5W-20 vs. 5W-30 vs 10W-30

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quote:

Originally posted by GMorg:
I am amazed that this thread is still going, but I am pleased that it hasn't turned into one of those threads that remind me of monkeys throwing crap at each other. Well done guys!

DUCK!
 
quote:

Originally posted by sinker73:
5W-20 and 5W-30 are both the same viscosity at room temp. They both start with the same base oil--what we designate 5W. The additives that turn it into a 20 or 30 only do so at warmer temps. The additives are little (plastic like) molecules that "unstretch" at warmer temps. When they do so, they "grab" the nearby oil molecules (which are smaller) and thus "thicken" the oil. (BTW, "shearing" is when these large molecules break and no longer "grab" the smaller oil molecules.)

At room temp, when the plastic-like molecules are not spread out, the oils from a can of 5-20 and 5-30 should run the same.


lol, so oil thickens when it gets hot.

That is weird, when I drain my oil out of my hot engine it is like water compared to what it is out of the bottle at room temp.

Ignorance is thick with the new guys.
 
I don't see it as new guys don't know as much as guys who have frquented BITOG addictevely for a long time. We often have a insider drop in and straighten us out.

We are seeing an increase in frequency of new posters who fail to gain the prerequisite knowledge to carry on an intelligent conversation concering motor oil. The knowledge is here on the forum. It takes along time to read it all and a genuine interest willl bear this. Those who fail to research or attempt to understand the material indicate a post and run philosophy. Why after 5 years on this particular format would members repeatedly have to define viscosity for example? Not that questions are not welcomed, I know I for certain look forward to intelligent discussion. I welcome new viewpoints, fresh perspectives and good ideas. We are all here to learn and or teach to further our knowledge of lubricant technology.
 
I did appreciate his definition of shearing. I don't think that's ever been mentioned here before.In the last 4 years. Or in almost 190,000 posts. Maybe I missed it.
rolleyes.gif
 
quote:

Also, your engine doesn't get "used to" an oil.

Well, although there's nothing "adaptive" in the engine, there is surely reactive components in oils that, when switching between one chemistry and another, can result in temporary consumption due to establishing new turf and kicking out the resident formations. I've had this happen myself. Not a change in viscosity ..but chemistry. It could be misinturpretted as being a viscosity depenant result ..but is most likely due to chemistry.

D1 - no consumption for 12.5k
RTS - 3k,(3+3)6k, 9k, (I didn't go to 12k)

So it could "appear" to "get used" to an oil.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Bryanccfshr:
I don't see it as new guys don't know as much as guys who have frquented BITOG addictevely for a long time. We often have a insider drop in and straighten us out.

We are seeing an increase in frequency of new posters who fail to gain the prerequisite knowledge to carry on an intelligent conversation concering motor oil. The knowledge is here on the forum. It takes along time to read it all and a genuine interest willl bear this. Those who fail to research or attempt to understand the material indicate a post and run philosophy. Why after 5 years on this particular format would members repeatedly have to define viscosity for example? Not that questions are not welcomed, I know I for certain look forward to intelligent discussion. I welcome new viewpoints, fresh perspectives and good ideas. We are all here to learn and or teach to further our knowledge of lubricant technology.


I agree, it just gets frustrating when someone just drops into the forums and "tells us what the true information" is.

I am no professional and never will think I am, I learn daily here.

I just wish people would read more before they jump into a hot debate and school us that know better.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Bryanccfshr:
I don't see it as new guys don't know as much as guys who have frquented BITOG addictevely for a long time. We often have a insider drop in and straighten us out.

We are seeing an increase in frequency of new posters who fail to gain the prerequisite knowledge to carry on an intelligent conversation concering motor oil. The knowledge is here on the forum. It takes along time to read it all and a genuine interest willl bear this. Those who fail to research or attempt to understand the material indicate a post and run philosophy. Why after 5 years on this particular format would members repeatedly have to define viscosity for example? Not that questions are not welcomed, I know I for certain look forward to intelligent discussion. I welcome new viewpoints, fresh perspectives and good ideas. We are all here to learn and or teach to further our knowledge of lubricant technology.


Why are you guys taking the time to explain basic concepts that a new member could learn on his own (if he tried)? Bottom line, an oil can be both thinner AND thicker than another oil depending on temp. W-rating has nothing to do with it, clear enough?
 
quote:

Originally posted by sinker73:
5W-20 and 5W-30 are both the same viscosity at room temp. They both start with the same base oil--what we designate 5W. The additives that turn it into a 20 or 30 only do so at warmer temps. The additives are little (plastic like) molecules that "unstretch" at warmer temps. When they do so, they "grab" the nearby oil molecules (which are smaller) and thus "thicken" the oil. (BTW, "shearing" is when these large molecules break and no longer "grab" the smaller oil molecules.)

At room temp, when the plastic-like molecules are not spread out, the oils from a can of 5-20 and 5-30 should run the same.


Room temp isn't where the "5W" is calibrated.
The 5W refers to oil properties at -25 F or so.
Also, the base oil is NOT usually 5W.
It would be typical for a 5W30 to be a 10W or 20W, then have pour point depressants added to improve starting, and have more additives put in to improve its viscosity index and make the "30" part accurate.
 
sxg6, BlazerLT, and GMorg: Lighten up and attempt to answer the post if any of you can. The post can't get answered in the other thread as it is closed. I hope it can be answered here. If not then it must be true in its entirety.

[ May 19, 2006, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: Buford T. Justice ]
 
i liked your inital comments before you edited the post. anyways, i do sincerely apologize if i have rubbed you the wrong way. i just find it humorous that you posted the exact same thing in this thread. i will keep the comments to myself from now on though.
 
Maybe if you posed an intelligent question we would give you an intelligent answer.

It is a give and take relationship we have here Buford.

Smart to edit you telling us to kiss you *** there.
 
Relax. It's all good, yo ..all good
grin.gif
Buford is just curious. He's had all his conceptual view of oil turned upside down.

"He's gots to know!"
(I know what you're thinkin' ..was it a 5w or a 10w ..well to tell you the truth I kinda forget what was on the bottle. So, you have to ask yourself, "Do you feel lucky?"
grin.gif
)
 
you guys crack me up
lol.gif

how about this story

way back when *** made dirt there were a few straight grade oils 5,10,15,20,30.

they were fine unless it got real cold then they gelled up.

Someguy (ethyl) said hey we can add a PPD and now that 10wt oil will flow down to -30F lets call it a 10W (for Winter) since it is a PPD 10wt and still has the same hot vis etc.

Then someguy (parimins) said hey I can take that 5W oil and add a VII so now it will flow at the low temp of the 10w (winter) but will not thin out SO MUCH at the high 100C temps and will be in the 30 wt range lets call it a 10w/30 oil.

sound simple?
bruce
 
quote:

[/qb]

Why are you guys taking the time to explain basic concepts that a new member could learn on his own (if he tried)? Bottom line, an oil can be both thinner AND thicker than another oil depending on temp. W-rating has nothing to do with it, clear enough? [/QB][/QUOTE]
I know, I know... I just get irritated at the lack of effort but can understand the confusion when someones conceptual reality is turned upside down.
 
dunno.gif


I dunno..

There are eight or 10 here that KNOW..

A bunch more are here that THINK they know, but don't know, and don't know that they don't know. And then there are the reasonable ones like me, who don't know, and know they don't know, don't pretend to know, and will always defer to those that DO know..

When it come to oil itself, I don't even know enough to even ask the questions. But it's a kicker to watch those that don't know try to show their know, ya know?
lol.gif
 
quote:

Originally posted by FD777:
Blah, I didn't read the entire thread, but I think I get the gist of it.

I try to clear up some of the confusions here:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=51;t=000945

My thread doesn't directly address Buford's questions, but I hope it helps.


Excellent thread! I have known that some 5W-30s, particularly Mobil 1, are thicker than the same brand of 10W-30.

I think I should have stated something earlier. I like to take my car on about a 20-30 minute drive before I change my oil. I currently use Mobil 1 5W-30 and have always used that weight in my car. When I remove the oil pan drain plug, the oil runs out like water. It is not what I would consider as being thick. I think the point I have been trying to elude to is that I wonder why 5W-20 is now becoming the norm. Meaning isn't 5W-30 superb for today's cars? Meaning 5W-30 is pretty thin when hot and offers the same cold protection since both are 5W. In other words, how can a thinner version (5W-20) of an oil that is already pretty thin (5W-30) be any better?
 
One more thing in regards to CAFE. If it is being mandated for vehicle manufacturers to use 5W-20 or not they pay fines, why does GM and numerous other vehicles still use 5W-30?
 
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