Catch-can effectiveness varies with the design of the catch-cans; a number of Audi forum members have seen a dramatic decrease in intake-valve deposits through the use of well-designed catch-cans. It would be nice if the manufacturers incorporated complete solutions with their direct-injection engines so that the engines don't prematurely require major service work, but I suppose the cynic in me assumes that the manufacturers are only concerned if they have to cover any failures during the warranty/factory-supplied-maintenance period...
Is carbon buildup a myth nowadays?
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Originally Posted By: Mullard_EL34
Catch-can effectiveness varies with the design of the catch-cans; a number of Audi forum members have seen a dramatic decrease in intake-valve deposits through the use of well-designed catch-cans. It would be nice if the manufacturers incorporated complete solutions with their direct-injection engines so that the engines don't prematurely require major service work, but I suppose the cynic in me assumes that the manufacturers are only concerned if they have to cover any failures during the warranty/factory-supplied-maintenance period...
you nailed it.
Catch-can effectiveness varies with the design of the catch-cans; a number of Audi forum members have seen a dramatic decrease in intake-valve deposits through the use of well-designed catch-cans. It would be nice if the manufacturers incorporated complete solutions with their direct-injection engines so that the engines don't prematurely require major service work, but I suppose the cynic in me assumes that the manufacturers are only concerned if they have to cover any failures during the warranty/factory-supplied-maintenance period...
you nailed it.
Carbon build up used to be more of a problem.
Leaded fuel with no alcohol and other additives built up with rich running engines.
BUT, it was much easier to get rid of. It is softer and fluffier than what modern cars get.
Modern cars get less build up, but it is HARD and tough to get rid of.
Since it's best to keep the CC and valves clean, a good cleaner run through the tank once or twice a year is good maintenance.
Leaded fuel with no alcohol and other additives built up with rich running engines.
BUT, it was much easier to get rid of. It is softer and fluffier than what modern cars get.
Modern cars get less build up, but it is HARD and tough to get rid of.
Since it's best to keep the CC and valves clean, a good cleaner run through the tank once or twice a year is good maintenance.
Carbon build-up all depends on climate & driving style.
The granny who lives in the great white north and never goes above 30MPH on her 2 mile trip daily will most likely see it in some form.
The person zooming down the highway for 30 mins everyday at 85F ambient most likely will not.
Like was said earlier modern engines keep strict control on fueling for emissions alone so it isn't unreasonable to think that excessive carbon is fixed right there.
High-rpm stints are what a car was designed to do. Sustained high-rpm (near redline) driving is not. There is nothing wrong bringing the engine to full bore once at full temp. The problems are caused by those unwilling to wait for full temp and keep it there for a sustained time(track use). I think people still don't understand what a tachometer is really especially in an automatic.
You can't hurt the engine by staying within it's rpm safe zone.
There are numerous OTS cleaners avail to help prevent but by using a Top Tier fuel you are already there.
The granny who lives in the great white north and never goes above 30MPH on her 2 mile trip daily will most likely see it in some form.
The person zooming down the highway for 30 mins everyday at 85F ambient most likely will not.
Like was said earlier modern engines keep strict control on fueling for emissions alone so it isn't unreasonable to think that excessive carbon is fixed right there.
High-rpm stints are what a car was designed to do. Sustained high-rpm (near redline) driving is not. There is nothing wrong bringing the engine to full bore once at full temp. The problems are caused by those unwilling to wait for full temp and keep it there for a sustained time(track use). I think people still don't understand what a tachometer is really especially in an automatic.
You can't hurt the engine by staying within it's rpm safe zone.
There are numerous OTS cleaners avail to help prevent but by using a Top Tier fuel you are already there.
Newer cars don't get as many carbon deposits for a number of reason. Carbon buildup in the combustion chamber is reduced because electronic fuel injection allows the engine to run much leaner than a carburetor which leads to less free carbon in the exhaust gases. Also valve guides leak less are are less likely to cause deposits on the backs of valve head. Some older engines may not have even used valve guide seals, they just had an umbrella. Modern valve guide seals are positive type seals that let much less oil past the valve guide. Also gasoline is much, much better than it was 20 years ago so 'gunky build-up', as Shell likes to put it, is much reduced. Also modern gasoline has much more detergents.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Shell gasoline should already be E10. They claim that they meet the requirements of Top Tier Gasoline: http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html
And one of the requirements is between 8% and 10% ethanol by volume: http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html
So unless they're fradulently claiming to meet the Top Tier Gasoline standard, Shell gas is between E8 and E10.
Whether or not the ethanol is a requirement has been debated before, here. Some claim it's open to interpretation.
I do know, however, that there is no ethanol in Shell premium fuel in my province, and Shell gas is certified as top tier in this country, too.
This province's regulations allow a loophole for retailers to sell premium ethanol-free if they so choose. There must be a certain average ethanol content (I believe 7.5%) in the volume of total gasoline sold. Since regular outsells premium by a substantial margin, E-10 regular allows for ethanol-free premium.
Shell gasoline should already be E10. They claim that they meet the requirements of Top Tier Gasoline: http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html
And one of the requirements is between 8% and 10% ethanol by volume: http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html
So unless they're fradulently claiming to meet the Top Tier Gasoline standard, Shell gas is between E8 and E10.
Whether or not the ethanol is a requirement has been debated before, here. Some claim it's open to interpretation.
I do know, however, that there is no ethanol in Shell premium fuel in my province, and Shell gas is certified as top tier in this country, too.
This province's regulations allow a loophole for retailers to sell premium ethanol-free if they so choose. There must be a certain average ethanol content (I believe 7.5%) in the volume of total gasoline sold. Since regular outsells premium by a substantial margin, E-10 regular allows for ethanol-free premium.
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Originally Posted By: Garak
Whether or not the ethanol is a requirement has been debated before, here. Some claim it's open to interpretation.
I do know, however, that there is no ethanol in Shell premium fuel in my province, and Shell gas is certified as top tier in this country, too.
This province's regulations allow a loophole for retailers to sell premium ethanol-free if they so choose. There must be a certain average ethanol content (I believe 7.5%) in the volume of total gasoline sold. Since regular outsells premium by a substantial margin, E-10 regular allows for ethanol-free premium.
The Shell V-Power in Ontario is also ethanol free, thankfully, as I find my gas mileage drops by 10% when I use a fuel with ethanol in it. I just hope Shell keeps their premium this way forever!
Whether or not the ethanol is a requirement has been debated before, here. Some claim it's open to interpretation.
I do know, however, that there is no ethanol in Shell premium fuel in my province, and Shell gas is certified as top tier in this country, too.
This province's regulations allow a loophole for retailers to sell premium ethanol-free if they so choose. There must be a certain average ethanol content (I believe 7.5%) in the volume of total gasoline sold. Since regular outsells premium by a substantial margin, E-10 regular allows for ethanol-free premium.
The Shell V-Power in Ontario is also ethanol free, thankfully, as I find my gas mileage drops by 10% when I use a fuel with ethanol in it. I just hope Shell keeps their premium this way forever!
The majority of people around here say that conventional is just fine for my Sienna with 5K OCI. I was planning on paying the difference in price and telling them to put in M1 during the free services, but unless there is absolutely no mechanical benefit to it, I may not. Thanks for the info everyone. [/quote]
Well maybe this will switch you over? Conventional oil is from the ground and we all know what disasters have happened over the last month!
Synthetic is man made and does not leak billions of gallons into our oceans! I still can not understand why it took so long to fix that. And now i here that Kevin Costner has invented a machine to separate water from oil! [censored], Kevin Costner?
Well maybe this will switch you over? Conventional oil is from the ground and we all know what disasters have happened over the last month!
Synthetic is man made and does not leak billions of gallons into our oceans! I still can not understand why it took so long to fix that. And now i here that Kevin Costner has invented a machine to separate water from oil! [censored], Kevin Costner?
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Originally Posted By: Mullard_EL34
Catch-can effectiveness varies with the design of the catch-cans; a number of Audi forum members have seen a dramatic decrease in intake-valve deposits through the use of well-designed catch-cans. It would be nice if the manufacturers incorporated complete solutions with their direct-injection engines so that the engines don't prematurely require major service work, but I suppose the cynic in me assumes that the manufacturers are only concerned if they have to cover any failures during the warranty/factory-supplied-maintenance period...
Finally an Audi guy to back up my claim that the direct injection is an issue for the 2.0T
Catch-can effectiveness varies with the design of the catch-cans; a number of Audi forum members have seen a dramatic decrease in intake-valve deposits through the use of well-designed catch-cans. It would be nice if the manufacturers incorporated complete solutions with their direct-injection engines so that the engines don't prematurely require major service work, but I suppose the cynic in me assumes that the manufacturers are only concerned if they have to cover any failures during the warranty/factory-supplied-maintenance period...
Finally an Audi guy to back up my claim that the direct injection is an issue for the 2.0T
Originally Posted By: SERonBLAST
Well maybe this will switch you over? Conventional oil is from the ground and we all know what disasters have happened over the last month!
Switch me over from what? Syn to dino? I'm still unsure of the cost difference for the free services, but I'll probably go with M1 just because I'm a freak. I know, I know, just leave me alone
Well maybe this will switch you over? Conventional oil is from the ground and we all know what disasters have happened over the last month!
Switch me over from what? Syn to dino? I'm still unsure of the cost difference for the free services, but I'll probably go with M1 just because I'm a freak. I know, I know, just leave me alone
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Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
but as a fuel, E10 isn't so bad.
It's worth noting that while E10 results in a slight (~3.9%) decrease in MPG, it does return about a 1% increase in power. The stoichiometric ratio for ethanol is considerably lower than for gasoline.
but as a fuel, E10 isn't so bad.
It's worth noting that while E10 results in a slight (~3.9%) decrease in MPG, it does return about a 1% increase in power. The stoichiometric ratio for ethanol is considerably lower than for gasoline.
It's worse than 3.9% in every vehicle we own!
Quote:
Synthetic is man made and does not leak billions of gallons into our oceans! I still can not understand why it took so long to fix that. And now i here that Kevin Costner has invented a machine to separate water from oil! [censored], Kevin Costner?
Sorry, synthetics come from ground just the same as dino oils, nothing on this planet is "man made", everything we produce comes from something and most of it is from ground.
We’re not at the fusion reactor and replicator level yet, so wee need to keep digging.
Synthetic is man made and does not leak billions of gallons into our oceans! I still can not understand why it took so long to fix that. And now i here that Kevin Costner has invented a machine to separate water from oil! [censored], Kevin Costner?
Sorry, synthetics come from ground just the same as dino oils, nothing on this planet is "man made", everything we produce comes from something and most of it is from ground.
We’re not at the fusion reactor and replicator level yet, so wee need to keep digging.
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Originally Posted By: Garak
Whether or not the ethanol is a requirement has been debated before, here. Some claim it's open to interpretation.
It sounds from your post that, instead of the Top Tier rules being open to interpretation, you have a local regulation that allows the fuel to be sold differently. This probably could be the case in many jurisdictions.
Whether or not the ethanol is a requirement has been debated before, here. Some claim it's open to interpretation.
It sounds from your post that, instead of the Top Tier rules being open to interpretation, you have a local regulation that allows the fuel to be sold differently. This probably could be the case in many jurisdictions.
i recently replaced the plugs in my '04 accord ex i4 5-manual with 70,000 miles. i pulled a dtc p0420 and replaced both o2 sensors and so decided to do the plugs as well, even though i was well before the 110,000 mile interval. really, the old plugs looked fine.
with the old plugs removed, i took a flexible flashlight and peered into each cylinder. there was carbon on the tops of all the pistons, but it was thin, and i could see bare metal in a few spots. the engine runs great, and i average 28-31 mpg in mixed 50/50 city/highway driving. my typical commute is between 9 and 14 miles one way, about half of which is on the highway.
the valvetrain is pristine from what i can tell through the oil fill hole. for the last 35,000 miles or so i have been doing my own oil changes with pp 5w-20 and a pureone filter at 5k oci. before that it was kendall gt-1 synthetic blend with an unknown filter at a service shop at 5k oci.
i have driven the car "softly" from new, meaning i'm not hard on the accelerator and shift generally before 3500rpm. i try to combine trips to minimize cold starts. i also employ some hypermiling techniques like coasting in gear to stops and trying to anticipate red lights. i've used shell 87 only for the last 40,000 miles and before that mobil 87.
i have some gumout regane that i'll run fairly soon but it will mean cutting my oci in half because of it. before that i'll run a few tanks of v-power. when it's all said and done i'll take another peek at the piston heads to see if there was any appreciable change in appearance.
i'm curious if there is a normal range for carbon build-up on the piston heads. i have some on a '93 miata with 107,500 miles. it also runs fine and gets good gas mileage.
i laud the op for planning to keep his van for 20 years. i hope to do the same with this accord, which i consider to be an exemplary automobile.
with the old plugs removed, i took a flexible flashlight and peered into each cylinder. there was carbon on the tops of all the pistons, but it was thin, and i could see bare metal in a few spots. the engine runs great, and i average 28-31 mpg in mixed 50/50 city/highway driving. my typical commute is between 9 and 14 miles one way, about half of which is on the highway.
the valvetrain is pristine from what i can tell through the oil fill hole. for the last 35,000 miles or so i have been doing my own oil changes with pp 5w-20 and a pureone filter at 5k oci. before that it was kendall gt-1 synthetic blend with an unknown filter at a service shop at 5k oci.
i have driven the car "softly" from new, meaning i'm not hard on the accelerator and shift generally before 3500rpm. i try to combine trips to minimize cold starts. i also employ some hypermiling techniques like coasting in gear to stops and trying to anticipate red lights. i've used shell 87 only for the last 40,000 miles and before that mobil 87.
i have some gumout regane that i'll run fairly soon but it will mean cutting my oci in half because of it. before that i'll run a few tanks of v-power. when it's all said and done i'll take another peek at the piston heads to see if there was any appreciable change in appearance.
i'm curious if there is a normal range for carbon build-up on the piston heads. i have some on a '93 miata with 107,500 miles. it also runs fine and gets good gas mileage.
i laud the op for planning to keep his van for 20 years. i hope to do the same with this accord, which i consider to be an exemplary automobile.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
It sounds from your post that, instead of the Top Tier rules being open to interpretation, you have a local regulation that allows the fuel to be sold differently. This probably could be the case in many jurisdictions.
Quite possible. From the petroleum companies' perspectives, it can't be easy to formulate fuel for North America when every province and state has different requirements.
It sounds from your post that, instead of the Top Tier rules being open to interpretation, you have a local regulation that allows the fuel to be sold differently. This probably could be the case in many jurisdictions.
Quite possible. From the petroleum companies' perspectives, it can't be easy to formulate fuel for North America when every province and state has different requirements.
E10 is required in many areas of the USA.
In my case.....driving 2 counties away to fill up on non-E10 would more than offset any MPG gain that I might get from the fuel.
As mentioned, it is not as bad as some folks claim.
It seems that it can be an issue in situations where the fuel is left in storage in humid locations for extended periods of time......like a boat.
However, with the vapor recovery systems on modern vehicles (which semi-seals it from the outside environment), it is not as much of an issue in vehicles.
If you want to go with Mobil 1, go for it.
You might ask what oil they are using at the dealership doing your service.
The Toyota (Denso) filters are also well regarded.......you have a filter cartridge on your 2010 Sienna.
My opinion only......if you plan to hang onto your vehicle for a long time......don't try to set any records in your OCI and use a quality oil (of the viscosity listed for your vehicle) and filter.
Also keep up on the other routine maintenance, tranny fluid, air filter, power steering fluid, brake fluid, coolant..........
In my case.....driving 2 counties away to fill up on non-E10 would more than offset any MPG gain that I might get from the fuel.
As mentioned, it is not as bad as some folks claim.
It seems that it can be an issue in situations where the fuel is left in storage in humid locations for extended periods of time......like a boat.
However, with the vapor recovery systems on modern vehicles (which semi-seals it from the outside environment), it is not as much of an issue in vehicles.
If you want to go with Mobil 1, go for it.
You might ask what oil they are using at the dealership doing your service.
The Toyota (Denso) filters are also well regarded.......you have a filter cartridge on your 2010 Sienna.
My opinion only......if you plan to hang onto your vehicle for a long time......don't try to set any records in your OCI and use a quality oil (of the viscosity listed for your vehicle) and filter.
Also keep up on the other routine maintenance, tranny fluid, air filter, power steering fluid, brake fluid, coolant..........
Originally Posted By: wiswind
You might ask what oil they are using at the dealership doing your service.
The Toyota (Denso) filters are also well regarded.......you have a filter cartridge on your 2010 Sienna.
My opinion only......if you plan to hang onto your vehicle for a long time......don't try to set any records in your OCI and use a quality oil (of the viscosity listed for your vehicle) and filter.
Also keep up on the other routine maintenance, tranny fluid, air filter, power steering fluid, brake fluid, coolant..........
Great advice. I believe they will use "Toyota Genuine oil" (not sure what brand, but it's dino), so if the price difference isn't too high, I'll ask for M1.
Yes, I will use the specified viscosity until I run into issues, which may be a while. These are my first two vehicles to buy brand new, the other two had 70k and 120k on them when I bought them, so it's nice to be able to take care of them the way I want and see exactly how long they can last.
BTW, any certain amount of time interval for changing PS fluid and coolant? I believe coolant is like 90K in both of my vehicles...
You might ask what oil they are using at the dealership doing your service.
The Toyota (Denso) filters are also well regarded.......you have a filter cartridge on your 2010 Sienna.
My opinion only......if you plan to hang onto your vehicle for a long time......don't try to set any records in your OCI and use a quality oil (of the viscosity listed for your vehicle) and filter.
Also keep up on the other routine maintenance, tranny fluid, air filter, power steering fluid, brake fluid, coolant..........
Great advice. I believe they will use "Toyota Genuine oil" (not sure what brand, but it's dino), so if the price difference isn't too high, I'll ask for M1.
Yes, I will use the specified viscosity until I run into issues, which may be a while. These are my first two vehicles to buy brand new, the other two had 70k and 120k on them when I bought them, so it's nice to be able to take care of them the way I want and see exactly how long they can last.
BTW, any certain amount of time interval for changing PS fluid and coolant? I believe coolant is like 90K in both of my vehicles...
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