The best oil for my bike?

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Originally Posted By: heavyhitter

Here is some food for thought.
RMP is'nt everything when it come to friction either. Example my bike has a redline of 5k RPM. I have 2 HUGE pistons with a LONG stroke. My bike at redline has a higher moving piston speed than a CBR929RR at redline. So even though the CBR is moving at more than double the RPM of my bike, my pistons are moving faster and longer with the potential for more friction generated.


All huge piston long stroke engines have a more generous clearance than a ultra high rpm bike. Friction vs. RPM is not a linear function so your comparison is flawed.
 
boraticus I'm certain that 95% of the experienced riders will agree with me.[/quote said:
I will agree

-I will also agree that while Rotella or any other hdeo may not be "the best" (read $$$$$) oil for my bike, it is not causing any harm, im saving money, and my bikes have run fine on it and continue to do so. Fine by me.
 
Gentleman ... gentleman ...

My workday is finally done and I'm on my second glass of red wine. I'm in the mood to be a philosopher. Indulge me for a minute.
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As I stated earlier, the original post had a bit of an internal contradiction. He said "best oil," then expressed concern about the price of Honda GN4. So clearly the cost/benefit issue was on his mind.

I'll agree with azsynthetic that there are high performance oils out there that may well have qualities superior to Rotella or other HDEOs. I'm not at all clear what makes them superior, but I suspect there's something in there.

There are many on this forum who will say that Rotella is superior to Honda GN4. It's the same general argument -- one oil is better than the other.

We came to consensus earlier that is a range of performance profiles within the "motorcycle specific" oil. That suggests that just because an oil labels itself as "motorcycle" does not necessarily mean it's "the best." Heck, even Amsoil's famous motorcycle oil comparison test has some well-known motorcycle oils performing fairly low on the evaluation scale.

All things in life are evaluated on a cost/benefit basis. All things. That's basic economics; that's basic human nature. If I were to come up with a magical high-performance oil that meant no wear whatever, but I priced it at $1,000,000 per quart, no racing team in the world would buy it.

Whether most motorcyclists will admit to it or not, they're making cost/benefit trade-offs all the time with their bike. All products have a range of prices and claimed benefits. Oil is one of them.

Each person has a cost/benefit balance they're looking to strike. Some are more inclined towards the benefit side of the equation; some the cost side. The original poster leaned to cost -- Honda GN4 is relatively cheap oil, and it was still a concern to him.

Me? I have a $20,000 Goldwing sitting out in the garage and I'm perfectly happy to have $11/gallon Rotella 15W-40 conventional oil in it. My UOAs show the engine is wearing well. I don't claim Rotella is the best oil possible; nor do I claim it is the best price/performer. "sunruh" on this forum has shown that Wal-Mart SuperTech seems to perform as well as Rotella, perhaps better. Go figure. :)

From a pure geek-head point of view -- and I'm no engineer -- I'm just fascinated by what might make an oil better than others. There's the base stock, of course, and we could argue all day about the various flavors of that. Then there's the additive compounds, and the proportion of compounds, and the effects of the interactions, etc. This is what lubrication engineers wrestle with.

I'm quite certain there is no one ingredient that is the key. Otherwise, everyone would jump on that bandwagon.

When Rotella went from CI-4+ to CJ-4, they appeared to drop the zinc and phosphorus a bit (probably to get their ash level down to meet CJ-4 specs), but they added tons of boron. I don't know what boron does. I'm curious to know.

So ... azsynthetic ... you make the argument there are finely engineered oils out there that are preferred by professional racers. That may well be true. And the oil may well be the edge that puts them in the winner's circle. I'm not entirely convinced of that, but I'll not dismiss it either.

I'm less persuaded by the argument that small-bore air-cooled engines in the desert and southeast Asia are all -- or most -- running expensive oils. My guess is some are, but not all. Some are probably running whatever is cheapest. They may not have the exact wear profiles as the more expensive oil users, but it may be perfectly good enough for them.

And that is the key -- use what oil meets your individual cost/benefit threshold and move on.

This wine is good ... and it's a box wine. $14/five-liters. It's not the best I've had, but it's good enough for a glass after work. There it is again ... that cost/benefit balance.
 
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Nicely done Don.

Haha, I like your reasoning for editing!!

P.S.
Which box wine? I've only ever had the Almaden Mountain Burgandy and Peter Vella Chardonnay, which I admit was not bad at all, somewhat comprable to KJ Chard.
 
Nicely put TusconDon.

Now tell us, does the label on the wine box have a picture of Dom Perignon sipping a glass of his finest or just Joe Monk hammering back a flagon of second rate swill? It matters you know...
 
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Originally Posted By: 02zx9r
Which box wine? I've only ever had the Almaden Mountain Burgandy and Peter Vella Chardonnay, which I admit was not bad at all, somewhat comprable to KJ Chard.
It's the Almaden Cabernet Savignon. I prefer it to the Merlot.

My favorite red is a good Red Zinfandel ... not the White Zin ... hate that. But a good Red Zin has a nice peppery taste that stands up well to spicy dishes.

What I'd really love to find is a box Chianti. I've only recently discovered Chianti, and I find it's a terrific dry red that really, really goes well with an Italian red sauce. Love it.

Originally Posted By: boraticus
Now tell us, does the label on the wine box have a picture of Dom Perignon sipping a glass of his finest or just Joe Monk hammering back a flagon of second rate swill? It matters you know...
It has a picture of a grease-monkey changing the oil in a 1972 Triumph cafe racer ... and he's got a jug of that cheap junk you see in Circle-K's that's rated "Non Detergent" SA. Funny ... he doesn't seem worried.
LOL.gif


Actually, it's interesting about the box design of the Almaden. It used to have a colorful design, then they switched to a black background with gold lettering. Partly to "class up" the wine, no doubt. But also to differentiate it from "Franzia," which has a box design very close to the old Almaden. Now Almaden is clearly recognizable on the shelf as different from Franzia.
 
I'd run 5W-40 RTS in it. I ran 15W-40 in my 750 Shadow ('02 model), and it started smoking in 6,000 miles/ < 1 year. I rode it hard, but changed the oil every 800 - 1200 miles. I think these bikes want a synthetic if you are gonna run them hard.
 
Originally Posted By: TucsonDon

I'm less persuaded by the argument that small-bore air-cooled engines in the desert and southeast Asia are all -- or most -- running expensive oils. My guess is some are, but not all. Some are probably running whatever is cheapest. They may not have the exact wear profiles as the more expensive oil users, but it may be perfectly good enough for them.

And that is the key -- use what oil meets your individual cost/benefit threshold and move on.


If you google "overloaded bike in Asia" you will be surprised as to what people are doing with small underbone bikes. The one that can afford it will run the best oils that they can find. I was pleasantly surprised to see Motul, Maxima, Shell, etc. racing oils in bike shops in Singapore, Malaysia, Philippines, Taiwan, etc..... Bikes are not a big thing here in the US, but oversea it is their culture and their way of making a living.

Realistic speaking, not very many riders know the actual cost/benefit threshold since they do not know the true benefit of a given oil. Most just guessed or based their conclusion on what they've read on the internet. Very few actually go to races all over the world and talk to professional racers, engine builders, factory race team, oil manufacturer reps, etc.
 
Originally Posted By: TucsonDon
Originally Posted By: 02zx9r
Which box wine? I've only ever had the Almaden Mountain Burgandy and Peter Vella Chardonnay, which I admit was not bad at all, somewhat comprable to KJ Chard.
It's the Almaden Cabernet Savignon. I prefer it to the Merlot.

My favorite red is a good Red Zinfandel ... not the White Zin ... hate that. But a good Red Zin has a nice peppery taste that stands up well to spicy dishes.

What I'd really love to find is a box Chianti. I've only recently discovered Chianti, and I find it's a terrific dry red that really, really goes well with an Italian red sauce. Love it.

Originally Posted By: boraticus
Now tell us, does the label on the wine box have a picture of Dom Perignon sipping a glass of his finest or just Joe Monk hammering back a flagon of second rate swill? It matters you know...
It has a picture of a grease-monkey changing the oil in a 1972 Triumph cafe racer ... and he's got a jug of that cheap junk you see in Circle-K's that's rated "Non Detergent" SA. Funny ... he doesn't seem worried.
LOL.gif


Actually, it's interesting about the box design of the Almaden. It used to have a colorful design, then they switched to a black background with gold lettering. Partly to "class up" the wine, no doubt. But also to differentiate it from "Franzia," which has a box design very close to the old Almaden. Now Almaden is clearly recognizable on the shelf as different from Franzia.


Hey Don, should probably Pm, but yes I myself prefer Red Zins and Pinot Noirs. If you somewhat like Pinot's, I recommend BearBoat Pinot Noir. I have worked part time at a Liquor store for the past 8 years and really wasnt a wine drinker until I started.
-I used to just stick with what I knew and liked-Fetzer Merlot and Blackstone Merlot, two good Merlots (I think) for around $10/bottle. A buddy and I used to have this running joke that if a bottle was under $20 it was "c rap" but we know that is not true. There are a lot of decent wines in the $10-$15 range.

-I have about 50 bottles in my "collection" if you will, most are in the $20-$40 range with the highest at $65 (Cakebread Cellars Merlot). Greg Norman makes really good wines too.

-I have had a few Chiantis here and there, mostly the Ruffinos. They have some $8 bottles up to over $40 bottles. This one couple always come in and get a bottle of Sharfenberger Champaigne and Terra Nostra Chianti, always!

- I will look and see what we have and what is available for any box Chiantis, if they do exist. We sell a lot of the Almaden, Franzia, Peter Vella box wines. Black Box sells pretty well as well.

Sorry for the
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discussion
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Nicely put TusconDon.

Now tell us, does the label on the wine box have a picture of Dom Perignon sipping a glass of his finest or just Joe Monk hammering back a flagon of second rate swill? It matters you know...


thumbsup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Very few actually go to races all over the world and talk to professional racers, engine builders, factory race team, oil manufacturer reps, etc.


Care to share your experiences going to races all over the world and talking to professional racers, engine builders, factory race team, oil manufacturer reps, etc??

Just interested is all. Envious is more like it.
 
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My job takes me all over the world and if there is a motorized race of any kind then I am there. I actually spent more time in the pit area than in the race stand. At pretty much any major races anywhere in the world you can just go up to the manufacturer displays and talk to the factory reps. If any thing you can always look at the pretty models and get their signatures. Beside Laguna Seca in July and Indianapolis in August, I am planning on the Australian and Malaysian MotoGp in October. I imported a Honda 600RR into Malaysia to use as a commuter bike but ended up selling it and bought a Suzuki 125. The traffic was so bad in Kuala Lampua I could never shift out of 2nd gear in the 600.
 
Awesome, some people are just fortunate enough to be in a position like that.

Valentino will take the title yet for another time. But there is hope still for Colin yet!!!!!!!!!
 
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
If any thing you can always look at the pretty models and get their signatures.
There it is ... something we can totally agree on.
LOL.gif
 
Wow! Thanks for all the input. Ok I did my oil change with the Honda GN4 as I done bought it when I originally posted. I dont know what oil was in the bike when I bought it but it seems the fan kicks on alot more often when running in 1st and 2nd gear speeds that I didnt notice before I put the GN4 in it. What would be the reason for this? Oil not as good as oil previosly used? I wish I knew what was in it but no way to tell. Thanks!
 
Maybe because it's now hotter in Arkansas than it was a few weeks ago?
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Some oils claim to provide lower operating temperatures. I don't know how that would work, but I suppose others might be able to explain it.

That GN4 is good oil. Not "the best," but certain good enough. Enjoy your motorcycle!
 
Well its that time of year again guys. I think I will try the Rotella T 15w-40 this time as most of you recommended last year but I had already used the GN4. Anyone got any other input its welcome. Anyone know of a place online to buy a OEM Honda oil filter for this 2003 Shadow ACE 750? Thanks!
 
Lorenzo has been handing Valentino his but in his AGV lately. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.... Go Nicky!!!!!!
 
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