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#1914848 - 06/06/10 12:06 PM Type A suffix?
ryland Offline


Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 656
Loc: Portland, OR
I just got a Tomos moped and when I was taking it home I had it on its side. It leaked a little trans fluid, the guy at the place I bought it at told me it takes type F fluid but the manual says only type A suffix. How different are the two fluids? Where can I buy type A? Also as a side note its a two stroke scooter. I dont know anything about two stroke oils. The shop reccomended some type of "synthetic" two stroke oil from a brand I have never heard of. I thought that synthetics at least in four stroke motors dident burn as clean as conventionals? So why would I use a synthetic two stroke oil? Can any one reccomend a good two stroke oil.

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#1914855 - 06/06/10 12:17 PM Re: Type A suffix? [Re: ryland]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46656
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Originally Posted By: ryland
I just got a Tomos moped and when I was taking it home I had it on its side. It leaked a little trans fluid, the guy at the place I bought it at told me it takes type F fluid but the manual says only type A suffix. How different are the two fluids? Where can I buy type A? Also as a side note its a two stroke scooter. I dont know anything about two stroke oils. The shop reccomended some type of "synthetic" two stroke oil from a brand I have never heard of. I thought that synthetics at least in four stroke motors dident burn as clean as conventionals? So why would I use a synthetic two stroke oil? Can any one reccomend a good two stroke oil.


So it says it uses Type A ATF? That's fairly ancient. You could probably use Type F ATF without issue, if indeed it takes ATF. I would contact the manufacturer. I did find this:

http://www.tomosmopeds.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1286

As for 2 stroke oil - not sure who told you that stuff, but synthetic 2 stroke oils are excellent at keeping the engine clean. I can recommend some oils, but you probably need to know a bit more about the requirements for your scooter Is it injector or premix? What does the manual/factory say for specifications? What size is the engine?

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#1914870 - 06/06/10 12:34 PM Re: Type A suffix? [Re: ryland]
JayhawkRoy Offline


Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 652
Loc: Basehor, KS
Here's some interesting info from twowheelers.tripod.com:
Subject: Tomos Transmission Lube

The Tomos A35 operator's manual specifies Type A Suffix A Automatic
Transmission Fluid as the correct oil for the automatic gearbox.
Dexron, Dexron II, Dexron IIE and Dexron III are the later versions of
this basic ATF lubricant family. These newer type fluids are superior
for automotive transmissions which have pressure pumps and fluid torque
converters and different types of clutches...However, I would suppose
that the unique design of the Tomos automatic gearbox with drum type
centrifugal clutches and no pressure pump or torque converter would
suggest that the older specification Type A Suffix A fluid which this
transmission was designed around, would be more suitable for long
clutch life and proper gear lubrication! All types of fluid are readily
available in Europe so I would assume that the Tomos engineers have a
reason for recommending the Type A Suffix A product rather than a later
Dexron specification product.

Here in the United States, the Dexron III product has become the
standard and it is almost impossible to find the Type A Suffix A
product!

After an exhaustive search for Type A Suffix A product in the U.S., I
have found only one company which distributes ATF Type A Suffix A
product. For those Tomos owners and dealers in the U.S. who would wish
to purchase this product, here is the information:

Coastal Unilube, Inc.
P.O. Box 2048
West Memphis, Arkansas 72303

Product Part # 11501
Type A Suffix A Automatic Transmission Fluid

The Dexron III fluid has a higher viscosity at 100 degrees C. but
at much cooler normal operating temperature of the fluid in the Tomos
application, I suspect that the Type A fluid is much more viscous
(thicker) than the Dexron III. My perception (which may not be
accurate) is that the whine of the straight cut gears is less with Type
A than it is with Dexron as I have experimented with both...Incidentally
my new machine is a Type A35SL Sprint which is the "2000 model year"
...the label on the frame head says 01/00 (January 2000)......It was
filled from the factory with Type A which I was able to identify by
viscosity and odor which is distinctly different from the Dexron fluids!

Will Dickerson, Lancaster, Ohio


Official reply from Tomos Service Department is as follows:

We recommend any oil for use in the A5 engine's transmission as long as
it's intended for use in automatic transmission application.

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#1915007 - 06/06/10 03:20 PM Re: Type A suffix? [Re: JayhawkRoy]
ryland Offline


Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 656
Loc: Portland, OR
Its a pre mix 50cc motor. Pablo I found this thread about a guy who had a Fiat that specd the same oil. Would the amsoil product you suggested to him work in the moped??

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=959190


Edited by ryland (06/06/10 03:20 PM)

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#1915017 - 06/06/10 03:32 PM Re: Type A suffix? [Re: ryland]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46656
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
In this case this is what I recommend:

Amsoil ART Type F

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#1915022 - 06/06/10 03:38 PM Re: Type A suffix? [Re: Pablo]
ryland Offline


Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 656
Loc: Portland, OR
but isent that just type f? I've read on a few forums that guys have problems with clutches wearing out if you use type f instead of A.

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#1915027 - 06/06/10 03:50 PM Re: Type A suffix? [Re: ryland]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46656
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Originally Posted By: ryland
but isent that just type f? I've read on a few forums that guys have problems with clutches wearing out if you use type f instead of A.


It is Type F, but with a pretty HD gear protection additive package. Frankly the differences between A and F are not huge. Plus, I'm going by this:

Quote:

Official reply from Tomos Service Department is as follows:

We recommend any oil for use in the A5 engine's transmission as long as it's intended for use in automatic transmission application.


It's your call, but I doubt the clutches are wearing out simply because of using Type F vs. Type A. There has to be more to it than that.

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#1915030 - 06/06/10 04:01 PM Re: Type A suffix? [Re: ryland]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14563
Loc: Midwest
I too would choose Type F for the tranny and see if the engagement and shifting is what you want.

I have found Type A in Dollar Stores and similar stores.

For the pre-mix, Amsoil's Interceptor or Redline's All-Sport Two Cycle should do the trick.
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#1915066 - 06/06/10 04:54 PM Re: Type A suffix? [Re: MolaKule]
Chris142 Offline


Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 11369
Loc: apple valley, ca
Local dollar store has lots of "A" ATF right next to the SA engine oil.
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#1915913 - 06/07/10 02:16 PM Re: Type A suffix? [Re: Chris142]
widman Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 3061
Loc: Bolivia
Don't use a Type A fluid. There really isn't a quality standard. Those that are producing it mainly do it for export to countries like this one where people know little. It is spec'd by people who have no idea what it is. You can find VI anywhere from 50 up to 90, no AW, etc.

Just use dexron. I would not use Type F as it is much more aggressive and not a Type A substitute.
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#1917375 - 06/09/10 12:25 AM Re: Type A suffix? [Re: widman]
ryland Offline


Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 656
Loc: Portland, OR
So I've been looking into this a little more and I've seen that the clutch pad material is made from cork. For that reason some people say they use dex III as it has friction modifyers instead of the type F as it supposedly will cause more wear on the clutch pads. What aft would be a better choice with cork pads??

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#1917447 - 06/09/10 05:30 AM Re: Type A suffix? [Re: ryland]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46656
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Cork? Wow.

Well, Dex III probably would allow a bit more slip. Not saying this is better for cork or not though. Maybe Dex III (higher vis one) with some Lubegard FM additive.

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#1917651 - 06/09/10 10:57 AM Re: Type A suffix? [Re: Pablo]
ryland Offline


Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 656
Loc: Portland, OR
this whole atf thing makes me so mad!!! Even people who ride these things a lot have different oppinions on what to use. Guess I'll just have to see for my self. I guess on one hand the f would work and it wouldent be hard to change out the clutches if they did wear out. On the other hand I could try the Dex III and see if it shifts well or if it makes the clutches slip. grrr!!

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#1917722 - 06/09/10 12:22 PM Re: Type A suffix? [Re: ryland]
ryland Offline


Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 656
Loc: Portland, OR
found my answer on the type a. Castrol told me that it turned into dex then dex II and now dex III so any multi that meets dex III.

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