I recently discovered Kubota says no CJ-4 rated oil in my 07 diesel zero-turn because it is a non-egr style engine. What's the difference in CI-4 and CJ-4? I've been using HDD5w-30(CI-4) so I have been ok. Looks as if the Rotella Syn's are all CJ-4 rated.
No CJ-4 in 07 Kubota?
- Thread starter 05ChevyI5
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Sorry, forgot the link.
www.kubota.com/f/support/greasesched.cfm
www.kubota.com/f/support/greasesched.cfm
That's a pretty ambiguous recommendation. I suspect they may mean use no CJ-4 if you are using LSD. The CJ-4 is a generally more modern formulation, usually with better base oils. It's a bit lower in ZDDP than CI-4+ but with more (and better) dispersants and detergents. The initial TBN is lower, but the CJ-4 seem able to retain a higher number longer. Some engine manufacturers recommended a shorter OCI with CJ-4 back when it was introduced in '06 but it looks like, in most cases, that was an overabundance of caution.
In any case, CJ-4 has proven backwards compatible generally. Many of us use it in older engines, me included (in two diesel tractors and a diesel pickup). Based on my experience, I really don't think any disastrous consequences will follow from using CJ-4 in your Kubota and it's the most compatible with ULSD. CI-4 is still made by Shell in the Rotella line, but more often found in 5-gallon pails than in gallons or quarts.
In any case, CJ-4 has proven backwards compatible generally. Many of us use it in older engines, me included (in two diesel tractors and a diesel pickup). Based on my experience, I really don't think any disastrous consequences will follow from using CJ-4 in your Kubota and it's the most compatible with ULSD. CI-4 is still made by Shell in the Rotella line, but more often found in 5-gallon pails than in gallons or quarts.
Originally Posted By: 05ChevyI5
Sorry, forgot the link.
www.kubota.com/f/support/greasesched.cfm
Oh my, you're giving me Kubota oil flashbacks. My buddy picked up a Kubota around the same vintage and we went through the same fiasco.
At first blush, I told him to toss in some JD or Rotella 15w-40 and not worry about it. Then I saw that sheet, and said use 15w-40, or 10w-30 Rotella or JD if he could find it and not worry about it. He went the Royal Purple route. Their HDEO matched the specifications he wanted, at an obvious price premium over Rotella or JD. I highly doubt the engine would know the difference.
You should have seen his face when he had to pop for $9 for the Wix filter, at my discounted rate. Turns out, it's cross referenced to a Lexus or Infiniti or some such thing.
Sorry, forgot the link.
www.kubota.com/f/support/greasesched.cfm
Oh my, you're giving me Kubota oil flashbacks. My buddy picked up a Kubota around the same vintage and we went through the same fiasco.
At first blush, I told him to toss in some JD or Rotella 15w-40 and not worry about it. Then I saw that sheet, and said use 15w-40, or 10w-30 Rotella or JD if he could find it and not worry about it. He went the Royal Purple route. Their HDEO matched the specifications he wanted, at an obvious price premium over Rotella or JD. I highly doubt the engine would know the difference.
You should have seen his face when he had to pop for $9 for the Wix filter, at my discounted rate. Turns out, it's cross referenced to a Lexus or Infiniti or some such thing.
I have three Kubotas. All are the 2003 vintage and have been the best tractors by far that I have ever had. Mine are still running some CI-4+ oil that I had stocked up. When that's done I won't hesitate to run CJ-4 in it. Kubota still specs oil that was out-dated in the 90s so I am not sure how they feel that CJ-4 won't get the job done.
dnewton3
Staff member
I'm out of warranty on my L3430GST. I guess I'm living by a prayer, because I'm running Rotella 10w-30 in CJ-4. Yes, I sleep well at night, even committing this heresy.
All the major players in the diesel compact/utility tractor market (Deere, Kubota, Case, NH, etc) make engines that will likely run forever. I fully understand and admit that pure neglect will kill any equipment. But these are robust little engines (Kubota, Yanmar, Shibaru, etc) and the mere fact that they have some fluid resembling oil will typically make them run "well enough".
If you all knew what total poo-oil was run in equipment in many third world countries, for OCIs that would make most of us faint, you'd not worry over this so much. Both my sister and a friend seperately toured Africa and some "less developed" countries. I asked them to take note of some of their vehicle experiences and they relayed some horrifying common "local practices".
The choice between CH, CI and CJ matters not in the anal-retentive BITOG world of compulsive OCIs for your buddy's Kubbie.
All the major players in the diesel compact/utility tractor market (Deere, Kubota, Case, NH, etc) make engines that will likely run forever. I fully understand and admit that pure neglect will kill any equipment. But these are robust little engines (Kubota, Yanmar, Shibaru, etc) and the mere fact that they have some fluid resembling oil will typically make them run "well enough".
If you all knew what total poo-oil was run in equipment in many third world countries, for OCIs that would make most of us faint, you'd not worry over this so much. Both my sister and a friend seperately toured Africa and some "less developed" countries. I asked them to take note of some of their vehicle experiences and they relayed some horrifying common "local practices".
The choice between CH, CI and CJ matters not in the anal-retentive BITOG world of compulsive OCIs for your buddy's Kubbie.
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I'm out of warranty on my L3430GST. I guess I'm living by a prayer, because I'm running Rotella 10w-30 in CJ-4. Yes, I sleep well at night, even committing this heresy.
You're not worried about the ticking time bomb under the hood?
After my suggestions didn't meet my friend's complete approval, I suggested he go to the Kubota dealership and see what they sell, or what they'd put in if they did the service for him. I believe it's a combined dealership up here, so there's a good chance they have Rotella and/or JD on the shelves and in the service bays.
He doesn't realize that it's a lot easier for an engineer to draft specifications than it is for service managers to do the logistics. Then, supervising a staff is another issue. Approving a warranty claim where the oil wasn't absolutely to specs is probably a lot less hassle than it would be to have the service techs read the owner's manual before each oil change and compare that to the specs on the bottle.
So, as I mentioned, he went for Royal Purple.... In a lawnmower.... That gets maybe 20 hours per year.... For which he intends to do an annual OCI.... Oh boy.
I'm out of warranty on my L3430GST. I guess I'm living by a prayer, because I'm running Rotella 10w-30 in CJ-4. Yes, I sleep well at night, even committing this heresy.
You're not worried about the ticking time bomb under the hood?
After my suggestions didn't meet my friend's complete approval, I suggested he go to the Kubota dealership and see what they sell, or what they'd put in if they did the service for him. I believe it's a combined dealership up here, so there's a good chance they have Rotella and/or JD on the shelves and in the service bays.
He doesn't realize that it's a lot easier for an engineer to draft specifications than it is for service managers to do the logistics. Then, supervising a staff is another issue. Approving a warranty claim where the oil wasn't absolutely to specs is probably a lot less hassle than it would be to have the service techs read the owner's manual before each oil change and compare that to the specs on the bottle.
So, as I mentioned, he went for Royal Purple.... In a lawnmower.... That gets maybe 20 hours per year.... For which he intends to do an annual OCI.... Oh boy.
dnewton3
Staff member
Yes, the reality is that all these little diesel engines will run out of warranty LONG before oil brand/grade/cert would be an issue. Even if one used a poor choice for oil, the 3 year warranty for the Kubie would be gone, and then Kubota has no issue with what you used, because it's your dime.
I suspect that it's simply cheaper for them to stick with former specs that have been validated in their labs, rather than constantly up their criteria with each iteration of API advancement. They know that the oil system is robust enough to far outlast the warranty, so they have little motivation to change the spec.
That could all change at some point, perhaps in the near future. When the ULSD goes full course in off-road equipment use (no more LSD available) and DPF makes it's way into smaller off-road equipment (and who's to say it won't???), then CJ-4 (or perhaps CK-4 by then) will make Kubota, and others, dance to the same fiddler that the on-road OEMs have to deal with.
As I recall, I'm on my forth year of Rotella CJ-4 10w-30 HDEO OCIs in my Kub. Just for fun, I might pull a UOA this fall. We'll just see how much "damage" I'm doing by going off the reservation by going out of "spec" with CJ-4. Would be nice to see if someone had some "in cert" UOAs for comparison.
I suspect that it's simply cheaper for them to stick with former specs that have been validated in their labs, rather than constantly up their criteria with each iteration of API advancement. They know that the oil system is robust enough to far outlast the warranty, so they have little motivation to change the spec.
That could all change at some point, perhaps in the near future. When the ULSD goes full course in off-road equipment use (no more LSD available) and DPF makes it's way into smaller off-road equipment (and who's to say it won't???), then CJ-4 (or perhaps CK-4 by then) will make Kubota, and others, dance to the same fiddler that the on-road OEMs have to deal with.
As I recall, I'm on my forth year of Rotella CJ-4 10w-30 HDEO OCIs in my Kub. Just for fun, I might pull a UOA this fall. We'll just see how much "damage" I'm doing by going off the reservation by going out of "spec" with CJ-4. Would be nice to see if someone had some "in cert" UOAs for comparison.
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
As I recall, I'm on my forth year of Rotella CJ-4 10w-30 HDEO OCIs in my Kub. Just for fun, I might pull a UOA this fall. We'll just see how much "damage" I'm doing by going off the reservation by going out of "spec" with CJ-4. Would be nice to see if someone had some "in cert" UOAs for comparison.
Maybe I can grab a sample when he changes out his Royal Purple this fall after his grueling twenty hours of service.
As I recall, I'm on my forth year of Rotella CJ-4 10w-30 HDEO OCIs in my Kub. Just for fun, I might pull a UOA this fall. We'll just see how much "damage" I'm doing by going off the reservation by going out of "spec" with CJ-4. Would be nice to see if someone had some "in cert" UOAs for comparison.
Maybe I can grab a sample when he changes out his Royal Purple this fall after his grueling twenty hours of service.
Originally Posted By: 05ChevyI5
On a side note, Are you guys runnin' Kubota OIL filters or aftermarkets? I've been forced to used napa gold's(1334) because of price and the fact my dealer is a long haul.
My buddy used the Wix. The Kubota dealer was clear across town from where he could get the Wix, and I can get the Wix for him at a discount.
On a side note, Are you guys runnin' Kubota OIL filters or aftermarkets? I've been forced to used napa gold's(1334) because of price and the fact my dealer is a long haul.
My buddy used the Wix. The Kubota dealer was clear across town from where he could get the Wix, and I can get the Wix for him at a discount.
EAOs,Balwins,and Donaldsons for me.
dnewton3
Staff member
I use Wix/NG from fleetfitler.
No issues whatsoever.
No issues whatsoever.
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we use fleetguard filters in our kubota
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
That could all change at some point, perhaps in the near future. When the ULSD goes full course in off-road equipment use (no more LSD available) and DPF makes it's way into smaller off-road equipment (and who's to say it won't???), then CJ-4 (or perhaps CK-4 by then) will make Kubota, and others, dance to the same fiddler that the on-road OEMs have to deal with.
Your intuition is correct. Already, the talk around here is that, soon, the ag tractors are going to have DPF and SCR required before long. Some farmers in my area are already talking about "pre-buys" like the truck owners did when the emissions standards changed.
That could all change at some point, perhaps in the near future. When the ULSD goes full course in off-road equipment use (no more LSD available) and DPF makes it's way into smaller off-road equipment (and who's to say it won't???), then CJ-4 (or perhaps CK-4 by then) will make Kubota, and others, dance to the same fiddler that the on-road OEMs have to deal with.
Your intuition is correct. Already, the talk around here is that, soon, the ag tractors are going to have DPF and SCR required before long. Some farmers in my area are already talking about "pre-buys" like the truck owners did when the emissions standards changed.
CJ-4 replaces all previous specs and is retro-active so i think they have it backwards... it meets all previous C specs..
Their probable reasoning is the higher sulfur content in the LSD off-road fuel will use up the additives quickly & deplete TBN quickly-around these parts off-road is all ULSD already.
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