furthered by Harley themselves (a gigantic money machine). This culture (fertilized by those that stand to make a profit) has shown itself to me to be very phony, pretentious, and in general gives motorcycling a poor image (Sturgis...a mixture of these 'rebel' types is a perfect example).
I will have to say that once again, I have had no issues with BMW riders. Perhaps they are tired of the whole Harley thing as well (you and I both know that Harley folks do not generally wave to ANYBODY unless you are on a Harley....now THAT is rude).
I know that when I've ridden bikes I gave up a long time ago trying to be kind or friendly toward Harley riders.....I used to wave and they ignored me....at stop lights they won't say hello or even look at your bike if it's not a Harley. Sorry, but I think after all these years of this type of behavior the HD folks are just getting it back. Anti-Harley stuff is all over the web as well (not that I agree with most of them) but if you read some of the posts on these sights most folks seem to feel exactly like I do and have grown very sick of the whole HD culture (based mostly on rude HD riders).
I agree with your ride for pleasure statement. That's what it is all about.....not attitude.
 
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It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.

If a certain group wants to keep to themselves...fine with me. Who am I to force myself upon them.

Except for the obviously sick malcontents and killers, if somebody wants to associate themselves with a certain group (really or in perception only)...fine with me. Who am I to judge their inner self. I have enough work with my own inner self.

If a certain group chooses to not return my wave or don't acknowledge my head nod at an intersection...fine with me. I just move along with my day and get over it. After all, who am I that every one of my actions is so important that The Entire World Must Acknowledge Me? That would be pretty presumptuous of me.

It's all in the perception. Is the problem the riders of Harleys and their choice of (fill in the blank), or is the problem with the people that have a problem with the Harley riders?
 
I stopped to help a BMW rider last summer... he had run out of gas on the interstate.

My bike is a 1994 Harley Low Rider... carbureated... so we took a water bottle from his pack and poured that out and dried it... I disconnected the fuel line from my tank and drained him about a pint of gas (he was only about a mile from the next gas station).

As we were pouring the gas into his tank, he said "I can't understand it... according to my trip computer I had another 42 miles to go before running out of gas... and according to my GPS I should have had at least 35 more miles."

"What did your gas gauge say?" I had to ask.



"Empty," he finally said.

I had to chuckle a bit, assuming he would also laugh. But you know... he didn't.

Two different breeds of riders, I guess... we're worlds apart, but as long as we're both happy all is well, I suppose. :)

Dan
 
FTM - A very good deed you did for the BMW rider. I hope that from now on he goes by the gas gauge, not the GPS.

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Originally Posted By: Mr_Incredible
It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.

If a certain group wants to keep to themselves...fine with me. Who am I to force myself upon them.

Except for the obviously sick malcontents and killers, if somebody wants to associate themselves with a certain group (really or in perception only)...fine with me. Who am I to judge their inner self. I have enough work with my own inner self.

If a certain group chooses to not return my wave or don't acknowledge my head nod at an intersection...fine with me. I just move along with my day and get over it. After all, who am I that every one of my actions is so important that The Entire World Must Acknowledge Me? That would be pretty presumptuous of me.

It's all in the perception. Is the problem the riders of Harleys and their choice of (fill in the blank), or is the problem with the people that have a problem with the Harley riders?

I see your point. I take it to basically mean to ignore them and don't expect kindness from anybody....because that would be 'forcing' myself upon them!? I don't really understand that....but I do grasp what you are trying to say. Live and let live basically....even when others are rude or obnoxious. To be fair though, nobody here that waves is asking or desiring that the 'entire' world acknowledge them (but alas, you've made my point for me as most Harley folks CRAVE attention and wouldn't know what to do if they didn't get it...hence the loud pipes and garish outfits).
In a nut shell, the problem is not with friendly, unassuming motorcyclists out for a fun time....it's with a group that marginalizes other riders that choose another brand of bike/culture. I certainly mind my own business when I have ridden around my region, and learned from being treated rudely that unless I am on a Harley....don't attempt to wave or be friendly toward these people. I am a reflection of how you treat me. One other point about this whole thing is even if folks try and ignore Harley riders (the 'Live and Let Live' thing) they make it next to IMPOSSIBLE to do so. Why? Well because of the need for them to be noticed, they force themselves upon others by making as much noise as possible with pipes and constant engine reving and throttle burping at every opportunity. I honestly don't recall a SINGLE summer weekend at a park, in my yard, or anywhere withing 1000yds. of a road, that Harley riders don't FORCE the loud intrusive noise into my life. It never goes away and I am tired of it. I do mind my own business in life....as long as others aren't preventing me from enjoying my life. I can deal with whatever Harley folks want to be or look like....I don't care....but the noise and it's root cause of getting 'noticed' is enough to make tolerance a real virtue.
Look....I have stated before that I have friends who ride Harleys. Just yesterday I was talking to one who rode with two other friends (on Honda's). He's a great guy and a kind person. So no, I am not labeling ALL Harley folks as bad people. That would be stupid....but from what I have personally dealt with MANY are indeed an irritation and need to drop the whole bad-boy, rude and noisy image thing.
That's all I'm saying.
 
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It's kind of a zen question. Is the problem the problem, or is your reaction to a particular stimulus the problem? I used to have a real problem with my temper. Things happened that forced me to realize that it was my problem, not the problem of the people that are doing whatever it was that set me off. Open mouth gum chewers, people that sit when the light turns green, not doing a job "just right," and any host of other things would really get my goat. But in the end, these things are just things, and they are extremely transient in nature and certainly not worth getting my blood pressure up. So it is with loud noises, whether the thump-thump-thump of a too-loud car stereo or the loud pipes of a motorcycle (any brand). So it is, also, with someone's aggravation at how somebody else they've never seen before and will never see again is dressing or what they ride, or how you believe that other person is living their life. What makes any individual any more right about the world than the next guy?

If a wave or a nod is not returned, I bear no ill will towards the person that ignored me. Maybe they didn't see me. Maybe they don't do that "wave" thing. And, maybe they chose not to return my wave. Yeah, so? Am I or are you so important that it would make the ignorer a criminal or should somehow be punished or called names (jerk) or receive bad karma? No. I think of people that get upset when they perceive they've been dissed as too self-important and need to get over themselves. I try to return waves if they give it before I get to it and when I see them, but I ascribe no ill will to anyone that isn't participating. Rather, I believe the person that gets upset when someone isn't paying attention to them (whether by a wave or when wearing "garish outfits") is immature and petulant.

It all comes down the reenforcement of our own ideals on others. If they are doing what we do, we approve. If they don't play the same game or play it by the same rules, we disapprove and call them names. Again, the problem is with the person whose nose is out of joint, not the person putting it out of joint. You chose to allow your nose to be placed out of joint by certain things in life. It's your problem, not theirs.

"You" being general in nature, not YOU specifically.
 
Mr. Incredible (funny name),
I understand again what you are saying....but noise IS an intrusion as described in many laws. And you bet, those folks with the extremely loud car stereos are terribly annoying and intrusive. But other bikes? Yes, some can be pretty bad.....but it's certainly not equal in terms of numbers and frequency/regularity of the Harley crowd. I understand that you have had some serious issues with your own anger and have found a rather pacifistic way for you to cope.....and that's fine for you. But as a CIVIL society we are expected to treat each other with respect to our 'pursuit of happiness' WITHOUT intruding on others that have the same right. That's why we have laws and such. Do the Harley folks break sound laws? Many do, but enforcement is next to impossible so that leaves it up to the individual rider to be a good citizen....and consequently, because of the nature of the Harley culture....they take the low road. The whole waving thing has nothing to do with an intrusion or even my own concerns about these people. I learned long ago that they are generally rude and act like high school 'clicks' unless you ride a Harley. That's fine with me...but still indicates an attitude not good for the pastime.
As for the comment you made about 'ideals' and forcing them on anybody? I don't feel that as a society we all should conform to some perfect notions that only I have in my own mind. Not at all. But when as a civil society we don't have and expect certain levels of civility and consideration....the whole thing just breaks down into a nasty mess for all.
You have you way of dealing with it....by wearing blinders I would say (and turning your ears off), and I have my way....which is discussion and expressing my right to an opinion.
 
Andrewg

I see myself less as using blinders in a pacifistic ignoring of loud pipes and loud people as simply not letting certain things eat away at my insides until I'm reduced to a caricature of a cranky old busybody. People can drape 'civil society norms' around any argument, but it's often really an individual thing.

The key to this entire discussion is the question of why Things H-D get so deep under certain people's skins. I see it as the problem of THOSE people. Why is it something they can't let go of?

Is the discussion really about 'posers' and 'loud pipes disturbing the peace' or about the is twisted hatred of a certain motorcyle group and how they are percieved by certain people? There are posers of all stripes and disturbances of all manner that don't affect the H-D haters. I wonder what the actual deepest root cause is.
 
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If this forum is any idication of brand tolerance I'd have to say that us Harley riders get the bad end of the deal. Say Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Triumph, or Ducati on this site and the discussion remains about Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Triumph, and Ducati. Say Harley and it's on. Everytime.

My best riding buddy rides a Triumph Daytona 675. I often find myself riding with sportbikes...well, 'with' is relative. I'm only with them when they slow down enough for me to keep up. :) When he rides with a pack of Harleys with me he's treated just like anyone else.

He often frequents my "Harley hangouts". He's never shown any disrespect. I often accompany him to track day and I'm not shown any disrespect.

I have been flipped off by sportbikers. I've had sportbikes pass me in the opposite direction doing a wheelie (to teach me a lesson, I assume). I've had sportbikes pass me at 120mph, again, to teach me a lesson. I certainly don't let that keep me from having a good time when I'm around sportbikers.
 
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