228.51 oil in BMW/VW diesels?

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What do you all think about using Delvac 1 LE 5W30:
http://www.mobil.com/Italy-English/Lubes/PDS/glxxencvlmomobil_delvac_1_le_5w-30.pdf

in an 09 BMW X5 35d (with urea/DPF, calls for LL04) and an 09 VW Jetta TDI (DPF, no urea, calls for 507)?
The Delvac is rated MB228.51.
MB approves this oil for their Bluetec (DPF + urea) car engines. Check Sheet 223.2, p.3:
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolistenmain.php?session_id=&navigation_path=&language_id=1

It is 1.0% ash instead of 0.8% for C3 but only 800ppm P, similar to C3.
I am underwhelmed with the TBN lack of retention using Castrol OE Professional 5W30 in the BMW. The TBN was more than exhausted at 11600 miles; 6-7000 mil would be a safer OCI. I predict I could go 14-15K with the D1.

I realize I would lose 20% DPF clogging life.
I am trying to get 5X20L from a Mobil jobber in Scotland.

Charlie
 
I wouldn't. You can easily move to M1 ESP 5w-30 and not have to worry about it since it's LL04. Valvoline also sells a LL04 5w-30. You can also try Total INEO MC3 5w-30, as well as all the Motul, and Pentosin LL04 oils.

From what I've read TBN doesn't have to be has high in the diesels due to the lack of ethanol and the ultra low sulphur fuel.

Best bet would be to stick with OEM Castrol and to 7.5k mile OCI's or maybe try the M1 product for 10k miles and see how that does. Afterall why mess with a sure thing?
 
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
From what I've read TBN doesn't have to be has high in the diesels due to the lack of ethanol and the ultra low sulphur fuel.


After 11600 miles, only 300 miles over the recommneded OCI, TBN was 1.5, TAN was a very alarming 4.83.
IMHO C3 oils are a major compromise to keep ash and phosphorus levels low. One can live with P = 800ppm, but in order to make ash ~0.6% the oils seem to have very little acid neutralizing capacity. Remember the X5 35d burns about 30% more fuel than the 335d so the acidity will build proportionately faster.
The D1 LE has
Charlie
 
I cannot see how it would be "bad", though I could see a warranty issue. Might want voas of both oils to discern the practical differences in the typical chemistry...
 
If it is approved for use in the Mercedes with DPF's, that would make me more comfortable using in the similar BMW, except for the warranty issue. How difficult or expensive would it be to get some of the Mobil 5W-30 ESP to try for a couple oci's?
 
Not easy to get. As I said I'm trying to get some from the UK. And I think it comes in 20L jugs.
But my confidence in the dealer oil isn't high. I think in the X5 35d application (21.5mpg city driving) it's good for 6-8000 mi at most.
Oil stress can be measured in MW-hr/L oil. Figuring 21.5 mpg and 210 gm/KW-h, this oil was used about 1.05 MW-h/L, counting 1 qt makeup and doing the calcs in my head. Considering the TBN was only 1.5 but the TAN had climbed to 4.83, I'd guess it's really OK for only 0.7 MW-h/L.
That's disappointing, ACEA E4 engine tests stress oil 5.3-5.4 MW-h/L (OM364LA, OM441LA). (SAE Technical Article 2000-01-1986, "Similarities and Differences Between ACEA E3, E4, and E5....")

The D1 LE 5W30 has E4/228.5/51 ratings, so it should really endure.

Charlie
 
I'd try the VW 507.00 oil. The Castrol you have mentioned (SLX Professional OE) is their 505.01 oil. Go to a dealer and get the SLX Professional LL-03, this is the 507.00 product. They're two completely different applications.

There is a difference between the specs. Whether the 507.00 will prove to have better TBN retention than the 505.01 remains to be seen.

I personally use the Mobil 5W-30 ESP in my TDI which you should be able to get through a Mobil oil jobber up there. It's MB 229.31 and 229.51, bmw LL04, and VW 507.00 approved.
 
I'm not using the Castrol in the VW. I was planning on M1 ESP Formula 5W30 in both, but I doubt it will be any better on the TBN than the Castrol, because it has a very low ash level (0.6%). Significantly lower than the upper limit for ACEA C3 (0.8%). I'd guess the starting TBN is 6.4.
The TBN retention issue has so far just surfaced with the BMW, I haven't done a UOA on the VW yet. I only drive the VW month. My wife drives the BMW 1400mi/month.

Charlie
 
I'm not sold on the tbn retention of the 507 m1 oil in a gasser getting 29 mpg, not sure I'd be confident about it in an x5 given burn rate.
 
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
From what I've read TBN doesn't have to be has high in the diesels due to the lack of ethanol and the ultra low sulphur fuel.


After 11600 miles, only 300 miles over the recommneded OCI, TBN was 1.5, TAN was a very alarming 4.83.
IMHO C3 oils are a major compromise to keep ash and phosphorus levels low. One can live with P = 800ppm, but in order to make ash ~0.6% the oils seem to have very little acid neutralizing capacity. Remember the X5 35d burns about 30% more fuel than the 335d so the acidity will build proportionately faster.
The D1 LE has
Charlie


Which is why I suggested a shorter OCI atleast while under warranty. How long was your last OCI in terms of months? Remember you can always get one done at 1 yr or when the OBC states it's time, whichever is less. In any case, I wouldn't assume more ash equals slightly better. M1 ESP 5w-30 is also 228.31 and it's ash content is .63%. Just a thought.
 
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This OCI was about 7 months.
M1 ESP is 229.31/51; it has no 228 rating.
An average 228.31 oil would have too much S, P and ash.

Charlie
 
Originally Posted By: m37charlie

M1 ESP is 229.31/51; it has no 228 rating.


you are correct!
 
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Valveoline Syn Power MST that is MBenz approved at 229.51 has a SA rating of 1.26 in the 5W40 weight oil.

I think you and others get way to hung up on the SA content. One needs to look at the overall make up of an oil ( HTHS , VOLATILITY, VISCOSITY, etc ) . and go with what makes you comfortable.

For one to say that the DPF will suffer a loss of use sooner @ 20 percent SA oil rating is not coherent thinking , and I expect coherent thinking from this board not emotional I love my car speak .
 
Originally Posted By: badnews
Valveoline Syn Power MST that is MBenz approved at 229.51 has a SA rating of 1.26 in the 5W40 weight oil.

I think you and others get way to hung up on the SA content. One needs to look at the overall make up of an oil ( HTHS , VOLATILITY, VISCOSITY, etc ) . and go with what makes you comfortable.

For one to say that the DPF will suffer a loss of use sooner @ 20 percent SA oil rating is not coherent thinking , and I expect coherent thinking from this board not emotional I love my car speak .


MST is 0.78, HST is 1.26.

http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/SynPower.pdf
 
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I was speaking of the HST
 
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