Long Term Use of Marvel Mystery Oil?

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I have experimented with back-to-back runs of Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 with and without 20% Marvel Mystery Oil in my 2003 Cadillac Deville with a Northstar 4.6L engine. I have posted the UOA information on these approximately 5000 mile runs in the Used Oil Analysis - Gasoline forum. All the wear numbers looked good for all the runs, with slightly better iron (7 instead of 9) and copper (4 instead of 5) numbers for the ones with the Marvel Mystery Oil.

My awareness of Marvel Mystery Oil being used to solve problems - like dealing with valve lifter noise - and being used to generally clean engine internals spans more than 40 years, but I've never before thought about using it all the time. I am now.

I have seen it work well for what it does many times, but I've also seen it make leaks in some older engines significantly worse while it was in them. That hasn't been a problem with this engine, though.

So my questions are:

Is the improvement from 9 to 7 in iron a reason to continue using Marvel Mystery Oil in otherwise normal oil changes?

If Marvel Mystery Oil is used routinely for oil changes, will there be any difference in seal and/or gasket leaking at high mileage?
 
The differance means nothing. You are talking about 2 PPM. If you used another company to do the UOA your results would be differant anyway. Save your UOA dollars and buy another oil change. Also if your engine is clean to start with I wouldn't use MMO in oil at all. I'm sure Shell would advise against it.
 
Originally Posted By: ronrackley
I have experimented with back-to-back runs of Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 with and without 20% Marvel Mystery Oil in my 2003 Cadillac Deville with a Northstar 4.6L engine. I have posted the UOA information on these approximately 5000 mile runs in the Used Oil Analysis - Gasoline forum. All the wear numbers looked good for all the runs, with slightly better iron (7 instead of 9) and copper (4 instead of 5) numbers for the ones with the Marvel Mystery Oil.

My awareness of Marvel Mystery Oil being used to solve problems - like dealing with valve lifter noise - and being used to generally clean engine internals spans more than 40 years, but I've never before thought about using it all the time. I am now.

I have seen it work well for what it does many times, but I've also seen it make leaks in some older engines significantly worse while it was in them. That hasn't been a problem with this engine, though.

So my questions are:

Is the improvement from 9 to 7 in iron a reason to continue using Marvel Mystery Oil in otherwise normal oil changes?

If Marvel Mystery Oil is used routinely for oil changes, will there be any difference in seal and/or gasket leaking at high mileage?


.... So, basically you have had cars where it "Ate the Gaskets" with MMO in it? Or.. If you feel your Gaskets can "Take it" you put Marvel Mystery oil in.. If not, you dont?

I think MMO "Cleans" Gradually, but still has Solvent-like properties. I suppose your point: It can "Solvent" right through Brittle Gaskets? (or not?)

You must be speaking of Neglected Engine to want to seek using it! In that case.. its like rolling the dice?
 
Quote:
Is the improvement from 9 to 7 in iron a reason to continue using Marvel Mystery Oil in otherwise normal oil changes?


A drift of +/-2ppm is well within the testing/sampling variable. You can glean no insight from that extremely limited difference.

Otherwise, M1 would be prohibitive in any engine since it can add 3-5ppm of Fe all by itself without a darn thing being wrong at all.

That is, you can also have a +/-2ppm with absolutely nothing being "more right".

In alterations like this ( where metals are more or less identical ) you need to focus on the basics. Visc, TBN, Flash point, insolubles.

If you really want to measure the impact of MMO in that concentration, use a lab that provides oxidation/nitration numbers ..TAN ..and all things that add further insight into the oil condition.

I'd say the same thing if the readings were skewed against MMO. One swallow does not the summer make. I would wait for the second application to judge if the increase in metal indicators was a one time "shock blip" or the establishment of an new trend.

I too see no need for MMO without some issue that you're trying to correct.

That said, I will concede that ( based on the apparent evidence/details/data ) that there was no apparent downside to the usage.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

That said, I will concede that ( based on the apparent evidence/details/data ) that there was no apparent downside to the usage.


LOL
That's big coming from you Gary! J/K {Lets hope I can convey I'm fooling around now}.......
banana2.gif
lol.gif


I would give it another try, only because there are a few OCI's on the board with MMO that were also good, the question comes up that it lowers TBN. IMO the improvement is probably a statistical blip, but the engine is getting cleaned up and nothing is being harmed in the process.

Anyway enjoy the Holiday Weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!

Frank
 
Originally Posted By: LTrippett
.... So, basically you have had cars where it "Ate the Gaskets" with MMO in it? Or.. If you feel your Gaskets can "Take it" you put Marvel Mystery oil in.. If not, you dont?


No, I'm not saying that I have seen it eat gaskets. I have seen cars that were using significant oil because they had leaks already use more and leave more noticeable drip spots with MMO in them and then go back to the way they were once it was out. I was using it two or three years ago in a 2000 Cadillac Deville Northstar I owned that had the cold start-up carbon knock problem at about 140,000 miles if I remember correctly. I put MMO in the oil and the gas and the noise went away in a few days - and never came back. The engine had been using about a quart of oil every 1500 miles with obvious leaks because the bottom was always wet with oil - as was the case with many older Northstars. The oil useage about doubled with the MMO in that engine and I saw more drops on the concrete driveway. Then it went back to the way it had been when I changed back to just oil after a thousand miles or so. It is like MMO is very good at finding its way out of leaks.

I am not saying that I have seen MMO eat gaskets. I'm wondering if it would if it were used all the time, though.
 
As most know here I am a big fan of MMO. My experience with in cars that leak is this. The leak might get slightly worse when the MMO is in the engine, and then once the MMO comes out the leak returns to "normal", meaning the same as before. I think it does a fantastic job cleaning, as well as freeing up lifters. What I would consider trying for a car that leaks is an MMO clean up followed by a HM oil or something designed to stop leaks if replacing the bad gasket is not an option. JMO

If you visit the MMO website they tested the product with all gasket and seal making materials and it is harmless to them.


JMO
 
A leak increase with MMO in the crankcase is understandable because it is so thin.
I have no problem using MMO in the crankcase here and there, or for special needs. The unseen ring area gets dirty and can always use help. And if there is other varnish or sludge, it can be useful.
But engine oils are quite good now, and even better in the future concerning cleaning, and keeping things clean.
So MMO every OCI is not something I would do.
 
To those who say that modern oils are wonderful and meet all needs, and/or say that proper regular oil changes will avoid issues...

Well - when your car burns oil due to previous owner's lack of maintenance, or due to engine design such that it sludges up - you start looking at all kinds of possible solutions short of tearing off the head etc. etc. That's my situation.

Our family drove nothing but Volvo 240s for nearly 15 years, never a problem with oil burning, over many hundreds of thousands of miles. Now we have a Civic and an Accord, and the Civic burns oil. But I still like the Civic so I'm working with it.
 
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Originally Posted By: pennzoil_guru
If you use a good quality oil from day one in any vehicle and change your oil at the manufacturers specified intervals, I see no need to use any oil additives.


You are EXACTLY RIGHT, but you will encounter the wrath of the additive maniacs with this statement. It is sacrilege to say MMO is unnecessary here!
 
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: pennzoil_guru
If you use a good quality oil from day one in any vehicle and change your oil at the manufacturers specified intervals, I see no need to use any oil additives.


You are EXACTLY RIGHT, but you will encounter the wrath of the additive maniacs with this statement. It is sacrilege to say MMO is unnecessary here!


Additive Maniac here- If you are fortunate enough to buy new cars and care for them from day one, I agree, for the most part. If you are lucky enough to buy problem free perfect used cars and continue to properly maintain them, I agree again, for the most part. But.........................................not everyone is lucky and fortunate all the time. Don't forget sludge prone cars either, but then maybe fortunate people, are smart enough to know in advance about sludge prone cars and stay clear of them, all the time. Or maybe you are the kind of person who buys a car and doesn't care, just as long as it gets from point A to point B, then just gas her up and go, change the oil once in a while and be happy. And lastly don't knock it till you try it, hopefully you'll never need it.

Happy New Year Guys!
 
In my opinion, it would be difficult to prove that MMO caused some sort of catastrophic engine failure. We could probably say it was lubrication related, but that doesn't necessarily point to MMO.
 
I disagree with the changing oil is all you need statements. I have had 2 previous cars who saw 3,000 mile OCIs their entire life from new. One car the rings got stuck and compression went below factory specs. Another, sludged up shortly after 100k. Both cars were returned to factory floor performance with some additives.

Combine that with the fact I have used additives in new cars starting at 15k and saw measurable improvements in MPG, idle fuel consumption, and decrease fuel dilution.
 
As has been stated by another member, the reason a leak may worsen when MMO is added is because of the thinning effect it has. For most people this is a non-issue, and possibly even a benefit; but if there is a leak anywhere, then thinned oil will find its way through it in a greater volume meaning more oil loss over the OCI. Nothing complicated or worth getting hysterical about, and hardly any kind of indicator that MMO is "eating gaskets" when the oil loss returns to normal once the oil is changed.

I wouldn't even consider that a contra-indication to run MMO if I felt the engine would benefit from it; instead I would simply step up the monitoring of the oil level and top up as necessary until the OCI was complete and the MMO drained out.

It has its place and its uses. As with anything else, one should be familiar with what they are adding to the crankcase, what it does, and in an instance like this, what may also occur and why.

And I believe that additives like MMO do have their place and their uses. Its simply another tool to solve problems some of us have had to deal with. No more, no less.

-Spyder
 
Well oil consumption definitely went up with MMO in the oil. And it went back to normal, maybe better, after the next change. My theory is that the thin MMO runs through quickly; what is left behind is the regular oil.

The car developed a seriously uneven idle. Adjusting the valves helped; some were too tight and some too loose. Just possibly, running MMO brought this about by cleaning out crud in the valve seats or on the valves themselves. (I also had it in the fuel, 4 oz per 10 gallons, per the MMO bottle label.)
 
plus or minus 2 is such a minute number in terms of uoa's. it coulda been the time of day the sample was taken, almost. I would use it to top off during the last thousand miles or so, and put some in your gas, but i wouldn't be subbing a quart out at every change if you don;t need to problem solve.
 
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